Why are I-129F petitions denied for the petitioner?

[DGAB2008 3]

You are completely fine. You will not be denied because of that and they will clearly understand that in fact, you did not use an "international marriage broker," as defined. No problem with that whatsoever.

They will now only make sure you met within the 2 year period before filing your petition, check your criminal histories, etc.

No worries. Praying for you both.

Dionne

International Marriage Broker Defined

"The definition of International Marriage Brokers in IMBRA covers virtually all for-profit matchmaking entities, whether U.S. based on not, whose main business is the facilitation of dating or like services between U.S. citizens and foreigners. The definition excludes matchmaking sites whose principal business in not providing dating services between U.S. residents and foreign clients and which charges like fees for its services regardless of the gender or national origin of the client."

In other words, dating websites like Yahoo Personals, E-harmony, etc. that don't set out to exclusively make love connections between U.S. citizens and foreigners, but that charge a set fee to everyone using the site, regardless of where they live, are not considered international marriage brokers.

Second, even though you answered that question incorrectly based on the advice of your attorney, shouldn't make or break your case and probably will have no impact whatsoever, especially if you explained in either question #18 or in your personal statements, how your relationship came to be. The examiner will see from your statements that you met through an online dating site, and they, knowing the definition of an international marriage broker, will understand that you clearly didn't understand the definition.

If you did not explain that you met on an internet dating site in either question #18 or in your personal statements, then perhaps it might be worth notarizing an amended statement to add to you file, or submitting a notarized amendment to the IMBRA question only.

I'm not one to leave things to chance so if you have an opportunity to provide clarity and it won't hurt you by doing so, but could hurt you without doing so, I say do it. Though again, I strongly believe, the examiner will understand on their own that you just didn't understand the definition.

Fire that attorney!!!

Dionne

IMBRA had an implicit intent that the cases would be handled differently as to any disclosure issues, based on IMB or not IMB. However, in practice, I've seen no evidence in the last three years that there is even the slightest difference in how disclosure is handled. Really, the only significance between yes or no was to impose a requirement on the IMB to take part in the disclosure of any criminal record to beneficiary. There just simply has been no difference. IMBRA was never about an impact on whether a petition would be approved except in the multiple filing scenario.

Dionne and pushbrk,

Thank you very much for your input!

The Affidavit of Sincere Relationship / Personal Statement my fiancé wrote starts like this: "Luciana and I were both members of a website, www.XXX.com. I had been a member for a few days when I came across her profile....".

We didn't omit that, and on question #19 we provided the physical address of the website as well.

Do you think we are fine with that or you still recommend us to submit a notarized amendment?

I thought to myself that they also might access the website to check and see it's not a marriage broker... Is that possible?

And yes, thinking seriously about firing the attorney...

Again, thank you very much everyone, for your opinion! They are really important to me!

Lu

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Also, how's VT I just moved from Burlington less than a year ago. I miss VT!!!

OK, since others are answering. I have used travel agencies and the take care of the visa and invitation. They have all the forms and just follow their directions. Just as described above. I think the main reason for the visas is to drum up business for Russian travel agents.

I booked round trip tickets, Moscow to JFK and return to Moscow for our son $519 round trip. This if for arrival in July and return in early Sept. Aerosvit airlines, with a connection in Kiev. Vermont is great, but still waiting for summer. We had two days in the low 90's in APRIL and cool ever since, As you know, we only GET two days of summer...maybe that was IT. Alla tells me to warm up the lake for when she gets back to go swimming. Uh huh. Will do, sweetheart.

The best way I found to get a Russian visa is to ONLY buy the invitation. Then, after they send you an electronic copy of the invitation, you can send all the documentation directly to the consulate using FedEx or UPS and wait until they process everything. Doing it like this will cost you around $200, including delivery charges. I personally prefer it this way because I do not like to send my passport to a travel agency. This way I only send it to the consulate.

Be prepared to remember every country you have visited during the last seven years.

If you travel to Russia often (more than two entrres a year), it is better to get a Business visa that allows you multiple entries a year. However, you will first need to get and use a tourist visa before you are qualified to getting a business visa. It will cost you around $300 and two months (the cheapest), but it sure beats $200 every time you decide to go there.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

International Marriage Broker Defined

"The definition of International Marriage Brokers in IMBRA covers virtually all for-profit matchmaking entities, whether U.S. based on not, whose main business is the facilitation of dating or like services between U.S. citizens and foreigners. The definition excludes matchmaking sites whose principal business in not providing dating services between U.S. residents and foreign clients and which charges like fees for its services regardless of the gender or national origin of the client."

In other words, dating websites like Yahoo Personals, E-harmony, etc. that don't set out to exclusively make love connections between U.S. citizens and foreigners, but that charge a set fee to everyone using the site, regardless of where they live, are not considered international marriage brokers.

Second, even though you answered that question incorrectly based on the advice of your attorney, shouldn't make or break your case and probably will have no impact whatsoever, especially if you explained in either question #18 or in your personal statements, how your relationship came to be. The examiner will see from your statements that you met through an online dating site, and they, knowing the definition of an international marriage broker, will understand that you clearly didn't understand the definition.

If you did not explain that you met on an internet dating site in either question #18 or in your personal statements, then perhaps it might be worth notarizing an amended statement to add to you file, or submitting a notarized amendment to the IMBRA question only.

I'm not one to leave things to chance so if you have an opportunity to provide clarity and it won't hurt you by doing so, but could hurt you without doing so, I say do it. Though again, I strongly believe, the examiner will understand on their own that you just didn't understand the definition.

Fire that attorney!!!

Dionne

IMBRA had an implicit intent that the cases would be handled differently as to any disclosure issues, based on IMB or not IMB. However, in practice, I've seen no evidence in the last three years that there is even the slightest difference in how disclosure is handled. Really, the only significance between yes or no was to impose a requirement on the IMB to take part in the disclosure of any criminal record to beneficiary. There just simply has been no difference. IMBRA was never about an impact on whether a petition would be approved except in the multiple filing scenario.

Dionne and pushbrk,

Thank you very much for your input!

The Affidavit of Sincere Relationship / Personal Statement my fiancé wrote starts like this: "Luciana and I were both members of a website, www.XXX.com. I had been a member for a few days when I came across her profile....".

We didn't omit that, and on question #19 we provided the physical address of the website as well.

Do you think we are fine with that or you still recommend us to submit a notarized amendment?

I thought to myself that they also might access the website to check and see it's not a marriage broker... Is that possible?

And yes, thinking seriously about firing the attorney...

Again, thank you very much everyone, for your opinion! They are really important to me!

Lu

Whatever else you wrote in this "Affidavit of Sincere Realtionship" (there is no such thing, except in an attorneys fertile, misleading mind) I hope you mentioned you intend to get married within 90 days of her entry to the USA. Virtually anything else you would write is redundant but it MUST say that. Who comes up with this stuff? Attorneys? They need to justify their existance?

I think you are fine if the adjudicator doesn't fall asleep before you get to the part that promises to get married within 90 days or arrival.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Gary and Alla

[Bobby+Umit 161]

WHOA!

He did not say he met through a marriage broker. He said it was an internet dating website and that he paid a fee. It takes a whole lot more than that to be an International Marriage Broker.

An I-129F petition will be denied for the following reasons.

1. The petitioner is not a US Citizen

2. The couple hasn't met in person in the past two years.

3. The petitioner has been convicted of a sex crime against a child.

4. The petitioner has exceeded the number of allowed petitions filed and no waiver was requested or the requested waiver was denied.

People who meet on internet dating websites, answer "NO" when asked if they met through an international marriage broker. This is a common misconception though, as the I-129F instructions fail to mention the exceptions to the definition they show. The vast majority of internet dating sites are not IMBs. All that said, I've seen no evidence it makes a bit of difference how you answer the IMB question on the forms. Vast numbers of people have said yes when they should have said no.

I wouldn't worry about it.

Meeting in a chat room wouldn't be considered a marriage broker correct? We actually met through a chat room on skype..... I think the Marriage Broker stuff is reserved for men (Women?) that find their perspective mate through a "Mail Order" type service.

correct. it wouldn't meet the criteria of IMBR.

Read up on the IMBR - there are guidelines on what they consider to fall under - even a thread in K-1 here talks about it - I cite the actual law, and the exceptions to the rule.

But im to lazy right now to link to it - and I'm going to bed

Just do a search on "dating" in this forum = you will see it

Unfortunately, you've misinterpreted the "exceptions" by failing to read carefully and interpret literally.

Yes - I know - their lawyer told them to check the IMBR - not me

Since they did check it, and sent it in, I stated that it should not be a problem. The only thing that may occur is that she will be asked if he disclosed his "criminal history" or "martial history" or how many times he attempted to do the K-1 (something along that lines)

I also posted that meeting in a chat room would not be considered an IMBR.

I cited the IMBR as being a possible problem because if you filed k-1's before, you would need a waiver to allow the new one to go through, and that possibility of denial is there. (perhaps I should of made that more clear).

So - did you read my posts carefully?

For reference - here is the link to the other thread Other Dating site question thread

We are the same thinking track PushBrk!

Edited June 18, 2009 by Bobby_Umit

[Lu & Keith 0]

Whatever else you wrote in this "Affidavit of Sincere Realtionship" (there is no such thing, except in an attorneys fertile, misleading mind) I hope you mentioned you intend to get married within 90 days of her entry to the USA. Virtually anything else you would write is redundant but it MUST say that. Who comes up with this stuff? Attorneys? They need to justify their existance?

I think you are fine if the adjudicator doesn't fall asleep before you get to the part that promises to get married within 90 days or arrival.

Garry,

We didn't mention it... Damn it!

What about now?

By the way, I'm SHE...

Thanks!

[bobb 0]

I think the Marriage Broker stuff is reserved for men (Women?) that find their perspective mate through a "Mail Order" type service.

Please do not reinforce out-dated concepts such as 'Mail Order'. There is no such animal!!!

[pushbrk 13,611]

Garry,

We didn't mention it... Damn it!

What about now?

By the way, I'm SHE...

Thanks!

Provide updated letters of intent for the interview.

[Lu & Keith 0]

Garry,

We didn't mention it... Damn it!

What about now?

By the way, I'm SHE...

Thanks!

Provide updated letters of intent for the interview.

We won't have problems to have our petition approved?

[pushbrk 13,611]

I think the Marriage Broker stuff is reserved for men (Women?) that find their perspective mate through a "Mail Order" type service.

Please do not reinforce out-dated concepts such as 'Mail Order'. There is no such animal!!!

It's old terminology but not that far off as a description. An IMB is a business primarily engaged in arranging "marriages" (the "M" KEYWORD in IMBRA) between people in different countries and in this context between foreigners and US Citizens. Dating websites that charge membership fees and even those that provide email translation and other services between people who wish to establish "relationships" that may or may not include marriage (hence the term "dating") are not "brokering marriages", so are not IMBs.

Unfortunately, people tend to key on the issue of having paid a fee without keying on the purpose of the fee. Unless they carefully study the exceptions they get it wrong every time. USCIS and the Consulates know this and understand this is a fairly useless law when it comes to enforcing the portion that is intended to regulate actual IMBs. As such, they concentrate on doing their part to limit multiple filings and facilitate collecting court records to make sure beneficiaries are informed. Essentially, all a Consular officer can do is ask if the IMB provided court records and regardless of the answer, hand over the copies. It's not like they are chasing down IMBs for not obtaining court records from potential USC petitioners and handing them over to the beneficiaries.