"a DCF What if" - I-864 & a Job Offer

[tackymonkey 0]

Greetings to all,

First, thanks for all the info I have gathered using this site. It is greatly appreciated!! I read many posts but cannot seem to find consensus, as it seems we are subject at times to the whims and individual discretion of consular officers regardless of the "official" rules. I am getting conflicting information because of this.

I have a couple of questions I am hoping someone here can answer??

First some background: I (USC ) filed my I-130 DCF in Frankfurt on September 21st, 2009 for my spouse. When we filed in-person in Frankfurt the consular officer told me that based on my info, we "may need a co-sponsor". Then a second consular officer told me (on that same day) that sometimes they do approve based on a job offer alone, but I would not find out “until the interview”. So I wrote the Consulate again this week, and again got the response of “wait until the interview”

Let me preface this entire thread at this point by saying a co-sponsor is 100% impossible for us and we have zero assets. I also realize that the “rules” state a job offer is insufficient to fulfill the I-864.

Here is my situation:

Income 2006 = 13,856 , Income 2007 = 31,200, Income for 2008: $5,341 (due to job hunting and unemployment),

Now: I have a job offer in the US that will pay 50,000 per year.

Mostly importantly, we have zero assets. This job offer is the reason we would like to return to the US. Remember again, we have no chance at a co-sponsor...period. So, assets and co-sponsor are a no-go. This means we have to qualify on my income alone.

So my questions are as follows:

1) (The obvious) have any of you been approved (at the discretion of the officer) on a job offer alone?

2) What if my spouse goes to the interview and is denied based on not fulfilling the "current income" requirements of the I-864? What happens then???? Do the hold on to his file and give me more time. I’ve heard of some people going back to the US first, working and then supplying a copy of their first paycheck? But, I’m wondering, will my situation result in circumstances that will delay my spouse’s processing for a year or more if denied at the consulate?

I am so confused and worried that my spouse will be denied after I have returned to the US and I will not be abroad with him anymore to help. Even worse, that he will never be able to follow me to the US just because I didn’t make enough money last year. It seems to me after what I’ve been reading online that it’s a big risk for my spouse to be denied at that the interview and this can possibly result in his file being sent to some beaurocratic monstrosity on the US mainland and out of the hands of consular filing that can prevent him from joining me for a year or more.??? Am I misunderstanding this? Do they give me a chance to prove our case after the interview or not? Or are they just extorting me for cash in the form of fees first and I will surely be denied anyway?

What are my options? What can potentially happen at the interview? Finally, what would be the quickest way for me to fix the situation after a denial at the interview? I have to leave for the US by mid November to start my new job.

Any advice?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Hi there. In our case, we did have a joint sponsor. However, from what little I see in your post, the job offer should be enough, since this will put you over the poverty limit. Personally I don't think they would deny you, since the job offer is in the US (shows intent to re-establish residence) and the amount is way over the poverty lines. Then again, I am not always right (just don't ell my husband )

[Dakine 26]

Go back to the US a start the $50,000 job. If you are already working it will make a BIG difference.

You will be solid with domicle then also.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Dakine

[tackymonkey 0]

Hi there. In our case, we did have a joint sponsor. However, from what little I see in your post, the job offer should be enough, since this will put you over the poverty limit. Personally I don't think they would deny you, since the job offer is in the US (shows intent to re-establish residence) and the amount is way over the poverty lines. Then again, I am not always right (just don't ell my husband )

Thanks for the rapid reply Len, I certainly hope you are right :-) I have had some bad luck the last year, the economic down-turn has made it hard for all of us to stay employed I´m sure :-) Ug!

[tackymonkey 0]

Go back to the US a start the $50,000 job. If you are already working it will make a BIG difference.

You will be solid with domicle then also.

Hi, thanks :-) That is my plan. But I don´t know if my job start will produce a paystub prior to his inteview which I´m guessing will be in Mid November and my start date for the job is also mid November.

Do you mean delay his interview until after my official work start date, and then send him to the interview armed with and I-864 showing "current" instead of future income (as it will be now)? I hope I have you right? I wonder If I can do that after I arrive in the US and begin work but before I get issued a first paystub (and just state that it is present income), or if I have to wait until after I get paid and then scan the paystub and email it to my spouse to take to his inteview?

I do have an offer letter already that I submitted along with our initial I-130 application and acover letter stateing the circumstances

Sorry for all the questions

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Could you get a "renewed offer letter" of sorts for him to take to the interview? So that they know the offer still stands. I don't know about postponing the interview. Darn. You might want to contact other VJ members who have done DCF in Germany and see what they say.

and ask as much as you need to, that's what this site is about.

[tackymonkey 0]

Could you get a "renewed offer letter" of sorts for him to take to the interview? So that they know the offer still stands. I don't know about postponing the interview. Darn. You might want to contact other VJ members who have done DCF in Germany and see what they say.

and ask as much as you need to, that's what this site is about.

Thank you :-)

Yes, postponing is not ideal.

I was thinking about that as well. Perhaps a letter confirming my "current" employment rather than one stating a future start date might be good. I could rush that to him via email within days of arriving (without infringing on an interview date) as a scan from the US, but it will not be an original document of course. I don´t think I could get it from them without going ot the US and starting first though...lol :-) I wish I could. I suppose it doesn´t hurt to ask.

If this new letter says something like "so and so has been hired by us at the salary of x amount of dollars per year" rather than what I have now.

The letter they have now at the consulate has a start date, salary, and is a sort of "welcome aboard" letter from the employer

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Exactly right. I like that idea. Let's hope peepz come in and give you more advice.

[tibortt 0]

Hi,

We are pretty much in the same situation, but my husband made well over the poverty line in Ireland and had a job offer letter which confirmed that he could start between Augustus 31 and November 02, because they understood our situation. My interview was on the 29th of September (Tuesday), my husband left on the 2nd of October (Friday) and started to work on the 5th (next Monday). So, he is working and seeking for a co-sponsor in the State while our 3 years old son (USC as well) and me are still in Ireland and waiting for my visa. I'd like to go back to Hungary until he will find someone, because I am a Hungarian national, but this is another question.

They ignored the job letter (didn't want to see it not even the purchased flight ticket) and our situation that we have a little fellow. They kept saying we need a co-sponsor. Now we know, it would have been better if he just hop on a plain and starts to work in September before my interview but we just didn't want to be apart.

I don't want to scare you, every consulates are different (hopefully in Germany they are more sympathetic). I just like to share our experience.

So I agree with that: go to the States, and get a letter confirming your "current" employment as you said, but before you go it's worth to ask them first. I suppose they know your situation and they'll be willing to make a new letter, it doesn't cost them anyway.

If your spouse get an interview date after your official work start date, I would definitely go back and start to work. As *Dakine* said "it will make a big difference". You might be lucky and be able to show payslip as well.

Hopefully everything works out good for you. Wish you all the best!

[tackymonkey 0]

Hi,

We are pretty much in the same situation, but my husband made well over the poverty line in Ireland and had a job offer letter which confirmed that he could start between Augustus 31 and November 02, because they understood our situation. My interview was on the 29th of September (Tuesday), my husband left on the 2nd of October (Friday) and started to work on the 5th (next Monday). So, he is working and seeking for a co-sponsor in the State while our 3 years old son (USC as well) and me are still in Ireland and waiting for my visa. I'd like to go back to Hungary until he will find someone, because I am a Hungarian national, but this is another question.

They ignored the job letter (didn't want to see it not even the purchased flight ticket) and our situation that we have a little fellow. They kept saying we need a co-sponsor. Now we know, it would have been better if he just hop on a plain and starts to work in September before my interview but we just didn't want to be apart.

I don't want to scare you, every consulates are different (hopefully in Germany they are more sympathetic). I just like to share our experience.

So I agree with that: go to the States, and get a letter confirming your "current" employment as you said, but before you go it's worth to ask them first. I suppose they know your situation and they'll be willing to make a new letter, it doesn't cost them anyway.

If your spouse get an interview date after your official work start date, I would definitely go back and start to work. As *Dakine* said "it will make a big difference". You might be lucky and be able to show payslip as well.

Hopefully everything works out good for you. Wish you all the best!

Yes, sounds very similar :-) So sorry for your situation :-(

Thank you so much for posting!!

and I am starting to see a pattern here that tells me that either a letter stating I am "currently employed" (rather than future employed) or returning before him to start my job might be the only two ways. I am scared that if I take a chance with the consulate it MIGHT work out, but the risk of denial seems to be running at about 70% right now. The UK consulate website also has advice alone these lines. Can´t find any from Germany. The gambler in me wants to take the chance, but I think that I don’t want to gamble on my husband´s Visa.

If anyone else has any first hand experiences with this job offer thing via DCF (especially from Germany) I´d love to hear about it.

[tackymonkey 0]

Hi,

We are pretty much in the same situation, but my husband made well over the poverty line in Ireland and had a job offer letter which confirmed that he could start between Augustus 31 and November 02, because they understood our situation. My interview was on the 29th of September (Tuesday), my husband left on the 2nd of October (Friday) and started to work on the 5th (next Monday). So, he is working and seeking for a co-sponsor in the State while our 3 years old son (USC as well) and me are still in Ireland and waiting for my visa. I'd like to go back to Hungary until he will find someone, because I am a Hungarian national, but this is another question.

They ignored the job letter (didn't want to see it not even the purchased flight ticket) and our situation that we have a little fellow. They kept saying we need a co-sponsor. Now we know, it would have been better if he just hop on a plain and starts to work in September before my interview but we just didn't want to be apart.

I don't want to scare you, every consulates are different (hopefully in Germany they are more sympathetic). I just like to share our experience.

So I agree with that: go to the States, and get a letter confirming your "current" employment as you said, but before you go it's worth to ask them first. I suppose they know your situation and they'll be willing to make a new letter, it doesn't cost them anyway.

If your spouse get an interview date after your official work start date, I would definitely go back and start to work. As *Dakine* said "it will make a big difference". You might be lucky and be able to show payslip as well.

Hopefully everything works out good for you. Wish you all the best!

Hi Tiborrt,

After scanning your post a second time I have a question for you. You mentioned that your husband will be starting soon at work (Monday) and will then have proof of employment but the Irish consulate is STILL asking you to find a co-sponsor even though your husband could just submit a paystub instead prooving current employment? I wonder why that is?

[tibortt 0]

I wonder myself too...

They didn't even take a look at the job offer letter and other proofs (flight ticket, domicile). All other papers were fine, no question, they only had problem with the Affidavit of Support, because as they said "foreign earned income doesn't count". All of us (my husband, our son and me) were up in Dublin at the interview.

I called them regarding my return to Hungary and I also mentioned that my husband is working but nothing has changed. Everybody says that the Irish Embassy is an easy one, but I don't agree with that. They kept my passport, because they assumed we can get a sponsor immediately, and we were told that as soon as they receive the sponsor's Affidavit of Support they will send my passport back with the visa in it. Now I have to write a letter and ask for my passport if I want to go back to Hungary. But I will call them next Monday and will ask about the payslip again. We NEVER give up, it has to be some other solution which is more appreciate. Hopefully it's just a misunderstanding between the Irish consulate and us.

[tackymonkey 0]

I wonder myself too...

They didn't even take a look at the job offer letter and other proofs (flight ticket, domicile). All other papers were fine, no question, they only had problem with the Affidavit of Support, because as they said "foreign earned income doesn't count". All of us (my husband, our son and me) were up in Dublin at the interview.

I called them regarding my return to Hungary and I also mentioned that my husband is working but nothing has changed. Everybody says that the Irish Embassy is an easy one, but I don't agree with that. They kept my passport, because they assumed we can get a sponsor immediately, and we were told that as soon as they receive the sponsor's Affidavit of Support they will send my passport back with the visa in it. Now I have to write a letter and ask for my passport if I want to go back to Hungary. But I will call them next Monday and will ask about the payslip again. We NEVER give up, it has to be some other solution which is more appreciate. Hopefully it's just a misunderstanding between the Irish consulate and us.

Hi,

First off. Take a look at this website link for the London Consulate.

http://www.usembassy.org.uk/visaservices/?p=953

It applies to both of our situations. Note that the consulate tells this man directly that a copy of only his first pay stub (not the first six months) IS sufficient to satisfy their needs for the I-864 as "current" income (I-864 line #23). I would ask them this before you have them send back your passport and leave. I’m afraid if they give you back the passport it might cause further delays for you or even force you to re-file? Don’t take my word on that I am a newbie here. Someone else here could better answer that question?

- Does anyone here know if your first pay stub was sufficient after going to the US, or do you need to submit 6 months worth as the instructions on the I-864 suggest? I would like to know the answer to this question for both your sake and mine.

If that’s true, then this implies a ridiculous and automatic six months separation from you spouse (which would technically cause you to loose your foreign residency in the foreign country) and thereby eliminating your ability to file DCF as a foreign resident in the first place. How ridiculous. That’s a catch-22. I hope I am wrong.

[trailmix 77]

I think what happens - and this is just my personal opinion - is that they state what they want at the interview, or rather during the interview and they are not interested in backtracking and making another decision - ie: sure just 1 pay stub will suffice - or no you don't need and I-864a for the cosponsor's spouse that filed taxes with them etc etc

Tacky, you mention that the rate of denial seems to be running at around 70% right now - so are you saying that you have found that approximately 30% of the cases you have seen on VJ (with a similar job offer scenario) have been approved at the consulate?

It would seem, from their guidelines, that proof of a new job (actually having started working - not a job offer on paper) - at the interview stage (not after necessarily) may well be sufficient - of course as you know, all too well, it's completely up to the discretion of the CO.

From the Adjudicator's Field Manual - enforceable affidavits of support:

USCIS, however, may consider other evidence of income (e.g., pay stub(s), employer letter(s), or both), if (1) the sponsor establishes that he/she was not legally obligated to file a Federal income tax return for the most recent tax year, or (2) USCIS determines that the income listed on the Federal tax return for the sponsor’s most recent tax year does not meet the governing threshold.

In other words, if the sponsor’s current income is sufficient, it can establish that the Form I-864 itself is sufficient even if the tax return without any other documentation might warrant a finding that it is not sufficient. For example, if the sponsor recently started a new job (that USCIS is satisfied will likely continue) and the income from the job now meets or exceeds the legal requirement, USCIS may find the Affidavit of Support to be sufficient, notwithstanding information included in the transcript or copy of the tax return(s).

Edited October 10, 2009 by trailmix

[tackymonkey 0]

I think what happens - and this is just my personal opinion - is that they state what they want at the interview, or rather during the interview and they are not interested in backtracking and making another decision - ie: sure just 1 pay stub will suffice - or no you don't need and I-864a for the cosponsor's spouse that filed taxes with them etc etc

Tacky, you mention that the rate of denial seems to be running at around 70% right now - so are you saying that you have found that approximately 30% of the cases you have seen on VJ (with a similar job offer scenario) have been approved at the consulate?

It would seem, from their guidelines, that proof of a new job (actually having started working - not a job offer on paper) - at the interview stage (not after necessarily) may well be sufficient - of course as you know, all too well, it's completely up to the discretion of the CO.

From the Adjudicator's Field Manual - enforceable affidavits of support:

USCIS, however, may consider other evidence of income (e.g., pay stub(s), employer letter(s), or both), if (1) the sponsor establishes that he/she was not legally obligated to file a Federal income tax return for the most recent tax year, or (2) USCIS determines that the income listed on the Federal tax return for the sponsor’s most recent tax year does not meet the governing threshold.

In other words, if the sponsor’s current income is sufficient, it can establish that the Form I-864 itself is sufficient even if the tax return without any other documentation might warrant a finding that it is not sufficient. For example, if the sponsor recently started a new job (that USCIS is satisfied will likely continue) and the income from the job now meets or exceeds the legal requirement, USCIS may find the Affidavit of Support to be sufficient, notwithstanding information included in the transcript or copy of the tax return(s).

Hello Trailmix,

Thanks for the thorough response. And thank you for tracking down the very specific info. That pretty much nails it for me. I don’t think they want to backtrack either. And I don’t know what their holding process is or if they even have one that gives you time?? If they truly do want to only see you once and then it’s goodbye, then I think you are dead on right.

I can now clearly see it is really best to go ahead of your spouse BEFORE the interview and start your job so your spouse can supply a letter (at the interview) saying you are already employed rather than one showing future employment and then hope the CO decides in your favor IF you have no assets and no hope of a co-sponsor :-) Am I interpreting this right?

Yes, based on what I have found online (including VJ) it seemed to me that a few were squeaking by with this - granted I was not sure of the specifics of their cases. And, based on what the Frankfurt office told me, I "may or may not" qualify but they "couldn’t tell me until the interview" can be read one of two ways I suppose. Either the glass is half empty or half full :-)

But the info you have provided and the way you interpret it makes a lot of sense to me.

My only hope was to have my employer craft a letter saying “so and so is currently employed with us at x amount of dollars per year” so I could stay for my husbands interview to help him through it. But, I think this would be suspicious as how can I be working at a job in the US when I’m physically at the interview abroad (unless I said I flew back)?…lol. I wonder if this will work, or should I just admit defeat on go on the US to start my job? Arrg So I guess it’s fly away now and begin the job before his interview or risk being eaten