Parental approval for immigration

[mrsjohnsonscat 7]

A question: I know that there has to be parental 'sign off' before a child is allowed to leave the country. Her ex' has signed for the daughter, but not the son. He's willing to sign, but his sister who recently had a hysterectomy and has now lost any chance of having children, has decided for him that the boy needs to stay next to the family. Unfortunately the father is a living, breathing stereotype of Russian men, so he's pretty much doing what he's told for his next drink or fix...at least for now.

Anyway, I included both children on the I-129f and the interview is in around a week. Chances are her son won't be able to come over with her and will have come over later. My question is, does he still have to go to the visa interview with her, even though he's not coming over at this time? He's six.

Thanks

[mox 298]

If you want him included, then yes, he needs to be at the interview:

Children immigrating with you must also be present at the interview.

http://moscow.usembassy.gov/fiancee.html

I know it reads "immigrating with you," but I wouldn't try to read too much into it. At the very least see if you can talk him into just letting the son go to the interview. You can work out the other details later.

You know...a nice monetary donation to a pocket of her ex's choice might help change his mind. But be careful, because when children are involved it could just as easily backfire.

Edited January 9, 2010 by mox

[mrsjohnsonscat 7]

I wish it was that simple.

It's not him, it's his sister and money won't grease that wheel. I'm hoping once the trauma of the hysterectomy fades, she'll accept that she over stepping her bounds here and let the boy go...but that's a battle for another day.

As far as the interview goes, she won't have a problem getting her son to the interview. Our concern is that, won't the consul ask for the paperwork to show that he (the son) has permission to leave, before they give the visa to him? I know she won't be able to get the paperwork before then.

[slim 1,514]

won't the consul ask for the paperwork to show that he (the son) has permission to leave, before they give the visa to him? I know she won't be able to get the paperwork before then.

He won't be granted a visa if he's not there.

If I was a CO, I'd have to wonder why a mother who's been applied for couldn't bring both children. Do they have different fathers? Then I'd start wondering about the motivation of the mother....

Not trying to raise the drama here, but just saying, some questions can logically come out of this situation. If she's not going to be able to bring one of the kids, she needs to figure out a good story why.

[Neonred 3,454]

Even if the boy attends the interview, if he is not traveling to the US within a few months (I think less than 6 months) of his mother they may ask for him to come back for a second interview close to the date he will travel. We went through this with my wife's daughter and her K-2.

[mrsjohnsonscat 7]

He won't be granted a visa if he's not there.

If I was a CO, I'd have to wonder why a mother who's been applied for couldn't bring both children. Do they have different fathers? Then I'd start wondering about the motivation of the mother....

Not trying to raise the drama here, but just saying, some questions can logically come out of this situation. If she's not going to be able to bring one of the kids, she needs to figure out a good story why.

What drama? I'm assuming that the CO knows how the world operates and that children are used as tools and weapons. The sister wants children, she can't have any now. The daughter is only two years old and is too much work, so she doesn't want her; so she can go. The father made promises and now at the end has broken them, because he's a junkie and that's what they do. His sister is keeping him alive, she wants to be paid; he's paying her with the only thing he has of value and the one thing she wants.

####### like this happens everyday in divorced families, children used as bargining chips and I would like to think that any person who has to deal with the messiness of people's lives on any kind of regular basis would know that and not think to the motivation of person who's stuck in Hobson's choice.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your advice, we'll see what happens.

[mox 298]

The father made promises and now at the end has broken them, because he's a junkie and that's what they do.

I hate to advocate pulling somebody further into the depths of that kind of madness, and I know you said a bribe won't cut it, but it seems to me like you've got a lot of leverage on the father, given his condition. The day before travel, a $500 donation to his habit in exchange for his permission letter seems almost foolproof to me.

Anyway, it's a terrible situation, and I wish you both luck in getting it resolved. Keep us informed if you don't mind.

[mrsjohnsonscat 7]

Will do.

[Kailey 3]

I think this paper is not a prerequisite anymore to get K1. I either read the list wrong or i just can't see it among the necessary documents. She only must bring the documents from the list.

Also I would think that if she only has one Consent, let her not show it at all so that not to be asked ‘where is the second one?’. If she is asked for these papers – she will have to tell the truth. But don't volunteer unnecessary information in your case.

I think the point where the woman might really need this ‘sign off’ will be the passport control at Domodedovo or Sheremetyevo II. At the same time - kids leaving with only one divorced parent has been a long discussed issue in this country and a general answer to such requests is: Russian law says that “as a rule an underage child travels abroad with at least one of the parent”. Period. It's nowhere said that he/she can't do it w/out a permission of the second parent. And officers know it very well too.

The only problem that can arise - the officers know that k1 means a very high probability of later immigration, and they can hook them on that. But again - talk to a lawyer, I think unless they meet some very nerdy officer they should be allowed to go.

The only way the other parent can stop his kids from leaving (this is what the law says) – she/he can apply to a court and get a legal decision that will prevent kids from leaving. But again, it's not an easily obtained thing because he will have to start the case and prove it and go to the court.

Do a simple thing - let her go to a local lawyer. As I said - this 'consent to departure' is a pain for years but sometimes there are more fears and rumors around it.

You still have a chance to go a long road - try to deprive him of his parental rights. If he doesn't offer financial help (and that allowance that father must pay after divorce is not considered as 'financial help', btw. It's just an obligation. If he doesn't pay even this one - even better), doesn't see his child, doesn't take care of him and she has witnesses who will come to the court and prove it (teachers, kindergarden staff, neighbors) - she can win the case w/out much trouble. But as i said it's a long way to go and definitely forum advice is not enough but a lawyer's help will be required.

Good luck and may all these troubles only make your relationship stronger.

[baron555 934]

A question: I know that there has to be parental 'sign off' before a child is allowed to leave the country. Her ex' has signed for the daughter, but not the son. He's willing to sign, but his sister who recently had a hysterectomy and has now lost any chance of having children, has decided for him that the boy needs to stay next to the family. Unfortunately the father is a living, breathing stereotype of Russian men, so he's pretty much doing what he's told for his next drink or fix...at least for now.

Anyway, I included both children on the I-129f and the interview is in around a week. Chances are her son won't be able to come over with her and will have come over later. My question is, does he still have to go to the visa interview with her, even though he's not coming over at this time? He's six.

Thanks

No, you list any children listed on the I=129F that intend to come over with you or to follow within a year. If the boy is not coming at all, you don't list him on the DS-156K. For the Moscow Embassy, you have to download this form from the Embassy website (it will also be sent in the packet from the Embassy) since this form, for Russia only, is in Russian and completed in Russian.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

A question: I know that there has to be parental 'sign off' before a child is allowed to leave the country. Her ex' has signed for the daughter, but not the son. He's willing to sign, but his sister who recently had a hysterectomy and has now lost any chance of having children, has decided for him that the boy needs to stay next to the family. Unfortunately the father is a living, breathing stereotype of Russian men, so he's pretty much doing what he's told for his next drink or fix...at least for now.

Anyway, I included both children on the I-129f and the interview is in around a week. Chances are her son won't be able to come over with her and will have come over later. My question is, does he still have to go to the visa interview with her, even though he's not coming over at this time? He's six.

Thanks

If he is not applying fr a visa at this time...no. we brought our children here separately because of school issues, and the first interview was Alla and one son, then the other came 10 months later. Not a problem IF it is within one year of the issuance of her visa. He alsi is not included in your family size for the I-134. You will submit another I-134 later for him and then it will include all of you.

Some tips to consifder

1. If he is over age 16 he does not need the father's permission. If he will turn 16 within the next year he would not need the father's permission for a k-2 to follow.

2. Typical Russian man response, bribe him. He will throw his sister under the bus for the equivilent of a month's pay for us, or even less. The father of my wifes son (only one need permission, the other was already over age 16) eagerly signed off when she offered to drop any past, present or future child support (which he wasn't paying anyway) Everything in Russia is for sale, you just need to find the right price.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think this paper is not a prerequisite anymore to get K1. I either read the list wrong or i just can't see it among the necessary documents. She only must bring the documents from the list.

Also I would think that if she only has one Consent, let her not show it at all so that not to be asked ‘where is the second one?’. If she is asked for these papers – she will have to tell the truth. But don't volunteer unnecessary information in your case.

I think the point where the woman might really need this ‘sign off’ will be the passport control at Domodedovo or Sheremetyevo II. At the same time - kids leaving with only one divorced parent has been a long discussed issue in this country and a general answer to such requests is: Russian law says that “as a rule an underage child travels abroad with at least one of the parent”. Period. It's nowhere said that he/she can't do it w/out a permission of the second parent. And officers know it very well too.

The only problem that can arise - the officers know that k1 means a very high probability of later immigration, and they can hook them on that. But again - talk to a lawyer, I think unless they meet some very nerdy officer they should be allowed to go.

The only way the other parent can stop his kids from leaving (this is what the law says) – she/he can apply to a court and get a legal decision that will prevent kids from leaving. But again, it's not an easily obtained thing because he will have to start the case and prove it and go to the court.

Do a simple thing - let her go to a local lawyer. As I said - this 'consent to departure' is a pain for years but sometimes there are more fears and rumors around it.

You still have a chance to go a long road - try to deprive him of his parental rights. If he doesn't offer financial help (and that allowance that father must pay after divorce is not considered as 'financial help', btw. It's just an obligation. If he doesn't pay even this one - even better), doesn't see his child, doesn't take care of him and she has witnesses who will come to the court and prove it (teachers, kindergarden staff, neighbors) - she can win the case w/out much trouble. But as i said it's a long way to go and definitely forum advice is not enough but a lawyer's help will be required.

Good luck and may all these troubles only make your relationship stronger.

The permission letter IS absolutely required by the US consulate to issue a visa to a child under 16 years of age. The only other acceptable alternative is a court order granting the mother full sole custody and transport privileges OR a death certificate of the father.

One other option is that IF the father is not listed on the birth certifcate, she can get a "certificate of no father" from ZAGS and get by with that

I hate to advocate pulling somebody further into the depths of that kind of madness, and I know you said a bribe won't cut it, but it seems to me like you've got a lot of leverage on the father, given his condition. The day before travel, a $500 donation to his habit in exchange for his permission letter seems almost foolproof to me.

Anyway, it's a terrible situation, and I wish you both luck in getting it resolved. Keep us informed if you don't mind.

I promise you...a bribe WILL cut it. Call it a donation if you will and determine the amount, but it WILL work.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

He won't be granted a visa if he's not there.

If I was a CO, I'd have to wonder why a mother who's been applied for couldn't bring both children. Do they have different fathers? Then I'd start wondering about the motivation of the mother....

Not trying to raise the drama here, but just saying, some questions can logically come out of this situation. If she's not going to be able to bring one of the kids, she needs to figure out a good story why.

No drama Slim. The father gave permission for the girl and not the boy. The consulate doesn't care about that. we went to the interview with an application for one son (and permission letter) and not the other. No questions asked. Happens all the time.

If the OP doesn't get both of them there at the same time, then list the other one on her Ds-156 as "to follow" qnd make an appointment for him (within one year) when you are ready.

Simply bribe the father. Get the letter prepared for him to sign. It should be notarized and you need a copy of his internal or international passport photo and signature page also. Make sure all of that is available and you have all of that before you hand over any cash. We had a "signing party" at an attorney's office (attorneys are relatively cheap also) and my wife signed the motion ending child support at the same timehe signed the letter granting permission. MAKE SURE you get what you need before any cash is exchanged.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I wish it was that simple.

It's not him, it's his sister and money won't grease that wheel. I'm hoping once the trauma of the hysterectomy fades, she'll accept that she over stepping her bounds here and let the boy go...but that's a battle for another day.

As far as the interview goes, she won't have a problem getting her son to the interview. Our concern is that, won't the consul ask for the paperwork to show that he (the son) has permission to leave, before they give the visa to him? I know she won't be able to get the paperwork before then.

Here are the facts. His ister has nothing to say in this, you do not need permission from her. He will toss her right under the trolley bus for the right price. Fortunately the economy of Russia makes bribery a very affordable option. Pay him off and he will handle his sister all by himself

Yes, they will ask for the letter. Kiev is notorious for being easy, but let me tell you, they STUDIED the permission letter we gave them, and the guy collecting documents even called his supervisor to review it before he accepted it. YES they will need that letter

[Kailey 3]

Gary, where is it written that a written permission is 'absolutely required' to issue K1/K2?