Bush set to veto stem cell bill

[Dr_LHA 3]

People that do invetro know they are killing some of their babies. The doctor even tells them "Ms X, 8 out of the 10 eggs were fertilized successfully." HELLOOOO! That means there are 8 babies there. Of course this lady doesn't want 8 kids so she implants one this year-another in a few years and dumps the rest of them. It makes me really sad that people can feel so unattached to life they created and not feel bad about it.

Two wrongs have never made a right

It comes down to doctrine. You believe that as soon as a sperm and egg come together that is a person. Most people do not believe this, as it is only the very first step towards creating a human being. Couples going into IVF have the sperm and eggs to create life, but some other issue prevents them from having children. I believe it is better to create a one life out of 10 zygotes, than to create no life at all.

But as I said, it comes down to doctrine, so its really pointless to argue.

Note: I edited to say zygote, because that is what they have frozen, not embryos. "Embryo" is used to describe a unborn baby "after implantation".

Edited July 21, 2006 by dr_lha

[Ban Hammer 14,674]

It comes down to docterine. You believe that as soon as a sperm and egg come together that is a person. Most people do not believe this, as it is only the very first step towards creating a human being. Couples going into IVF have the sperm and eggs to create life, but some other issue prevents them from having children. I believe it is better to create a one life out of 10 zygotes, than to create no life at all.

But as I said, it comes down to docterine, so its really pointless to argue.

when a sperm and egg come togther it is life. as for what defines a person is very much open for debate.

[ace13 0]

Ace, you make a lot of sense. Lately I too find myself questioning IVF. Good points.

awesome

I honestly didn't realize what was happening. I knew people were getting help to conceive, but I didn't realize until recently how many fertilized eggs are discarded. IMO one is too many.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

[Fuzzness 2]

People that do invetro know they are killing some of their babies. The doctor even tells them "Ms X, 8 out of the 10 eggs were fertilized successfully." HELLOOOO! That means there are 8 babies there. Of course this lady doesn't want 8 kids so she implants one this year-another in a few years and dumps the rest of them. It makes me really sad that people can feel so unattached to life they created and not feel bad about it.

Two wrongs have never made a right

yet you support the death penalty? are you saying killing is ok in certain cases? and if so who decides when it's ok to kill someone (keep in mind not talking about self defense here)

It comes down to docterine. You believe that as soon as a sperm and egg come together that is a person. Most people do not believe this, as it is only the very first step towards creating a human being. Couples going into IVF have the sperm and eggs to create life, but some other issue prevents them from having children. I believe it is better to create a one life out of 10 zygotes, than to create no life at all.

But as I said, it comes down to docterine, so its really pointless to argue.

when a sperm and egg come togther it is life. as for what defines a person is very much open for debate.

since the sperm and egg are living cells to begin with, then yes you are correct.

I guess we better find a way to stop sneezing since it kills some cells in your body.

[Ric Flair 0]

People that do invetro know they are killing some of their babies. The doctor even tells them "Ms X, 8 out of the 10 eggs were fertilized successfully." HELLOOOO! That means there are 8 babies there. Of course this lady doesn't want 8 kids so she implants one this year-another in a few years and dumps the rest of them. It makes me really sad that people can feel so unattached to life they created and not feel bad about it.

Two wrongs have never made a right

yet you support the death penalty? are you saying killing is ok in certain cases? and if so who decides when it's ok to kill someone (keep in mind not talking about self defense here)

It comes down to docterine. You believe that as soon as a sperm and egg come together that is a person. Most people do not believe this, as it is only the very first step towards creating a human being. Couples going into IVF have the sperm and eggs to create life, but some other issue prevents them from having children. I believe it is better to create a one life out of 10 zygotes, than to create no life at all.

But as I said, it comes down to docterine, so its really pointless to argue.

when a sperm and egg come togther it is life. as for what defines a person is very much open for debate.

since the sperm and egg are living cells to begin with, then yes you are correct.

I guess we better find a way to stop sneezing since it kills some cells in your body.

I think it was George Carlin who said that any man that masturbates should be arrested for mass murder.

[Fuzzness 2]

People that do invetro know they are killing some of their babies. The doctor even tells them "Ms X, 8 out of the 10 eggs were fertilized successfully." HELLOOOO! That means there are 8 babies there. Of course this lady doesn't want 8 kids so she implants one this year-another in a few years and dumps the rest of them. It makes me really sad that people can feel so unattached to life they created and not feel bad about it.

Two wrongs have never made a right

yet you support the death penalty? are you saying killing is ok in certain cases? and if so who decides when it's ok to kill someone (keep in mind not talking about self defense here)

It comes down to docterine. You believe that as soon as a sperm and egg come together that is a person. Most people do not believe this, as it is only the very first step towards creating a human being. Couples going into IVF have the sperm and eggs to create life, but some other issue prevents them from having children. I believe it is better to create a one life out of 10 zygotes, than to create no life at all.

But as I said, it comes down to docterine, so its really pointless to argue.

when a sperm and egg come togther it is life. as for what defines a person is very much open for debate.

since the sperm and egg are living cells to begin with, then yes you are correct.

I guess we better find a way to stop sneezing since it kills some cells in your body.

I think it was George Carlin who said that any man that masturbates should be arrested for mass murder.

[KarenCee 3]

I GLAD he vetoed it. Since when is it ok to experiment with human lives-especially those that are most vulnerable? You guys could care less about a PETA march to stop experimentation on animals but line up and protest when someone stands up for human life. It is a life and death issue. Those embryos shouldn't be there in the first place-people that have difficulty having children have no right to sacrifice innocent lives to fulfill their selfish need to have a biological child. There are many wonderful children needing homes.

Those are babies and I truely rejoice he protected life.

As someone who has fertility issues, unless you have personally "been in my shoes" you can't possibly understand what it's like. I've never had IVF but if and when I do, how does my desire to have a baby all of a sudden become relegated to selfishness? I agree there are lots of wonderful children needing home...but the adoption process here in the US is just as long and arduous as the VJ journey. How fair is that to those parentless children? I am by no means selfish for wanting to have a child with my husband. If adoption is our only option then we are open to that. However, I am surely not against trying to have one of our own. I have checked into adoption. It's more expensive than IVF and VJ put together!

ace13: Shouldn't Bush then make destroying said embryos illegal too? This is the fate of most of these embryos after all, a very small percentage of them will become the so called "Snowflake Children".

I would rather they be used to better mankind than incinerated.

Here again, you can't begin to state what is right or wrong here....its a personal judgment. However, as it always does with these threads, it becomes a religious debate and if this one continues it will surely become heated. To try and coerce - convince - a people to believe a certain way is when said beliefs take on the form of legalism, which the conservative fundamentalists are QUITE fond of.

ace13: Shouldn't Bush then make destroying said embryos illegal too? This is the fate of most of these embryos after all, a very small percentage of them will become the so called "Snowflake Children".

I would rather they be used to better mankind than incinerated.

I should be illegal. You can't better serve mankind by killing one segment to serve the other. It is wrong.

Legalism, here again.

People that do invetro know they are killing some of their babies. The doctor even tells them "Ms X, 8 out of the 10 eggs were fertilized successfully." HELLOOOO! That means there are 8 babies there. Of course this lady doesn't want 8 kids so she implants one this year-another in a few years and dumps the rest of them. It makes me really sad that people can feel so unattached to life they created and not feel bad about it.

Two wrongs have never made a right

It comes down to doctrine. You believe that as soon as a sperm and egg come together that is a person. Most people do not believe this, as it is only the very first step towards creating a human being. Couples going into IVF have the sperm and eggs to create life, but some other issue prevents them from having children. I believe it is better to create a one life out of 10 zygotes, than to create no life at all.

But as I said, it comes down to doctrine, so its really pointless to argue.

Note: I edited to say zygote, because that is what they have frozen, not embryos. "Embryo" is used to describe a unborn baby "after implantation".

Exactly. If the embryo never implants it cannot sustain life. Hence an early form of miscarriage. I've had a miscarriage...I know what it's like. If the embryos that are placed in the woman's uterus for POSSIBLE implantation are NEVER implanted, how then can it be considered as a life? It would depend on said implantation to ever develop INTO a baby so without that happening, it is merely embryonic material with the possibility of becoming life.

[Veiled Princess 1]

yet you support the death penalty? are you saying killing is ok in certain cases? and if so who decides when it's ok to kill someone (keep in mind not talking about self defense here)

What do you think the death penalty amounts to? Self defense of the entire society. I'm not saying kill every person who's ever comitted a crime but those who have clearly shown they can't get along here need to go... it is the society who gets to decide that... that's why we have a jury of our peers to represent our case to if we're accussed of a crime.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Self defense of the entire society. I'm not saying kill every person who's ever comitted a crime but those who have clearly shown they can't get along here need to go...

Jail for life without possibility for parole accomplishes the same thing. And it takes into account the fact that systems of justice run by men are prone to error.

[dalegg 143]

Self defense of the entire society. I'm not saying kill every person who's ever comitted a crime but those who have clearly shown they can't get along here need to go...

Jail for life without possibility for parole accomplishes the same thing. And it takes into account the fact that systems of justice run by men are prone to error.

Except for things like this..Link

[Veiled Princess 1]

Self defense of the entire society. I'm not saying kill every person who's ever comitted a crime but those who have clearly shown they can't get along here need to go...

Jail for life without possibility for parole accomplishes the same thing. And it takes into account the fact that systems of justice run by men are prone to error.

Ok, when it is an option to support violent criminals and not funded by my tax money maybe I'll change my mind and then you can pay for them as reward for anti social behavior Until then, fry them, give them the needle, hang 'em, whatever works

[ChristinaM 0]

I don't agree with stem cell research, but that's because I think it's entirely possible that it's the start of a slippery slope. Just because we can do clever things with science doesn't mean that it's always right to do so.

For the record, it's not out of any kind of misguided concern I might have for the cells.

Edited July 21, 2006 by clmarsh

[iceyspots 0]

Self defense of the entire society. I'm not saying kill every person who's ever comitted a crime but those who have clearly shown they can't get along here need to go...

Jail for life without possibility for parole accomplishes the same thing. And it takes into account the fact that systems of justice run by men are prone to error.

And jail without a possibility of parole is a helluva lot cheaper.

[Fuzzness 2]

Self defense of the entire society. I'm not saying kill every person who's ever comitted a crime but those who have clearly shown they can't get along here need to go...

Jail for life without possibility for parole accomplishes the same thing. And it takes into account the fact that systems of justice run by men are prone to error.

Ok, when it is an option to support violent criminals and not funded by my tax money maybe I'll change my mind and then you can pay for them as reward for anti social behavior Until then, fry them, give them the needle, hang 'em, whatever works

I just can't put a monetary value on life I guess.... maybe that's my problem, money isn't my top priority.