REALLY NEED HELP ON THIS ONE

[Ban Hammer 14,268]

Interesting linkabout Mel Harris

based on that link (good find btw) this is starting to sound like a scam

[JAYKE 0]

It would appear that if there is a lien on your account, that this is past the collections stage and actually already went through the court. There needs to be a legal document ordering your assets were frozen. If you weren't in the country, then they couldn't serve you suit papers. You need to find out from this attorney if there was in fact a judgement rendered and through which court as you will need copy of the decision; if so, you'd need to appeal through the courts. If not, they can attach your wages when you return to work here in the states. I'd check with your ex as well; he may have been served papers on the matter.

Good luck.

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

OMFG..it gets better and better doesnt it???? #######??? I will call my ex asap...this is outrageous...Thank you soooooooo much guys for the help. I will let you know what happens..

LJ

[Widge 0]

Many of you with credit card problems will readily recognize the names “Slamowitz” (recently Cohen & Slamowitz) and “Mel S. Harris.” These are two very aggressive firms with many attorneys working under them. I believe both are still located in NYC.

Their tactics to contact and engage you in argument and/or payment are riddled with fraud. So much so, that if you take it to them, in writing, you will likely never hear from them again.

I want to make it clear that this, as with nearly every interaction with any/all government entities, should be handled with the best disposition you can muster. It’s so easy to get mighty pissed at these people. Goodness, especially the blasted attorneys. But your success rate will be much higher if you disengage your ego, step back, and approach the situation with the correct tactics, leaving out nasty attitudes, threats or anything similar. It also ALWAYS helps to have other folks you can bounce ideas off of, as the mind is often more clouded when we’re being personally attacked. And these attorneys want to give as much an impression of attack as they possibly can, with the expectation that most people will succumb out of fear.

Mel Harris and Slamowitz issue paperwork to the alleged debtor that has the look and feel of a real legal process being initiated. Slamowitz and Harris both issue paperwork that looks like an actual summons, but leaves out the vitally important signature/verification at the bottom in every case. Harris leaves out index numbers, while Slamowitz often does have them, both also listing venue, but no sigs, even tho they claim to be “verified” complaints. Harris goes the length of putting it in writing that they have received an affidavit of service from a process server that you’ve been served with a summons and complaint. Also note the length both go to, to make sure the word “SUMMONS” is in bold and very large type. They know this scares people, and the appearance does not resemble the real summons' I've seen. Instead, it's all scare tactic.

There has been a lot circulating in our field about the notion of demanding that they “validate” the alleged debts owed. Part of this idea being that they prove that actual, physical money existed that they loaned to you, that you in turn spent via use of the credit card. The attorneys will reference in their paperwork BOTH “verification” and “validation” in an effort to confuse. I don’t have an example with me, but suffice it to say that they will “verify” the debt, but in my experience, will never “validate” it. They use word art to confuse this issue, and they succeed at it with people not-in-the-know.

But the fact remains, that we still don’t have a way to absolutely define exactly what the process of verification versus validation is…at least I haven’t heard any explanations that can be documented and proven to be true. It’s all largely still theory, but it's a pretty safe bet that an alleged credit card debt, barely even based on fractional reserves, if at all, has anything "valid" about it.

With that said, I still do take it to them, in every instance...politely demanding that they validate the debt in every instance. I even clerify in my correspondence that I am NOT seeking a "verification," but instead, a "validation."

Aside from asking them to validate it, esp in the cases of Harris and Slamowitz, simply holding them to their fraudulent processes works very very well.

In the Harris case, I simply asked them for a copy of the affidavit of service that they claimed to have in their possession, in their very first correspondence with me.

They responded with this type of letter:

“As you know Mr. Kirk, we of course have the right to attempt to collect this debt. Please telephone our offices as soon as possible so that we can work out a very favorable payment arrangement.”

I wrote back and let them know I’d be happy to futher consider payment on any alleged debt, as soon as that copy of the service that I originally asked for is sent to me.

They sent me one more letter practically begging me to call them.

I sent one more letter saying I’d like to keep everything in writing, that I still need to see a copy of that affidavit of service that I've now asked for twice, and that at this point I also require the name and number of the nearest criminal investigation unit within their organization, or within their jurisdiction if none exists within their organization.

I never heard back from them. It’s been almost two years.

I also *always* include in my last paragraph something along the lines of “If no response is received within 30 days, any/all alleged debts will be extinguished to both parties satisfaction, and any/all controversy permanently resolved.”

I have never liked the way the last paragraph is worded, but I have yet to come up with anything better.

Be sure and notice in the letters the attorneys sent back, that they will never even address the issue I raised about proof of service. The idea is, they are attempting to get me OFF of that issue, so as to engage in THEIR issue instead.

This can effectively nullify your issue all together. ALWAYS STAY *ON* *YOUR* ISSUE. This is a fundamental that you MUST learn.

Remember...arguments are for idiots.

Another attorney tactic: Often a new organization will come along and outright say in their paperwork that they have purchased your account, or that your account was “sold to” them, and that the debt is now owed to them.

The one time this has happened so far, I wrote them back (I’ve always sent all my paperwork certified/return receipt mail) with “I accept [company's name here] payment in full for any alleged debts on my behalf and I consider this matter resolved in full to both party's satisfaction. Thank you for your interest, Sincerely, Mr. Kirk.” (Or write anything similar that gets this point across without adding too much; we don't want to make things any more complicated if we can avoid it).

You can also obtain written verification from the original card company that the debt was paid off by someone else (one of these companies that buys them up, such as just mentioned, and tries to collect on them) and that then effectively becomes evidence that the alleged debt has been paid. I don’t know the laws/rules on this, but it is my understanding that a debt cannot be transferred, ever. Meaning, it CAN, but that doesn’t mean you’re therefore liable for it...unless you don't know what you're doing, and invoke your own liability by arguing with them. I don’t have any more info on this topic, so I couldn’t offer any more thoughts on it. What I can say, is that using the above wording, I never heard back from that company that bought my alleged debt. And it’s been over six months.

Remember: All "debts" are only ALLEGED debts. And they need to be validated. My guess is that we will never see an actual validation, because the "money" very likely does not exist...

...Fractional Reserve banking carried to obnoxious extremes; to the bank's profit, and your detriment.

In the case of Harris and Slamowitz, it is outright criminal to give the appearance of a legal proceding without there actually being one. I don’t know the specifics. But they utilize so many questionable tactics, that if you simply take the time to learn the basics of procedure, and in this case "service of process," you’ll be so ahead of them that holding them accountable becomes relatively easy.

So in summation, the tactics you must understand and apply are: The conditional acceptance (to be happy to help them out, provided they help you first), the correct service of process, making sure to stay on point, keeping everything in writing and certified/return receipt mail (everything always in writing builds the all-important record and is a MUST) and understand how to make sure you do not correct the defects in their process for them, by engaging in their argument. Had you engaged them in any other issues, you'd have effectively negated your ability to tackle the REAL issues of the fraud involved, and would've cured every miserable proceedure that they did wrong.

The above rules apply to countless civil and criminal matters as well. They are must-knows for all areas of law.

A personal note: I honestly have yet to figure out how attorneys live with themselves. I like to think that a great many of them simply never figured out what the federal reserve note, and all our debt, really is. In that way of thinking, I can stay optimistic; perhaps they're just ignorant, and will one day learn what it is they're perpetuating and participating in.

http://rochesterlaw.org/tim_n/

a Google search on "mel S Harris" credit scam brings up and wealth of reults (pardon the pun!

[pj1959us 0]

Do NOT pay this debt until you can verify if it is even yours. You won't ever see your money again.

Didn't you say that the bank told you they actually wouldn't freeze your account? There is no way they can until there has been a judgment issued against you and a judge has signed the order for a freeze. You should have been notified in writing, by the bank and/or the attorneys, that there was a lien placed on the account. I'm assuming the bank has your mailing address, whether in the US or UK? They should be able to provide documents to you that instructed them to place a lien on the account.

You have every right to see ALL of the supportive documents regarding this debt, including the original request/signature to sign up for the card, up to the judgment. You apparently could not have been served a summons for this debt so if there has been a judgment, then it was gained illegally.

Calm down and breathe. It may take a while to straighten everything out, but it will be straightened out. The important thing is to not pay anything...they are counting on you to be frightened into paying, knowing you'll never see your money again.

Do be sure to get a copy of your credit report...there could be other negative entries that you aren't aware of yet that you can nip in the bud before this happens again.

Hang in there.

[Ban Hammer 14,268]

another one i found for the op

link

[arwensun1965 1]

Widge that is a wealth of information, great work

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Thank you soooo much Widge. I really appreciate all of that. I will be using that information to get started first thing tomorrow. I just can't believe that this type of thing really happens. My husband has told me that I should put my ssc under a rock somewhere and NEVER TO CARRY IT IN MY PURSE AGAIN!!! lol. Wow..I am really impressed with that write up...THANKS EVER SO MUCH...I wish there was a way I could repay you...Will a batch of my famous chocolate chip cookied do??? lol

LJ

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

I forgot to reiterate this point. I received the letter from my bank stating that my account was going to be frozen. It was through my bank that I even found out about Mel Harris and this "alleged" debt. Today, I will be moving forward on this and will take these giants down by the bull horns...I am not going to sit down and take this. Even if it stays on my credit report. Why should I have to pay this off when I have NO clue as to what it is. Anyway, I appreciate all the help on this matter. I have contacted my ex and he is going to do a check on our children's credit report to make sure that no one has done anything with their ssc. I will no longer continue to carry my ssc on me nor my children's. Foolish of me yes, but that still doesn't ok it for someone to use our numbers. It is theft in my eyes and I think that ppl should be done in for it.

Thanks again!!

LJ

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Follow the advice of others and go about getting your credit report before paying anyone any money.

brilliant idea!

You simply need to dispute the charge. The company that claims you owe them money has to prove that you actually made the purchase (signature, date of purchase, merchandise). Even if they have proof, most credit card purchases are what are called insecure loans. Meaning, the financial institution can't freeze assets as collateral which makes this really odd. Even then, they are limited as to how they can go about trying to collect. I know this because I filed Chapter 13 over a dozen years ago. Even if it was a secured loan, that company would have to file a judgment against you to have legal claim to your account. This just doesn't make any sense. I'd call your bank back again and talk to a manager - somebody that can explain how they let an outside institution lay claim to your money. It just doesn't make sense.

Doh! Sorry...I didn't read to the end of this thread...hehehe

Edited July 20, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Follow the advice of others and go about getting your credit report before paying anyone any money.

brilliant idea!

You simply need to dispute the charge. The company that claims you owe them money has to prove that you actually made the purchase (signature, date of purchase, merchandise). Even if they have proof, most credit card purchases are what are called insecure loans. Meaning, the financial institution can't freeze assets as collateral which makes this really odd. Even then, they are limited as to how they can go about trying to collect. I know this because I filed Chapter 13 over a dozen years ago. Even if it was a secured loan, that company would have to file a judgment against you to have legal claim to your account. This just doesn't make any sense. I'd call your bank back again and talk to a manager - somebody that can explain how they let an outside institution lay claim to your money. It just doesn't make sense.

Doh! Sorry...I didn't read to the end of this thread...hehehe

Actually, upon reading the links that ppl have given on Mel Harris, and what Widge wrote, your bank accnts CAN be frozen, but they need to legally have a judgement. Which is what I need to get proof of first before I can go further. Since I have not been in the US for over a year now, I have not received any summons or what have you stating that I was going to be taken to court. Also, your accnts can be frozen for any government loans, they can also seize your income tax return...yours and your spouses. I had this done with my student loan when I was married to the ex. They not only took our income tax return but they also garnished my wages. After proving to them that I was in the military when the action started, I was able to then get it deferred and eventually paid it off. Also, if you read what Widge has been kind enough to post, it was actually written by a lawyer and there is more to it than disputing the charge. I appreciate what you are saying though and thank you for your output.

LJ

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Just an update, after talking with my bank AGAIN and explaining to them how the man that I spoke with the second time (glenn miller) told me that it would take 60-90 days for them to get my record, but yet would take my payment over the phone, they told me that it doesn't sound right to them either. The lady at my bank also told me though that they get letters from Mel S. Harris every week to freeze someone's accnt. Now my question is this, does anyone know the legalities of them sending the restraint to a bank on their own letter head without the actual court order??? From what I have gathered, this is not legal. I have emailed the lady at my bank the links that some of you have posted on this thread. I told her that I did not think it was legal that they could do this. What do you think? Thanks in advance...

LJ

[Laura_and_IanM 0]

Ok, so I have just gotten off the phone with the City of Lockport court which is where the so called judgement was taken place. The clerk there Sharon Gaggliono was actually quite nice and actually felt bad for me because she told me the summons was sent to me on August 20th 2005 and I was obviously in the UK at that time so no NOTHING about this. She gave me the name of the actual lawyer that has the suit against me which was Steven Einstien of NY NY. I then called that law office and was told that a Miss. Fagan was the one who is dealing with this case. Let me tell you what a smug ###### she was!!! She told me that yes I was served with a summons even though I was in the UK and can prove it..jesus, thought I was good but DAMN didnt know I was that good ffs. She then proceeded to tell me who the creditor was that I owe. Which was goodhome of Orchard bank?? #######?? WHO THE HELL IS THAT??? I told her that I have never heard of them and she laughed in my ear and told me "YEAH RIGHT..you haven't heard of them. Like I don't hear that a million times a day. You ppl take out loans and credit cards, don't pay them off then play like you are dumb and ignorant". I NEVER!!!!!! I am actually crying right now because I honestly have never heard of them and don't know what this is about. She told me to hire a lawyer and have him open my case and fight it if I am so positive that I didn't get served and never heard of Orchard bank. OMG I WANT TO SCREAM!! So, my options are to either pay this debt of 1,143.00 or hire a lawyer to open the case which will automatically cost me 1500.00 on top of the debt etc...What the hell do I do?? ANY MORE SUGGESTIONS???

[tsunamihart 0]

Why would a lawyer be acting as a collection agent, especially on such a small amount?

If he was in fact acting on behalf of a company wouldn't he have your file there with him and be able to answer all your questions instead of it taking 60-90 days?

Follow the advice of others and go about getting your credit report before paying anyone any money.

They are called ambulance chasers as well as pond scum and fecal eaters...they do collect on small amounts, they collect for a fee a percentage so that they can continue to do their bottom feeding...but I really don't feel one way or the other about attourneys

Ok, so I have just gotten off the phone with the City of Lockport court which is where the so called judgement was taken place. The clerk there Sharon Gaggliono was actually quite nice and actually felt bad for me because she told me the summons was sent to me on August 20th 2005 and I was obviously in the UK at that time so no NOTHING about this. She gave me the name of the actual lawyer that has the suit against me which was Steven Einstien of NY NY. I then called that law office and was told that a Miss. Fagan was the one who is dealing with this case. Let me tell you what a smug ###### she was!!! She told me that yes I was served with a summons even though I was in the UK and can prove it..jesus, thought I was good but DAMN didnt know I was that good ffs. She then proceeded to tell me who the creditor was that I owe. Which was goodhome of Orchard bank?? #######?? WHO THE HELL IS THAT??? I told her that I have never heard of them and she laughed in my ear and told me "YEAH RIGHT..you haven't heard of them. Like I don't hear that a million times a day. You ppl take out loans and credit cards, don't pay them off then play like you are dumb and ignorant". I NEVER!!!!!! I am actually crying right now because I honestly have never heard of them and don't know what this is about. She told me to hire a lawyer and have him open my case and fight it if I am so positive that I didn't get served and never heard of Orchard bank. OMG I WANT TO SCREAM!! So, my options are to either pay this debt of 1,143.00 or hire a lawyer to open the case which will automatically cost me 1500.00 on top of the debt etc...What the hell do I do?? ANY MORE SUGGESTIONS???

Of course your head says to fight it and you probably should but you should also know that they will often negotiate what the client is willing to take to settle this matter, especially in where most of the charges are interest...but I'm a fightin' man and I'd probably be bullheaded and take it on and git er done! Fight the scumbags!

[Ban Hammer 14,268]

it still sounds like a scam to me. the price is lower than what a lawyer is, which is a planned event i'd guess. tried talking to the attorney general of the state?