Church, residents argue case on feeding homeless

[one...two...tree 2,762]

by Sadie Jo Smokey -

The Arizona Republic

Some clapped and cheered, others hissed and jeered. Some quoted scripture, others called each other names. All because CrossRoads United Methodist Church in north-central Phoenix, neighbors and city officials disagree on how to interpret a zoning law that would allow the church to keep feeding the homeless.

More than 250 people showed up Thursday to make their case before a hearing officer at Burton Barr Central Library. Now, it's up to a zoning adjustment hearing officer, retired state Supreme Court Justice Robert Corcoran, to determine if feeding the homeless at a place of worship is classified as a charity dining hall or an allowed use of the place of worship. He is expected to make a decision in early next month.

The church's attorney Marilee Miller Clarke cited First Amendment right to freedom of religion, the 14th amendment and the federal Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000.

Miller Clarke explained that RLUIPA grants exemptions from zoning regulations that pose a "substantial burden" to the free exercise of religion unless the city can show that they have a compelling interest that can only be served by the land-use restriction.

"This is not a charity dining hall in the sense that it's merely there to provide food," said Miller Clarke. "It's not a dining hall. It's part of the service. It's just one element of it."

Supporting CrossRoads, the Rev. Jan Olav Flaaten, executive director of the Phoenix-based Arizona Ecumenical Council, said a dozen churches in the Valley are feeding the homeless on their campuses.

Representing the North Central Phoenix Homeowners Association, attorney Neil Alden, who also lives in the neighborhood, said the church failed to prove that limiting the breakfast service would be a substantial burden to the way the church practices its religion. For 50 years the church has not had a meal-based worship service on its campus.

Paul Barnes of the Neighborhood Coalition of Greater Phoenix said zoning laws must be enforced to protect neighborhoods, or all Phoenix residents could see similar meal-based services for the homeless at the house of worship in their neighborhood. "It's a charity dining hall," Barnes said.

The zoning hearing officer can give final approval. If the case is appealed, then it would go to the Board of Adjustments.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix...Church1024.html

[catknit 144]

Do the same people complain when there are weddings on Saturdays? Oh, yeah, that's right, those hoards of people aren't homeless.

And where are the numbers? How many people are showing??? How is that different from the numbers of people who show up usually?

I'm willing to guess with the church there for 50 years [at stated] - the home owners may have thought that the church may have people there on Sunday mornings. But I'm guessing not the right people for the home owner's association.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Do the same people complain when there are weddings on Saturdays? Oh, yeah, that's right, those hoards of people aren't homeless.

And where are the numbers? How many people are showing??? How is that different from the numbers of people who show up usually?

I'm willing to guess with the church there for 50 years [at stated] - the home owners may have thought that the church may have people there on Sunday mornings. But I'm guessing not the right people for the home owner's association.

Exactly.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Do the same people complain when there are weddings on Saturdays? Oh, yeah, that's right, those hoards of people aren't homeless.

And where are the numbers? How many people are showing??? How is that different from the numbers of people who show up usually?

I'm willing to guess with the church there for 50 years [at stated] - the home owners may have thought that the church may have people there on Sunday mornings. But I'm guessing not the right people for the home owner's association.

Exactly.

+1 Homelessness is a big problem in many areas of the US. I'll agree with BY on some of these issues. The murder rate, homelessness and poverty levels are not acceptable for the US.

[Ban Hammer 14,665]

jesus fed the poor. i don't see a problem with the church doing the same.

[Heracles 417]

+1 Homelessness is a big problem in many areas of the US. I'll agree with BY on some of these issues. The murder rate, homelessness and poverty levels are not acceptable for the US.

How do you ever fix this issue though when this very second someone is literally entering illegally? Contrary to popular belief, no country, not even the US has a bottomless pit of money to pay for the world.

What angers and actually offends me about this place is that there are people happily driving $90K BMW's (which would cost $280K in Aus), while their fellow countrymen are starving, homeless and have no health care. Is that the America people want to live in? I will gladly pay my 10 to 20 percent more any day, than save that and rely on a church to feed our people.

Government = there for the people. Time various people recognize that.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

Look at these idiots. They're actually contradicting themselves.

The government is supposed to be there for the people.

[AlHayatZween 2]

Oh dear, BY, not every homeless person entered the country illegally!

In fact, many are down & out Americans inflicted with mental illness or drug addiction or a whole bunch of other scenarios that have left them in their predicament...

Edited October 24, 2009 by AlHayatZween

[Nagishkaw 510]

jesus 0vomit's ol' lady fed the poor. i don't see a problem with the church doing the same.

Fixxored.

[Heracles 417]

Oh dear, BY, not every homeless person entered the country illegally!

In fact, many are down & out Americans inflicted with mental illness or drug addiction or a whole bunch of other scenarios that have left them in their predicament...

I don't blame illegals. My point was every country has finite resources and money. Illegal aliens are receiving tax payer services for free, with close to 50% of those in NYC receiving benefits. This is money that could be spent on America's poor.

Simple example: You have $1,000 to invest on 10 Americans that are poor. They would effectively have $100 spent on them each. Now add 4 illegal aliens. That reduces the money available to $70. Same thing is happening throughout school districts in America. Where resources are being diverted from special needs kids, urban poor, those in the Appalachian, American Indians etc to fund ESOL teachers and pay for the massive influx of Hispanic kids in the education system that has occurred in the last 9 years. Same school budget being used on more students. End result, illegal aliens get a free education while everyone else loses.

Strict rules regarding immigration, in particular illegal immigration, is why countries like Australia have maintained such a high living standard for all. The US has 13 times their population and approximately 20 million illegal aliens. Let’s assume Australia was forced to accept 1.4 million illegal aliens themselves, the country would be greatly impacted. Their standard of living would drop overnight. They simply would not be able to pay for them all and not be affected. Instead they trickle people in from around the world every year. Furthermore, still maintaining their high standard of living and allowing those who move there with nothing to actually have a chance to get on their feet. Not possible if they had to compete with 1.4 million illegal aliens.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Booyah!

[alienlovechild 75]

Look at these idiots. They're actually contradicting themselves.

The government is supposed to be there for the people.

What contradiction? Government policy doesn't always match say populist sentiments. The Constitution's preamble does refer to "we the people. . ." not "we the government. . ." so that is a statement of fact.

[Heracles 417]

Look at these idiots. They're actually contradicting themselves.

The government is supposed to be there for the people.

What contradiction? Government policy doesn't always match say populist sentiments. The Constitution's preamble does refer to "we the people. . ." not "we the government. . ." so that is a statement of fact.

Yes. As such, the government's core role and purpose is to be there for 'we the people'. I don't see the words, 'corporation', 'lobbyist' or 'private industry' anywhere in the bill of rights. People seem to have a limited grasp of what a government does or the reasons it exists in the first place. Heck, people here don't even realize you have three branches of government. Furthermore, falsely assume the president calls the shot on their own. "populist sentiments"? You had 8 eight years and were voted out. That is how a democracy works.

Never seizes to amaze me how little people know about the terms: government, democracy, socialism, free-market and capitalism. The disparity in education from state to state, city to county is alarming. That is what you should be worried about, not Obama. How are you guys going to compete in the 21st century when a large portion of the country is uneducated? Not to mention the millions of Americans living in poverty, which repubs seem to believe should be up to the private sector to assist them. Well they haven't and the churches are stretched to the breaking point.

I don't think you realize or care how many people I know of from abroad who come here and laugh when they see it firsthand and think, is this what you call a superpower..

Edited October 24, 2009 by Booyah!

[DEDixon 39]

Organized religion feeding the friends of liberals... go figure. Liberals would shut churches down if they could, but here and many other places (10s of thousands of places) the churches (conservatives) are helping.

It would be interesting to see church turn away these folks... let them go begging to the liberals in gov't that enable them to continue on the same old path.... depending on gov't for the most part.

Edited October 24, 2009 by DEDixon

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I don't think you realize or care how many people I know of from abroad who come here and laugh when they see it firsthand and think, is this what you call a superpower..

But did they see the aircraft carriers, B-2's, F-22's, Trident submarines and nuclear missles?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Organized religion feeding the friends of liberals... go figure. Liberals would shut churches down if they could, but here and many other places (10s of thousands of places) the churches (conservatives) are helping.

It would be interesting to see church turn away these folks... let them go begging to the liberals in gov't that enable them to continue on the same old path.... depending on gov't for the most part.

First of all, not every Christian Church is a hotbed of Right Wingers.

Secondly, hanging onto the long held myth that people who are homeless are that way by choice just further perpetuates the type of animosity some of these neighbors showed over the churches feeding the homeless.