Another idiot with a gun

[JVKn'CVO 11]

So sad - poor victims and their family

Saludos,

Caro

[thepizzadude 26]

I don't see what the fuss is about personally - the title of the thread is correct:

Another idiot with a gun.

But you know how these threads go. They quickly devolve into a "You can't take my guns away" and "slippery slope" type of argumetnts completely devoid of any actual argument.

Of course.

Meanwhile, the story continues to be about an idiot. With a gun.

Already been covered in first few pages. Everyone is aware their are idiots that own guns, and knives, and 2x4's, cars, houses etc....

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't see what the fuss is about personally - the title of the thread is correct:

Another idiot with a gun.

But you know how these threads go. They quickly devolve into a "You can't take my guns away" and "slippery slope" type of argumetnts completely devoid of any actual argument.

Of course.

Meanwhile, the story continues to be about an idiot. With a gun.

Already been covered in first few pages. Everyone is aware their are idiots that own guns, and knives, and 2x4's, cars, houses etc....

And pizzas.

[thepizzadude 26]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/06/louisi...ings/index.html

(CNN) -- A man shot his estranged wife to death, along with their son and grandson, before turning the gun on himself as police closed in, authorities in Livingston Parish, Louisiana, said Sunday.

Police say Dennis Carter Sr. shot four family members, three fatally, before turning the gun on himself.

Dennis Carter Sr., 50, also shot and critically injured his pregnant daughter-in-law, the parish sheriff's office said in a statement. The shootings occurred Saturday night in the town of Holden, Louisiana.

Authorities were dispatched to a report of shots fired at a home about 10:40 p.m. Upon arrival, they found three people dead and the fourth -- Amber Carter, 25 -- in critical condition, the statement said.

Those killed were Dennis Carter Jr., 26, Amber Carter's husband; their son Mason Carter, 2; and 49-year-old Donna Carter, mother of Dennis Carter Jr. and estranged wife of Dennis Carter Sr., police said. All had been shot to death. A 16-month-old child at the home was unharmed, authorities said.

Deputies believe Amber Carter attempted to escape from the gunman by jumping from a second-story window, holding Mason in her arms, the statement said, but the boy did not survive his gunshot wounds.

Amber Carter had several bullet wounds, said Perry Rushing, chief of operations for the sheriff's office, and authorities believe the gunman shot her in the back as she was attempting to get out the window while holding the child. She also may have been shot again after she got outside the home, Rushing told CNN.

Amber Carter was flown to a Baton Rouge, Louisiana, hospital, and later transferred to New Orleans, Rushing said. She was in critical condition as of Sunday morning.

A neighbor in the area told deputies that he heard a gunshot and saw Carter Sr. walking to a car, a red El Camino, with a gun in his hand, the sheriff's statement said.

At 11:30 p.m., a police officer in the adjacent town of Livingston saw the vehicle entering Interstate 12 heading eastbound, the statement said. A Livingston Parish sheriff's deputy followed the car and attempted to stop it. "However, the suspect shot himself with a handgun, in plain view of the officers, as the vehicle veered off the shoulder of the interstate near the Holden exit," police said.

Records from the Livingston Parish Detention Center show that Dennis Carter Sr., of Hammond, Louisiana, had been jailed "on three separate occasions in 2009 alone, on three separate charges of violation of a protective order and one charge of aggravated assault (domestic)," the sheriff's office said.

"At this time, there do not appear to be any other suspects or victims in this ongoing investigation," police said.

Holden is about 35 miles east of Baton Rouge.

Keep readin! You'll get there!

Is there something about this that alludes you?

I did not start the thread to advocate overall gun control. I started the thread to have a discussion about WHETHER OR NOT someone who has been certified unstable, or who has had a recent mental health commitment, should be allowed to possess a gun.

In case you missed it, the original question was whether or not someone who has had a mental health commitment or has in some way been certified mentally unstable should be forced to surrender their weapons.

UM Where...? Are you talking about the 8th post in the thread where you postulated about "what if" scenarios? Come on tell us the truth, why did you really start the thread?

OK I did what you said and I kept reading and I still haven't got there, where in the 1st post and I mean the original post was anything said about "I started the thread to have a discussion about WHETHER OR NOT someone who has been certified unstable, or who has had a recent mental health commitment, should be allowed to possess a gun" Where in the story did it say anything about this guys mental health.

Maybe it's just me or something but how is someone supposed to figure out what you wanted to talk about from what you posted? The topic title "Another idiot with a gun" sure doesn't say hey lets talk about "I started the thread to have a discussion about WHETHER OR NOT someone who has been certified unstable, or who has had a recent mental health commitment, should be allowed to possess a gun" and your unwillingness to expound on your reasoning for that title until later in the thread makes one believe what I stated earlier "So back to the original You don't really know what the heck you were posting it for except to say ANOTHER idiot with a GUN..."

Help me help you... I think you started this thread to start the usual "i'm keepin my guns"/"ya'll ain't taking my guns"/"guns are whats wrong in the world" thread. C'mon admit the truth....you were just trollin' weren't ya?

[rebeccajo 14]

I wonder if you can make a frisbee from a pizza?

[thepizzadude 26]

I wonder if you can make a frisbee from a pizza?

Yah if you keep it out in the air long enough....this is the old if I keep avoiding the issue it will go away trick huh?

[rebeccajo 14]

I wonder if you can make a frisbee from a pizza?

Yah if you keep it out in the air long enough....this is the old if I keep avoiding the issue it will go away trick huh?

Noooooooooooooooooooooo.

pizzadude, I work in a mental health facility. My day at work isn't complete if I don't see people out in the lobby in tears or children hanging from the vending machines. It's not at all uncommon for the occasional client to burst through the lobby doors, cursing and swearing at the top of their lungs, waving their arms and fists. My office is the first one right off the main lobby corridor and sometimes I wonder about my safety. Part of our training is how to arrange our offices so that our furniture isn't placed in such a way that an angry client can't block us from exiting the room. Everybody in the building knows a page for "Dr. Armstrong to Room such and such" means all the big strong men need to hustle to the designated office.

So no - it wasn't trolling. The first thing that came to my mind when I read the article was whether or not this man had sought any help before he broke. I wondered whether or not his family had filed on him or whether or not they anguished with the fear of social stigma or domestic wrath and chose not to file.

I had a very good reason for posting this thread.

Edited September 9, 2009 by rebeccajo

[natty bumppo 297]

Changing attitudes isn't as easy as you might think.

There is the colonial British and Spanish method. I prefer the Spanish myself.

repression ... murder ... rape ... theft ... disease ...

glad to see you're for the finer things in life ...

Strange considering The United States America would not have existed if it had not been for that.

BY forgot to add his shameless braggart plug about AUS being better .....

Edited September 9, 2009 by Natty Bumppo

[thepizzadude 26]

I wonder if you can make a frisbee from a pizza?

Yah if you keep it out in the air long enough....this is the old if I keep avoiding the issue it will go away trick huh?

Noooooooooooooooooooooo.

pizzadude, I work in a mental health facility. My day at work isn't complete if I don't see people out in the lobby in tears or children hanging from the vending machines. It's not at all uncommon for the occasional client to burst through the lobby doors, cursing and swearing at the top of their lungs, waving their arms and fists. My office is the first one right off the main lobby corridor and sometimes I wonder about my safety. Part of our training is how to arrange our offices so that our furniture isn't placed in such a way that an angry client can't block us from exiting the room. Everybody in the building knows a page for "Dr. Armstrong to Room such and such" means all the big strong men need to hustle to the designated office.

So no - it wasn't trolling. The first thing that came to my mind when I read the article was whether or not this man had sought any help before he broke. I wondered whether or not his family had filed on him or whether or not they anguished with the fear of social stigma or domestic wrath and chose not to file.

I had a very good reason for posting this thread.

Well then thats a horse of a different color...some states have laws against an individual who is mentally incompetent or is a convicted drug or alcohol abuser even getting a permit to carry a weapon.

In Indiana it states...Firearms dealers or private individuals may not sell any firearm to someone less than 18 years old, or less than 23 years old if the buyer was "adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult", or to a person who is mentally incompetent or is a drug or alcohol abuser." It is not like this in all states though as it should be. Some states won't let you carry a weapon if you are behind in your child support, so as you can see the laws enacted by each state are widely varied.

Anyone who is unstable is obviously not a good candidate not only for reasons of safety to others but their own safety as well. IMHO it should be an across the board in all states requirement to not issue permits to anyone who has an mental illness or domestic battery conviction in their background. But to say we should take them away just because the family says they may have problems opens a whole new can of worms. As with the abuse issue that many women and some men have come to use so well in the court systems to get even with their ex spouses or boyfriends, it is too easy to just say you were threatened and have a court deem you unfit with no real proof whatsoever.

Who is to know what really happened in this case but I still stand by my comment "Another idiot with a gun" was not the best title to arrive at answers to your supposed questions.

[HAL 9000 96]

I want pizza today.

[Ban Hammer 14,268]

I want pizza today.

you too?

[justashooter 430]

Well then thats a horse of a different color...some states have laws against an individual who is mentally incompetent or is a convicted drug or alcohol abuser even getting a permit to carry a weapon.

In Indiana it states...Firearms dealers or private individuals may not sell any firearm to someone less than 18 years old, or less than 23 years old if the buyer was "adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult", or to a person who is mentally incompetent or is a drug or alcohol abuser." It is not like this in all states though as it should be.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f4473.pdf

you're completely wrong in your interpretation of the law. see the linked federal form 4773 (ATF 5300.9) in which you must answer questions about criminal conviction, drug addiction, ajudication of mental incompetency, PFA, etc. after you fill out this form the dealer calls it in and verifies through the national instant criminal check system (NICS). if you lie it will show up in the NICS check.

in regard to mental incompetency: there is specific due process that has been upheld by federal courts defining the disqualifier. it is not a matter of what rebecca jo thinks from her reception desk at a clinic. it is the process of court ordered involuntary commitment.

[justashooter 430]

pizzadude, I work in a mental health facility. My day at work isn't complete if I don't see people out in the lobby in tears or children hanging from the vending machines. It's not at all uncommon for the occasional client to burst through the lobby doors, cursing and swearing at the top of their lungs, waving their arms and fists. My office is the first one right off the main lobby corridor and sometimes I wonder about my safety.

I had a very good reason for posting this thread.

now that explains a lot about your twisted perception of society. spending your days watching people act crazy leaves you with the impression that most of society is crazy, and you and your intimates are the only sane ones on this rock. same thing happens with cops and criminals, guards and inmates, nurses and sick people, etc. you have to learn to separate the experience, or it will skew your viewpoint.

speaking out your personal fears is never a good reason for posting a thread, but it does tell us a lot about your psyche.

[thepizzadude 26]

Well then thats a horse of a different color...some states have laws against an individual who is mentally incompetent or is a convicted drug or alcohol abuser even getting a permit to carry a weapon.

In Indiana it states...Firearms dealers or private individuals may not sell any firearm to someone less than 18 years old, or less than 23 years old if the buyer was "adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult", or to a person who is mentally incompetent or is a drug or alcohol abuser." It is not like this in all states though as it should be.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f4473.pdf

you're completely wrong in your interpretation of the law. see the linked federal form 4773 (ATF 5300.9) in which you must answer questions about criminal conviction, drug addiction, ajudication of mental incompetency, PFA, etc. after you fill out this form the dealer calls it in and verifies through the national instant criminal check system (NICS). if you lie it will show up in the NICS check.

in regard to mental incompetency: there is specific due process that has been upheld by federal courts defining the disqualifier. it is not a matter of what rebecca jo thinks from her reception desk at a clinic. it is the process of court ordered involuntary commitment.

Actually I'm not...I said state laws that pertain to receiving a gun PERMIT. The form you link to is for over the counter firearms sales by a retail business which has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I don't know if you are aware I am allowed to buy a gun from an individual owner and he does not have to ask any questions to sell it to me. Then I go to the state and get myself a gun permit, and all states have different laws pertaining to gun ownership. Even though the state laws say individuals are not allowed to sell firearms to a person who is mentally incompetent, there is no way to assure it doesn't happen.

[Heracles 417]

Actually I'm not...I said state laws that pertain to receiving a gun PERMIT. The form you link to is for over the counter firearms sales by a retail business which has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I don't know if you are aware I am allowed to buy a gun from an individual owner and he does not have to ask any questions to sell it to me. Then I go to the state and get myself a gun permit, and all states have different laws pertaining to gun ownership. Even though the state laws say individuals are not allowed to sell firearms to a person who is mentally incompetent, there is no way to assure it doesn't happen.

Well I bought a gun and was not even a citizen. And you guys know how much of a crazy ###### I am :lol:

There are just to many loopholes here.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Booyah!