The Return of McCarthyism

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Joe the Plumber was subjected to Mccarthyite harassment?

oh dear. That's one big fat FAIL, right there.

Just applying the same idiotic criteria for McCarthyite harrassment that the OP did. I think my case is stronger than his.

And your opinion on the CIA probes that were conveniently ignored in my original response?

The video does quite a good job of showing how the accusations by the vitriolic Right Wing pundits out there like Glenn Beck and Michael Savage ....calling Obama a full fledged Communist and Dictator echo the same kind of hysteria and demagoguery that Joseph McCarthy was saying during the Red Scare. You either believe these Right Wing pundits to be sincere in what they are saying or you believe they are just exaggerating for the effect - the result is the same...they are drumming up hysteria and outrage.

And wasn't the argument that Joe the Plumber was harrassed under the Bush administration? What administration are Glenn Beck and Michael Savage living under?

Talk about a thread fail . . . But maybe you don't get that McCarthy used the power of the government to harrass his victims. If Glenn Beck and Michael Savage weild that power then what were the media on the other side of the aisle who accused Bush of even more controversial things than communism guilty of?

Oh, the only way you can be practicing McCarthy-like witch-hunting is if you use the word communist. I get it now. I'm sorry. I guess I misunderstood the Crucible analogy. Here I was thinking that Miller's commentary on McCarthyism was more universal. I guess it only applies when someone is being called a communist. I guess when those people don't have the power that the person they are accusing of communism does. It must still be McCarthyism.

Uh oh. I still haven't convinced myself.

This isn't ####### for tat, Gabi (or Vi...not sure who is using the account)...which is what you are trying to argue. This is about the type of talk coming from Talk Show Celebrities of the Right in trying to scare Americans that there's a scary Communist in the White House and he's coming to take away their American way of life.

At least try and show some intellectual integrity and call it for what it is. This idea that somehow because some on the Left attacked Bush with labels makes this above reproach is absurd.

But actually, I think this is good for the Democratic Party. As long as the Republican leaders remain silent and not denounce such demagoguery and hysteria over our newly elected President and his policies - you know...the very ones he campaigned on...the GOP ends up looking like sad, desperate creatures who have no humility for what they've done to this country. Keep it coming....America is listening.

[Ban Hammer 14,665]

Joe the Plumber was subjected to Mccarthyite harassment?

oh dear. That's one big fat FAIL, right there.

No kidding. This is just so stupid, it's beyond even giving it any real thought.

as if you could ...

see any rethugs hiding behind your couch today?

i think we know what would be a good costume to wear to steven's for trick or treat!

[Pooky 3,930]

Joe the Plumber was subjected to Mccarthyite harassment?

oh dear. That's one big fat FAIL, right there.

Just applying the same idiotic criteria for McCarthyite harrassment that the OP did. I think my case is stronger than his.

And your opinion on the CIA probes that were conveniently ignored in my original response?

The video does quite a good job of showing how the accusations by the vitriolic Right Wing pundits out there like Glenn Beck and Michael Savage ....calling Obama a full fledged Communist and Dictator echo the same kind of hysteria and demagoguery that Joseph McCarthy was saying during the Red Scare. You either believe these Right Wing pundits to be sincere in what they are saying or you believe they are just exaggerating for the effect - the result is the same...they are drumming up hysteria and outrage.

And wasn't the argument that Joe the Plumber was harrassed under the Bush administration? What administration are Glenn Beck and Michael Savage living under?

Talk about a thread fail . . . But maybe you don't get that McCarthy used the power of the government to harrass his victims. If Glenn Beck and Michael Savage weild that power then what were the media on the other side of the aisle who accused Bush of even more controversial things than communism guilty of?

Oh, the only way you can be practicing McCarthy-like witch-hunting is if you use the word communist. I get it now. I'm sorry. I guess I misunderstood the Crucible analogy. Here I was thinking that Miller's commentary on McCarthyism was more universal. I guess it only applies when someone is being called a communist. I guess when those people don't have the power that the person they are accusing of communism does. It must still be McCarthyism.

Uh oh. I still haven't convinced myself.

This isn't ####### for tat, Gabi (or Vi...not sure who is using the account)...which is what you are trying to argue. This is about the type of talk coming from Talk Show Celebrities of the Right in trying to scare Americans that there's a scary Communist in the White House and he's coming to take away their American way of life.

At least try and show some intellectual integrity and call it for what it is. This idea that somehow because some on the Left attacked Bush with labels makes this above reproach is absurd.

But actually, I think this is good for the Democratic Party. As long as the Republican leaders remain silent and not denounce such demagoguery and hysteria over our newly elected President and his policies - you know...the very ones he campaigned on...the GOP ends up looking like sad, desperate creatures who have no humility for what they've done to this country. Keep it coming....America is listening.

Bad as talk radio may be, they are not "in power", per se. Nancy Pelosi, on the other hand, when she calls people exercising their constitutional rights to free speech by protesting about healthcare reform at town hall meetings unpatriotic, fits the bill quite nicely.

In this debate, the pendulum swings both ways. But only one way has the power of government to back it up. And it's not talk radio.

[GabiandVi 34]

Joe the Plumber was subjected to Mccarthyite harassment?

oh dear. That's one big fat FAIL, right there.

Just applying the same idiotic criteria for McCarthyite harrassment that the OP did. I think my case is stronger than his.

And your opinion on the CIA probes that were conveniently ignored in my original response?

The video does quite a good job of showing how the accusations by the vitriolic Right Wing pundits out there like Glenn Beck and Michael Savage ....calling Obama a full fledged Communist and Dictator echo the same kind of hysteria and demagoguery that Joseph McCarthy was saying during the Red Scare. You either believe these Right Wing pundits to be sincere in what they are saying or you believe they are just exaggerating for the effect - the result is the same...they are drumming up hysteria and outrage.

And wasn't the argument that Joe the Plumber was harrassed under the Bush administration? What administration are Glenn Beck and Michael Savage living under?

Talk about a thread fail . . . But maybe you don't get that McCarthy used the power of the government to harrass his victims. If Glenn Beck and Michael Savage weild that power then what were the media on the other side of the aisle who accused Bush of even more controversial things than communism guilty of?

Oh, the only way you can be practicing McCarthy-like witch-hunting is if you use the word communist. I get it now. I'm sorry. I guess I misunderstood the Crucible analogy. Here I was thinking that Miller's commentary on McCarthyism was more universal. I guess it only applies when someone is being called a communist. I guess when those people don't have the power that the person they are accusing of communism does. It must still be McCarthyism.

Uh oh. I still haven't convinced myself.

This isn't ####### for tat, Gabi (or Vi...not sure who is using the account)...which is what you are trying to argue. This is about the type of talk coming from Talk Show Celebrities of the Right in trying to scare Americans that there's a scary Communist in the White House and he's coming to take away their American way of life.

At least try and show some intellectual integrity and call it for what it is. This idea that somehow because some on the Left attacked Bush with labels makes this above reproach is absurd.

But actually, I think this is good for the Democratic Party. As long as the Republican leaders remain silent and not denounce such demagoguery and hysteria over our newly elected President and his policies - you know...the very ones he campaigned on...the GOP ends up looking like sad, desperate creatures who have no humility for what they've done to this country. Keep it coming....America is listening.

Forget it, Batty. You don't even understand your own argument. I'm not going to try to explain it to you any more. If you see McCarthyism in a fraction of the media calling the man in the most powerful position in the country "bad names" then that's what you see. If you consider that to be intellectual integrity, then I don't have time to waste on your "intellect."

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Joe the Plumber was subjected to Mccarthyite harassment?

oh dear. That's one big fat FAIL, right there.

No kidding. This is just so stupid, it's beyond even giving it any real thought.

as if you could ...

see any rethugs hiding behind your couch today?

i think we know what would be a good costume to wear to steven's for trick or treat!

What we dressin up like a quarter?

[GabiandVi 34]

McCarthyism - the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence.

....

The term is also now used more generally to describe reckless, unsubstantiated accusations, as well as demagogic attacks on the character or patriotism of political adversaries.

How far off is that definition of the treatment of Joe the Plumber?

The highlighted part, perhaps? It's not like the issues that Joe had were someone's fantasy or made up to make the guy look bad. Those were real, actual issues that the man had. That's far from "unsubstantiated". The communist death panels, on the other hand... Well, get it now?

So, when a private citizen asks a legitimate question of a political candidate who is out and about to answer questions of private citizens and the candidate's answer embarrasses him, it is okay to look into the background of the private citizen? And publicize it? And hound him? And what issues did he have that were substantiated by this "legitimate" investigation of his background? Did he do anything illegal?

If you support this sort of treatment of a private citizen for asking a question, if you think he deserved that treatment because he had some problems in his past then you deserve what you get. I hope you never farted in public or sent an ugly email or posted a self-righteous comment on a forum such as VJ that could be used against you someday. I have done nothing illegal in my past, except to speed here and there. I have nothing I consider immoral beyond calling people names and lying to my dad sometimes about where I was going, etc. But I don't want people looking into my background and making it public. I've made stupid mistakes. I've made bad decisions in my life. I don't want those things shared with the world. If I did, I'd become a public figure, like Obama has done. But if it is okay to do this to someone because they asked a question of a politician who was the darling of the media and the woman who illegally investigated Joe the Plumber, then you can bet I won't be asking any questions of politicians. Is that the world you want to live in? It reminds me a lot of what was going on during the McCarthy era. Do YOU get it now?

[rebeccajo 14]

McCain was the one who latched onto Joe's comments to Obama. If that had not occurred, the question would have been old news overnight.

Put the blame where the blame belongs - McCain once again not 'vetting' somebody.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

McCain was the one who latched onto Joe's comments to Obama. If that had not occurred, the question would have been old news overnight.

Put the blame where the blame belongs - McCain once again not 'vetting' somebody.

Whos lock are you latchin onto? False promises?

[GabiandVi 34]

McCain was the one who latched onto Joe's comments to Obama. If that had not occurred, the question would have been old news overnight.

Put the blame where the blame belongs - McCain once again not 'vetting' somebody.

Are you serious? Are you going to blame McCain for the illegal actions of an Obama supporter? Are you going to blame McCain for what the media did to the guy? Does no one have to take personal responsibility?

Love Joe the Plumber or hate him. You can't think what was done to him was a good thing. Seriously. Can you? I mean even if you secretly revel in his discomfort, you can't actually want this to be what happens to private citizens who ask questions of polititians.

And McCain didn't have to latch on to anything. Obama knew he had put his foot in his mouth. Everybody knew he had. That's why Joe got the treatment he did. If Obama had glossed that one over, no one would ever have looked at Joe the Plumber twice. You have to admit that.

[rebeccajo 14]

McCain was the one who latched onto Joe's comments to Obama. If that had not occurred, the question would have been old news overnight.

Put the blame where the blame belongs - McCain once again not 'vetting' somebody.

Are you serious? Are you going to blame McCain for the illegal actions of an Obama supporter? Are you going to blame McCain for what the media did to the guy? Does no one have to take personal responsibility?

Love Joe the Plumber or hate him. You can't think what was done to him was a good thing. Seriously. Can you? I mean even if you secretly revel in his discomfort, you can't actually want this to be what happens to private citizens who ask questions of polititians.

And McCain didn't have to latch on to anything. Obama knew he had put his foot in his mouth. Everybody knew he had. That's why Joe got the treatment he did. If Obama had glossed that one over, no one would ever have looked at Joe the Plumber twice. You have to admit that.

I'm not 'blaming' anybody. I'm just stating my opinion as to why Joe ended up being put through the 'media mill'.

As for "McCarthyism" - the modern day usage of the phrase has come to mean any baseless political allegation. The allegation does not have to be leveled by a person of power for it to fit what we now refer to as "McCarthyism".

A language parallel would be "Machiavellian".

[HAL 9000 96]

Yeah maybe I missed it... but I'm trying to figure out how the people in power messed with poor ole Joe.

Sure- treating people harshly is what some of the media does... and it gets plenty condemnation on all sides. Period.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

McCain made Joe the Plumber a figurehead for his election campaign. Not only that Joe chose to participate.

This is kind of what happens when you put yourself in the firing line of public life.

[GabiandVi 34]

McCain was the one who latched onto Joe's comments to Obama. If that had not occurred, the question would have been old news overnight.

Put the blame where the blame belongs - McCain once again not 'vetting' somebody.

Are you serious? Are you going to blame McCain for the illegal actions of an Obama supporter? Are you going to blame McCain for what the media did to the guy? Does no one have to take personal responsibility?

Love Joe the Plumber or hate him. You can't think what was done to him was a good thing. Seriously. Can you? I mean even if you secretly revel in his discomfort, you can't actually want this to be what happens to private citizens who ask questions of polititians.

And McCain didn't have to latch on to anything. Obama knew he had put his foot in his mouth. Everybody knew he had. That's why Joe got the treatment he did. If Obama had glossed that one over, no one would ever have looked at Joe the Plumber twice. You have to admit that.

I'm not 'blaming' anybody. I'm just stating my opinion as to why Joe ended up being put through the 'media mill'.

As for "McCarthyism" - the modern day usage of the phrase has come to mean any baseless political allegation. The allegation does not have to be leveled by a person of power for it to fit what we now refer to as "McCarthyism".

A language parallel would be "Machiavellian".

Well, I beg to differ as to why he was put through the media mill. I remember it happening the moment Obama left the scene. He knew he had put his foot in his mouth and so did everyone covering the walk and talk. Those out to get him began their attacks because of that. Not because of McCain's heralding of him. McCain picked up Joe the Plumber after he became the victim of the unfair scrutiny because he represented so much more by that time.

[GabiandVi 34]

McCain made Joe the Plumber a figurehead for his election campaign. Not only that Joe chose to participate.

This is kind of what happens when you put yourself in the firing line of public life.

Joe the Plumber became a figurehead in McCain's election campaign because he had immediately been put in the firing line. Not the other way around. The background checks began immediately after Obama answered the question, not after McCain took Joe in. The media continued hounding him, but it wasn't McCain's support that instigated the scrutinizing.

Yeah maybe I missed it... but I'm trying to figure out how the people in power messed with poor ole Joe.

Sure- treating people harshly is what some of the media does... and it gets plenty condemnation on all sides. Period.

Do you think you could survive unscathed the scrutiny Joe the Plumber went under? I don't think I could and I seriously doubt anyone on VJ could.

[HAL 9000 96]

McCain made Joe the Plumber a figurehead for his election campaign. Not only that Joe chose to participate.

This is kind of what happens when you put yourself in the firing line of public life.

Joe the Plumber became a figurehead in McCain's election campaign because he had immediately been put in the firing line. Not the other way around. The background checks began immediately after Obama answered the question, not after McCain took Joe in. The media continued hounding him, but it wasn't McCain's support that instigated the scrutinizing.

Yeah maybe I missed it... but I'm trying to figure out how the people in power messed with poor ole Joe.

Sure- treating people harshly is what some of the media does... and it gets plenty condemnation on all sides. Period.

Do you think you could survive unscathed the scrutiny Joe the Plumber went under? I don't think I could and I seriously doubt anyone on VJ could.

I don't know where that would be relevant unless I made a false claim about my business being unfairly targeted for a tax increase that didn't exist.