Harvard scholar's arrest raises profiling questions

[HAL 9000 96]

bum #4 for looking up:

This is in fact what many officers do once establishing there is no crime to book. Temporarily detain and release with an apology once clearing the 'suspect.' I smell a bit of individualistic attitude from the professor (health, arrogance, racial defensiveness based on likely history of facing racism in the past, etc) and attitude from the arresting officers wanting to show him a lesson for daring to snap back at them. Both are guilty or overreacting, but the police in this case overstepped their authority.

[Fandango 1,440]

Personally, I have a much bigger problem with the huge ego most cops have than I do with racial profiling. There actually are situations where racial profiling makes sense. But to be an insecure little man who lashes out for no good reason never makes sense.

so agreed.

[HAL 9000 96]

see my bumped statement above and then think about the common sense SOPs police follow when responding to reports of breaking and entry.

attitude in this very particular case is NO excuse for abuse of power.

The police are not prone to be broken by words. Sticks and stones... otoh...

I agree, attitude is no excuse, and once he produced id, that should have been the end of that....but to accuse the cops of profiling in this case is just stupid. They were called. They investigated, asked for id, he refused, etc. How is that profiling? What should the cops have done instead of asking for id?

I don't think he should have been arrested afterwards, I do think it's a judgment call that didn't need to be made...the guy was obviously uncooperative...well, the cops should have just gone about their day, and not looked to 'prove a point'...but asking for the id? Not profiling.

By what the call to police claims in the breaking and entering.

Asking for ID is not profiling, correct. Arresting a black man at his house after getting a report of two black folks breaking and entering a house is profiling.

It's not profiling if you get a call for service where there is a physical description of the perpetrators for a specific incident.

right. That's not profiling.

I assume there is no actual match that fits the service call.

So I wonder... if the professor's attitude isn't relevant... then what is in determining just cause to arrest other than a description of the assumed perps? That... is profiling.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Please try to discuss this item without the name calling. I'm sure you can do it if you just tried.

The VJ po-po is here, everyone be nice.

I have a spare taser if Kathryn needs it.

Hehehee, thanks for the offer but I read that article about the taser setting the man on fire - I think I'll stick to warnings and suspensions. But thanks for the thought!

oh hell, I have a can of gasoline and Im heading your way.

[Fandango 1,440]

HAL, what is profiling to you? What exactly did the cops do that is racial?

[HAL 9000 96]

see my bumped statement above and then think about the common sense SOPs police follow when responding to reports of breaking and entry.

attitude in this very particular case is NO excuse for abuse of power.

The police are not prone to be broken by words. Sticks and stones... otoh...

I agree, attitude is no excuse, and once he produced id, that should have been the end of that....but to accuse the cops of profiling in this case is just stupid. They were called. They investigated, asked for id, he refused, etc. How is that profiling? What should the cops have done instead of asking for id?

I don't think he should have been arrested afterwards, I do think it's a judgment call that didn't need to be made...the guy was obviously uncooperative...well, the cops should have just gone about their day, and not looked to 'prove a point'...but asking for the id? Not profiling.

By what the call to police claims in the breaking and entering.

Asking for ID is not profiling, correct. Arresting a black man at his house after getting a report of two black folks breaking and entering a house is profiling.

No, it's not....he was by reports uncooperative, and the cops decided to be douchebags. I don't agree with the arrest, but I think it was more an ego thing from the cops rather than a profiling thing.

That's probably true and I incline to agree more with this based on the previously mentioned ego trips many officers have.

Profiling is something that many people do inadvertently- which is why its very difficult to address. IMO its not like most cops (although MANY do) go on duty with a determinate profiling philosophy.

HAL, what is profiling to you? What exactly did the cops do that is racial?

In that case? More information would be helpful. See my post immediately preceding this one for more info.

[mendeleev 69]

#######? Are you kidding me...people are actually agreeing w/ the police on this one???

Well yes of course, what good reason did this professor have for getting a attidude and pulling out the race card right away. They were there too help him. People here sometimes really amaze me. Where you guys dropped on your head as a kid.

Sorry, but if anyone came over and accused me of trying to get into MY house, there will be plenty of attitude on my part. Count on that. And, for those who do not know prof. Gates from Adam, he is one of the most kind and non-chalant academics you will ever meet: not a diva, so your theory just does not fly. And yes, I know ####### I am talking about.

You dont know him, you dont know what he really is like. Put yourself in the officers shoes. They show up to a house that was reported to have somebody breaking in, they knock on the door and ask to speak to the man and he refuses and pulls out the race card and refuses to give ID. Where would that leave you, to get pissed at these officers is just not rational, the guy had a attitude that was unjustified. The officers at that point didnt know who he was, THE GUY WOULD NOT SHOW HIM HIS ID! It was later when he did. I would be thankful to know that the officers were there to check in on an reported burglary on MY house.

A few weeks ago, cops turned up at my home, accusing me of beating my wife. (Turned out the guy beneath us had been yelling loudly and hitting furniture when his sports team threw away a game in the playoffs. The cops showed *zero* interest in getting to the true bottom of the disturbance in our neighborhood.)

My mistake is that I was cooperative with police. They intimidated my wife and I for over an hour, separately, threatening me, then her, with arrest for ... absolutely nothing at all. Eventually they did leave with making an arrest. It was outrageous. These cops invaded our home, separated us, abused us, without any grounds.

We complained in writing to the chief of police. His written response was essentially ... "Hey, we're the cops. Deal with it. We can do what we want."

By the way, we are white ... maybe that is a reason neither of us got arrested?

There are only two times you need to be afraid of the cops: when you've done something wrong .... and when you haven't.

I dont see your case as being the norm. Did you or didnt you get arrested, you have contradicted yourself. If your wife had no physical evidence of abuse and didnt agree to press charges then they would of overstepped there boundaries by arresting you.

No one was arrested. You're right, I wrote inconsistently.

In my 50+ years, I've never had an encounter with the police. I was inexperienced and naive in adopting a cooperative posture. My wife and I both learned a lesson that night ... police are not our friends. It was a pretty awful experience. In the town in which I live, we have come to learn, from conversations with other law-abiding neighbors, that the police are the most severe threat we face with respect to peaceful enjoyment of life in our own homes.

We subsequently learned that a woman living opposite us was arrested for a nonexistent assault against her husband. There was no physical evidence of assault and the husband denied police accusations of an assault, but she was arrested. (It did not go to trial, but by your criteria, looking up, the police overstepped there (sic) boundaries.)

Yes they did and I would never condone this behavior. I just wouldnt hate every cop because of your experience, I find that most cops are good and mean well.

Well, we have here a situation where my wife and I, and then another completely unrelated person, had similar experience with the police of this county. Maybe not all the cops around here are bad apples, but enough of them are to support my contention. We wrote a formal complaint to the chief of police who wrote back saying, basically, live with it, we're the cops, we can do as we please, and under Colorado law we act with impunity. Kinda makes you rethink things ... I used to think that most "cops are good and mean well."

[Fandango 1,440]

I think it's safer to say most cops have an authoritative ego attitude, and many will lock you up quicker than sneeze if you are deemed to be questioning their authority. Race aside completely...I do believe if the same thing happened to a white man, they would have arrested him as well....

Everyone should note, the guy didn't get arrested for B&E, he got arrested for disorderly conduct.

On a side note, I think it's such a disservice for people to always cry racism when there appears to be none. The facts are, he doesn't own the house, it was dark, obviously his neighbors didn't recognize him..and he and the driver were trying to open a stuck door. I don't know anyone under those circs who wouldn't call the cops...whether they looked white/black/mexican/etc...whether they were women or men....and the cops, coming to ask for id, did not have to be met with the righteous indignation of 'why is it cos I'm black?'

[HAL 9000 96]

I think it's safer to say most cops have an authoritative ego attitude, and many will lock you up quicker than sneeze if you are deemed to be questioning their authority. Race aside completely...I do believe if the same thing happened to a white man, they would have arrested him as well....

Everyone should note, the guy didn't get arrested for B&E, he got arrested for disorderly conduct.

On a side note, I think it's such a disservice for people to always cry racism when there appears to be none. The facts are, he doesn't own the house, it was dark, obviously his neighbors didn't recognize him..and he and the driver were trying to open a stuck door. I don't know anyone under those circs who wouldn't call the cops...whether they looked white/black/mexican/etc...whether they were women or men....and the cops, coming to ask for id, did not have to be met with the righteous indignation of 'why is it cos I'm black?'

Its because racism STILL exists in this country.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I think it's safer to say most cops have an authoritative ego attitude, and many will lock you up quicker than sneeze if you are deemed to be questioning their authority. Race aside completely...I do believe if the same thing happened to a white man, they would have arrested him as well....

Everyone should note, the guy didn't get arrested for B&E, he got arrested for disorderly conduct.

On a side note, I think it's such a disservice for people to always cry racism when there appears to be none. The facts are, he doesn't own the house, it was dark, obviously his neighbors didn't recognize him..and he and the driver were trying to open a stuck door. I don't know anyone under those circs who wouldn't call the cops...whether they looked white/black/mexican/etc...whether they were women or men....and the cops, coming to ask for id, did not have to be met with the righteous indignation of 'why is it cos I'm black?'

Its because racism STILL exists in this country.

so does every other heinous thing but I dont go crying about it everytime a cop knocks on my door.

You can bump that post a million times and one thing will never change you assumed the officer overstepped his authority when in fact you dont know because you didn't have all the facts!

Edited July 21, 2009 by looking_up

[HAL 9000 96]

I think it's safer to say most cops have an authoritative ego attitude, and many will lock you up quicker than sneeze if you are deemed to be questioning their authority. Race aside completely...I do believe if the same thing happened to a white man, they would have arrested him as well....

Everyone should note, the guy didn't get arrested for B&E, he got arrested for disorderly conduct.

On a side note, I think it's such a disservice for people to always cry racism when there appears to be none. The facts are, he doesn't own the house, it was dark, obviously his neighbors didn't recognize him..and he and the driver were trying to open a stuck door. I don't know anyone under those circs who wouldn't call the cops...whether they looked white/black/mexican/etc...whether they were women or men....and the cops, coming to ask for id, did not have to be met with the righteous indignation of 'why is it cos I'm black?'

Its because racism STILL exists in this country.

so does every other heinous thing but I dont go crying about it everytime a cop knocks on my door.

You can bump that post a million times and one thing will never change you assumed the officer overstepped his authority when in fact you dont know because you dont have all the facts!

Let us know what history of prejudice you've suffered. I am sure Professor Gates has a story or two.

I don't need to assume the obvious. That's why its obvious.

Time to go home now.

[Fandango 1,440]

Let us know what history of prejudice you've suffered. I am sure Professor Gates has a story or two.

I don't need to assume the obvious. That's why its obvious.

Time to go home now.

His previous experiences in racism do not make this racism. Don't be ridiculous.

[_Simpson_ 250]

I think it's safer to say most cops have an authoritative ego attitude, and many will lock you up quicker than sneeze if you are deemed to be questioning their authority. Race aside completely...I do believe if the same thing happened to a white man, they would have arrested him as well....

Everyone should note, the guy didn't get arrested for B&E, he got arrested for disorderly conduct.

On a side note, I think it's such a disservice for people to always cry racism when there appears to be none. The facts are, he doesn't own the house, it was dark, obviously his neighbors didn't recognize him..and he and the driver were trying to open a stuck door. I don't know anyone under those circs who wouldn't call the cops...whether they looked white/black/mexican/etc...whether they were women or men....and the cops, coming to ask for id, did not have to be met with the righteous indignation of 'why is it cos I'm black?'

Its because racism STILL exists in this country.

so does every other heinous thing but I dont go crying about it everytime a cop knocks on my door.

You can bump that post a million times and one thing will never change you assumed the officer overstepped his authority when in fact you dont know because you dont have all the facts!

Let us know what history of prejudice you've suffered. I am sure Professor Gates has a story or two.

I don't need to assume the obvious. That's why its obvious.

Time to go home now.

Is he not a professer at a elite college, puleeze! This corrupted evil racist society gave him a chance, imagine that.

Sorry but its not obvious

Edited July 21, 2009 by looking_up

[Kathryn41 3,207]

Newest article on story from NPR: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=106860000 apparently Gates says he did show ID. The charges have been dropped and there is apparently an investigation underway.

[The_Dude 1,142]