Navy moves to put women on submarines

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Navy pushes to allow women on submarines; wives worry about temptation under the sea

RUSS BYNUM and PAULINE JELINEK

Submariners sleep nine to a bunk room. There are four showers and seven toilets for the roughly 140 enlisted men. The passageways on board the vessel are so narrow that crew members can barely squeeze by each other without touching.

And that's on the roomiest submarines.

The Navy is considering allowing women to serve aboard submarines for the first time, 16 years after bringing female sailors onto surface combat ships.

Some sailors and wives warn that putting men and women together in extremely close quarters underwater for weeks at a time is just asking for sexual harassment cases and wrecked marriages. But supporters of the idea say it is a matter of fairness and equal opportunity, and what worked on ships can work in subs.

"There's just a whole lot less privacy on board a submarine," said retired Navy Capt. Mike McKinnon, commanding officer of the Kings Bay sub base near St. Marys from 2004-07 and a former skipper of the submarine USS Kentucky. "But I think grown adults and professionally minded people can deal with those issues."

Over the past two weeks, top leaders at the Pentagon have said they are considering ending another in the dwindling number of military specialties reserved for men only. Officials said a decision could come soon, and women could be aboard subs by 2011.

The Navy will have to work through a host of issues first. Would men and women get separate bathrooms and sleeping quarters, as is already done aboard surface ships? Would the process of integrating subs begin with female officers, followed by enlisted women? What would happen if a woman discovered at sea that she was pregnant?

"If women can be on space shuttles and on surface ships, I think they ought to be able to work on submarines," said Lisa Goins, who retired in February after a 20-year Navy career. She served aboard aircraft carriers and at the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Kings Bay is the East Coast base for the Navy's Ohio-class submarines, which are armed with Trident nuclear missiles and go on 77-day tours of duty underwater. The 18 Ohio-class subs would probably be the first to take on women since they are the largest in the undersea fleet, 200 feet longer than the Navy's fast-attack submarines.

Still, at 560 feet, Ohio-class subs are a tight fit for their 160-man crews. Sailors sleep in cramped bunk rooms roughly the size of walk-in closets. The 140 enlisted men share two bathrooms. (The officers have separate facilities.)

The passageways and hatches are so narrow that those aboard are always rubbing up against each other — a situation played for laughs in the 1959 Cary Grant comedy "Operation Petticoat," in which a World War II sub rescues a group of stranded Army nurses.

The Associated Press sought permission to interview sailors at Kings Bay about the potential policy shift, but after a week, the Navy had yet to give its approval. Sailors contacted outside the base would not comment.

On blogs and online networking sites, wives of submariners have warned that the close contact could lead to sexual temptation and other complications.

"I completely believe this would put strain on some relationships because there are trust issues," said Jennifer Simmons, whose husband serves on a submarine at Kings Bay. "It's asking for sexual harassment cases left and right. If you're trying to go through a passageway together, guess what — you're going to touch."

The Navy bans "fraternization" between unmarried men and women. Punishment can range from a letter in the offender's file to a court-martial. Navy officials said they had no immediate figures on reports of fraternization aboard its ships.

The rule change that allowed women to serve on combat ships was pronounced a success by the Navy long ago. But it was not all smooth sailing.

In the mid-1990s, the aircraft carrier Eisenhower was nicknamed "The Love Boat" after 15 women became pregnant and a man videotaped himself having sex with a woman. However, the Navy said 12 of the women who conceived did so before boarding the ship, and the three others got pregnant during shore leave.

Officials said the paperwork for changing the policy on submarines is being drawn up and could be finished by the end of the month or early November, after which it would be sent up the chain of command and then to Defense Secretary Robert Gates for his approval. If Congress wants to block the move, it must pass legislation.

Key military leaders have already said they favor changing the policy that has allowed women on all surface ships since 1993 but still bans them from submarines. Women are allowed to serve on subs in a few countries, including Australia, Canada, Norway, Spain and Sweden.

McKinnon, the former base commander, said he suspects unhappy spouses would be the biggest obstacle to a change in policy. He acknowledged that sailors serving undersea together for weeks without surfacing form close bonds.

"I think there's this concern that if you have women out there, they're going to develop feelings for each other and have bad things happen," McKinnon said. "I think that's a natural thought. But the surface Navy's come through it."

He added: "You work with women in the workplace. You should be able to work with them on submarines."

___

Associated Press writer Pauline Jelinek contributed to this story from Washington.

___

Russ Bynum has covered the military based in Georgia since 2001.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009...nes.php?ref=fpa

[spookyturtle 9,466]

It's the phallus thing.

[Chris_Жанна 11]

Hahaha and I guess there is no gay or bi sailors in the Navy??? Common......

Personally from having been in the Navy, I don't see what the problem is. Ever been on a destroyer? The berthing compartments are just as small. I say let anyone who is masochistic enough to do a 6 month deployment in a nuclear tube under a polar ice cap probally is looking to get away from their Husban/ Wife anyways....

Submarine detail is voluntary work.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

And there will probably be unwanted pregnancies because of all the seamen.

Edited October 14, 2009 by spookyturtle

[natty bumppo 297]

submarine races?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Down Periscope?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Hahaha and I guess there is no gay or bi sailors in the Navy??? Common......

Personally from having been in the Navy, I don't see what the problem is. Ever been on a destroyer? The berthing compartments are just as small. I say let anyone who is masochistic enough to do a 6 month deployment in a nuclear tube under a polar ice cap probally is looking to get away from their Husban/ Wife anyways....

Submarine detail is voluntary work.

We had a known gay guy in our division. No one cared as long as pulled his own weight. Which he did. As long as the split-tails get the job done it will work out too.

- former navy nuke. USS Truxtun (CGN-35)

[Robby999 1,024]

I completed 7 patrols aboard a Boomer during my time in the Navy. I read the first post and noticed that the countries that are allowing women to serve aboard submarines do not possess nuclear submarines. The reason women have been excluded from the US Submarine Nuclear Fleet was due to the fear of sterility caused by exposure to radiation. On my boat, if women came aboard they were escorted and only allowed to visit specific areas of the boat! I can assure you the R.C. and crews berthing were not on that approved list. I think the powers to be better think long and hard about this decision, the average crew member age is 25 years old, and I can assure you that by the 2nd month of patrol you will have 130 extra torpedo's onboard. The living and working spaces are very cramped and I know this will be a major cost to correct, not to mention the total lack of privacy. I know it will be interesting to see what types of patrol personalities the females assume, generally during a patrol your mind and personality is totally different than when you are at home! I used to think of all the nutcases I served with and how they(we) would appear to normal people. I figured out my first run you have to be just a little crazy just to stay sane. I know some of the brightest and craziest minds call the Silent Service home, we have been rewarded for years with the best food the Navy offers, best schools the Navy offers, top pay, and now the government is attempting to supply the only thing our mind numbing dull boring 4 knots to nowhere patrols lacked! Hell, I ready to reenlist now! I guess run silent, run deep has a new meaning now!!!!

former MM/SS (A-Gang) SSBN645

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Hahaha and I guess there is no gay or bi sailors in the Navy??? Common......

Personally from having been in the Navy, I don't see what the problem is. Ever been on a destroyer? The berthing compartments are just as small. I say let anyone who is masochistic enough to do a 6 month deployment in a nuclear tube under a polar ice cap probally is looking to get away from their Husban/ Wife anyways....

Submarine detail is voluntary work.

Last I checked, most destroyers are oil/steam powered, where subs and carriers (of US navy) are nuclear. What if they are assigned engine-room (maybe archaic concept but...) duty?

And there will probably be unwanted pregnancies because of all the seamen.

Worsened danger if the women in question have engine-room duties.

Nevermind, Robby999 beat me to the punch.

[MrsCat 6]

Personally from having been in the Navy, I don't see what the problem is. Ever been on a destroyer? The berthing compartments are just as small. I say let anyone who is masochistic enough to do a 6 month deployment in a nuclear tube under a polar ice cap probally is looking to get away from their Husban/ Wife anyways....

[SuperDuper! 230]

It's the phallus thing.

So you are saying this attracts women to the submarine? Hmm, imagine, a phallus-shaped object full of sea men.

Just sayin'!

[SuperDuper! 230]

Down Periscope?

Gotta love a woman in uniform--and OUT of uniform!

[Robby999 1,024]

This is a fairly accurate and funny look at the daily life of a submariner!News

United States Navy

Submarine Centennial

Submarine Simulation

Life Aboard A Submarine…

If you have never served aboard a submarine or do not know anyone who is or was a submariner, then this list may help you understand what life aboard a submarine is all about (Well..sort of anyway.) If you are a submarine veteran, you will probably find much to laugh about in the unique world of submarine life. These are but a few of the ways to experience (on the lighter side) life aboard a submarine. These are but examples, used for reference only, not for actual demonstration purposes. Read at your own risk.

1. Spend as much time as you can indoors during the daytime, stay out of direct sunlight. Go to work only before sunrise and come home after sunset.

2. Paint everything around you Sea Foam Green (Navy NSN Green, no substitutions) or Off-White to be sure you are living in a clean, happy environment. Every Friday, set an alarm on loud for a short, but hated, drill sound. Then get up and manned only with a bucket, sponge and a greeny. Clean one area over and over, even if it is already spotless.

3. Eat food that you can only get out of a can and requires water in order to eat it. Empty out your refrigerator and turn the temperature control down, turning the refrigerator into a freezer. Get rid of all fresh fruits and vegetables.

4. Repeat back everything spoken to you. Repeat back everything spoken to you.

5. Sit in your car for six hours at a time with the motor running. Keep hands on the wheel. But don’t leave your driveway. Log readings of your oil pressure, water temperature, speedometer and odometer every 15 minutes.

6. Put Lube Oil in your humidifier instead of water. Set it on high.

7. Buy a trash compactor; use it only once a week. Store the rest of the garbage in your bathroom.

8. Don’t watch movies except in the middle of the night. Have your family vote on which movie to watch, then show a different one.

9. Have the paperboy give you a standard Navy haircut.

10. Take hourly readings on your water and your electric meters. But only for a six hour period.

11. Sleep with your dirty laundry.

12. For you old mechanics, set your lawn mower in the middle of the living room while it is running. Only for six hours a day.

13. Invite guests but don’t prepare enough food for everyone. Serve food cold. Limit the time they sit at the table to 10 minutes.

14. Wake up at midnight every night and make a peanut butter sandwich, use stale bread. Better yet, make your own bread but cut 3 inch thick slices and use these. Optional: warm up some canned Ravioli or soup.

15. Make your family a menu for the week without knowing what food is in the cabinets.

16. Set your alarm clock for various times at night; adjust the volume to the maximum. When it goes off, jump out of bed, get your clothes on as fast as you can, run outside and grab the garden hose. Then go back to bed and do it all again when the alarm goes off.

17. Once a month take apart every appliance completely and then put them back together.

18. Use 18 scoops of coffee per pot and allow it to sit for 5 to six hours before drinking it.

19. Invite at least 85 people you really don’t like and have them stay for a couple of months.

20. Store your eggs in the garbage for two months and then cook a dozen each morning.

21. Have a fluorescent lamp installed under your coffee table and lie underneath it to read books.

22. Put a complicated lock on your basement door and wear the key around your neck on a special chain.

23. When making cakes, prop up one side of the pan when cooking. Use extra icing to level it off.

24. Every so often, yell "EMERGENCY DEEP!" run into the kitchen and sweep all pots, pans and dishes off of the counters onto the floor, and then yell at your wife for not having the kitchen area "Stowed for Sea!"

25. Put on the stereo headphones (don’t plug them in), go to the stove and stand in front of it. Say (to no one in particular) "Stove manned and ready" stay there for 3 to 4 hours. Say (once again and to no one in particular) "Stove secured", then role up your headphone cord and put them away.

26. Pull out your refrigerator and clean behind it for 4 hours and then put it back when you are done. Have your wife come and check every 10 minutes with a flashlight to see how you are doing.

27. When doing your laundry fill it only 1/3 full, sit in front of your washing machine in your underwear and read a book or magazine you’ve read at least 5 times before in the last week. When the wash is done, only run the dryer for half the normal time.

28. Fix-up a shelf in your closet that will serve as your bunk for the next six months. Take the door off of the hinges and replace them with curtains. While asleep, have family members shine a flashlight in your eyes at random intervals and say either "Sign this!" or "Sorry, wrong rack!"

29. If you can do these. You can do just about anything!

[justashooter 430]

gonna be a lot of cash in those girl's purses when they hit the docks.

[MrsCat 6]

Life Aboard A Submarine…

5. Sit in your car for six hours at a time with the motor running. Keep hands on the wheel. But don’t leave your driveway. Log readings of your oil pressure, water temperature, speedometer and odometer every 15 minutes.

24. Every so often, yell "EMERGENCY DEEP!" run into the kitchen and sweep all pots, pans and dishes off of the counters onto the floor, and then yell at your wife for not having the kitchen area "Stowed for Sea!"

definitely not for me.