See if you can solve this puzzle

[Turtoise 0]

Hi to everybody. I'm new to this forum. I have asked this question to the Canada/US border patrol, to legal advice websites, and even to the US embassy in my home country, but I've received different answers.

My husband and I lived in the States for 15 years, but we got deported in the end, when we tried to apply for our green card. When we received the deportation notice, we had already started plans to move to Canada, not because we were expecting to be thrown out of the US, but because Canada was appealing to us. We were under the impression that our green card application was still in process, when we received the notice. It came as a shock, but anyway, long story short, we managed to get extensions of our removal procedures, until it was time to go back to our country for the interview with the Canadian Immigration. The officer in the US handling our removal procedure told us that we would probably be able to come back to the States once we would be Canadian citizens. I don't know if he was just saying that so that we wouldn't try to hide or anything (not that we were planning to, I'd never live like that, and we never hid from immigration even when we had let our work permits expire).

We could apply for a waiver, but it costs $550 for each of us, and there is a bigger chance that it will be denied rather than approved. So we decided to wait until we became Canadian citizens to try to go back to the States to get our stuff that has been sitting in the storage for 4 years now (we could have paid a shipping company with all the money that went into storage, but the shipping costs were too high and we couldn't afford it). We thought that with a Canadian passport we won't need to get a visa to enter, but the question is, will our deportation show up when we go to the border? The deportation was connected to our previous citizenship, but will it show up on the Canadian passport too? Will they let us in, since our nationality has changed? Or will they detain us for trying to enter the States after having been deported?

We didn't commit any crime, except that we were living there illegally after letting our work permits expire. And we are definitely not trying to go back to the States for the purpose of staying there; just to get our stuff and come back to Canada, maybe visit once in a while again for some shopping or tourism, but definitely not to try and stay there.

Anyone know what the answer is? Because the legal advice website said that we are still the same individuals who got deported, doesn't matter if our nationality has changed. The border patrol was not sure what the answer was. The US Embassy in our home country had told us that we could try to enter again once we would become citizens of Canada. Should I call the US Embassy here in Canada to find out? What if they want to know my name and then put me on some watch list or whatever? Would we have a better chance to get a waiver with our Canadian citizenship? Is it even worth it to spend that money on a waiver when we could use it towards our trip to get our stuff from the US?

Thanks for any replies.

[canadian_wife 1,823]

Hi to everybody. I'm new to this forum. I have asked this question to the Canada/US border patrol, to legal advice websites, and even to the US embassy in my home country, but I've received different answers.

My husband and I lived in the States for 15 years, but we got deported in the end, when we tried to apply for our green card. When we received the deportation notice, we had already started plans to move to Canada, not because we were expecting to be thrown out of the US, but because Canada was appealing to us. We were under the impression that our green card application was still in process, when we received the notice. It came as a shock, but anyway, long story short, we managed to get extensions of our removal procedures, until it was time to go back to our country for the interview with the Canadian Immigration. The officer in the US handling our removal procedure told us that we would probably be able to come back to the States once we would be Canadian citizens. I don't know if he was just saying that so that we wouldn't try to hide or anything (not that we were planning to, I'd never live like that, and we never hid from immigration even when we had let our work permits expire).

We could apply for a waiver, but it costs $550 for each of us, and there is a bigger chance that it will be denied rather than approved. So we decided to wait until we became Canadian citizens to try to go back to the States to get our stuff that has been sitting in the storage for 4 years now (we could have paid a shipping company with all the money that went into storage, but the shipping costs were too high and we couldn't afford it). We thought that with a Canadian passport we won't need to get a visa to enter, but the question is, will our deportation show up when we go to the border? The deportation was connected to our previous citizenship, but will it show up on the Canadian passport too? Will they let us in, since our nationality has changed? Or will they detain us for trying to enter the States after having been deported?

We didn't commit any crime, except that we were living there illegally after letting our work permits expire. And we are definitely not trying to go back to the States for the purpose of staying there; just to get our stuff and come back to Canada, maybe visit once in a while again for some shopping or tourism, but definitely not to try and stay there.

Anyone know what the answer is? Because the legal advice website said that we are still the same individuals who got deported, doesn't matter if our nationality has changed. The border patrol was not sure what the answer was. The US Embassy in our home country had told us that we could try to enter again once we would become citizens of Canada. Should I call the US Embassy here in Canada to find out? What if they want to know my name and then put me on some watch list or whatever? Would we have a better chance to get a waiver with our Canadian citizenship? Is it even worth it to spend that money on a waiver when we could use it towards our trip to get our stuff from the US?

Thanks for any replies.

Yes, I believe it will. There is a girl on this site who had the exact same problem. And she was caught at the border, charged with misrepresentation and banned from the United States. YOU have the deportation order - not your passport and not your nationality. It is likely that when Canada issued you a passport all your previous immigration violations were transferred with it.

A call to the US embassy should certainly be done to find out what your options are, as I could be wrong.

Good luck.

[Old Dominion 26]

What is your current standing in Canada? In any event, re-entering the US is probably impossible.

[Turtoise 0]

Thank you Canadian Wife and Old Dominion.

What you said, CW, makes sense actually. That's what the lawyer had basically said, too, on that legal advice website.

OD, we are about to become citizens.

I think I'm going to call the US Embassy. Maybe, if we still can't cross, the Canadian citizenship will at least make it easier to get the waiver... maybe. Or maybe we could ask for a special permit of about 1 to 2 weeks for this one time to go and get our stuff. Besides, it's been 4 years since we left the States... who knows, maybe we are no longer banned. I don't know for sure if we had a 3 year ban or a 10 year ban, but I think it's the latter.

I'm not brave (or stupid, however you may want to view it) enough to try to cross the border knowing that we were deported, and knowing that they have become much stricter these days. I don't want to end up in jail. We escaped being detained when we made the wise decision to show up at Immigration on the date that we were supposed to show up with luggage and all. We didn't bring luggage, but we showed up with papers proving that we were working to emigrate to Canada. That, and probably our attitude, bought the trust of the Immigration officer, and he worked with us, by giving us extensions as long as we kept reporting back with papers showing our proceedings with the Canadian Immigration.

Now I'm wondering, how will I convince a US Embassy officer to grant us a 1 -2 weeks special permit, or to get a waiver to erase that stupid deportation? I'd rather go this way than risk getting in trouble at the border.

Any suggestions how to convince an officer for granting us either a waiver or a special permit? We don't have any crime in our history, otherwise we would not have been allowed into Canada.

[canadian_wife 1,823]

You will not 'convince' them of anything. You will not get them to 'erase' anything. A deportation is serious and the US takes is seriously

You will have to fill out the I-212 for application for readmission after deportation.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-212.pdf

How long was your overstay? You say you lived in the US for 15 years, how much of that was illegal?

[JERIII 8]

We didn't commit any crime, except that we were living there illegally after letting our work permits expire. And we are definitely not trying to go back to the States for the purpose of staying there; just to get our stuff and come back to Canada, maybe visit once in a while again for some shopping or tourism, but definitely not to try and stay there.

Thanks for any replies.

Exactly how long ago were you deported, and what exactly do you mean by deported?

Edited May 8, 2009 by JERIII

[baron555 934]

You should probably contact someone here who can arrange to have your things shipped to you or sold off and you sent the money (less fees).

"We didn't commit any crime, except that we were living there illegally"

Do you understand that you committed a crime by being here illegally?

You are now in "your country" (your words) and you'll be happy staying there.

Edited May 8, 2009 by baron555

[Turtoise 0]

I think we let our work permits expire after 8 or 9 years. Up to then we were renewing our work permits yearly while waiting for our immigration interview. Then one year we forgot to renew it, and we just stopped renewing it from then. But after another 2 years or so, we went to immigration to find out about when we could get our interview. We had received our work permits on grounds of political asylum. When we left our country it was a military regime, but by the time we finally got the interview when we contacted immigration, the country was restored to a democracy, and the political asylum was not granted to us. We went to a lawyer to see if it could be appealed. She arranged a hearing for us.

At the hearing it was denied yet again. We had the choice to leave voluntarily, or go to higher appeal. We chose for voluntary departure, because the way the higher appeal was presented to us, we pictured a scene that if it would be denied we would be thrown in jail and then put in a plane in handcuffs, and that was scary. So we chose for voluntary departure. The lawyer who had hardly done anything to represent us during that hearing, told us after the hearing that if we had been in the States for 10 years, we would have probably been eligible for a Stay of Removal. When we got home that day, we thought about that, and since we had been in the states for a little over 9 years at that time, we thought we could just stay and then appeal again after we had completed 10 years. We had misunderstood the lawyer. It didn't work that way.

We also didn't try to appeal immediately after we had completed 10 years in the States. We got caught up in life, and financially we didn't have the money yet to appeal. We went to a deportation lawyer after we had been there for 13 years. That lawyer knowingly misled us. He should have known that it was already too late for us to appeal, but he took our money and pretended that it was going to be alright. That is why we thought that our case was still pending when we received the notice of removal procedures. We explained this to that immigration officer too, and he understood that we had been tricked by the lawyer. Since we felt deceived by all three lawyers (first one that advised us to apply for asylum instead of informing us of better ways to become permanent residents; second one that could have advised us not to ask for a hearing yet, but wait another year until we would be eligible for the stay of removal; third one, the biggest fraud, who knowingly misled us), we took care of our Canadian papers without any help from any lawyers. Thank god for the Internet and for the Canadian Immigration website that guides you through all the steps. We should have become informed about how to get out of the mess we had landed in in the US without counting too much on lawyers.

Anyway, so that's the story. We were not deported in handcuffs. Once we knew our chances to stay in the US were blown, we cooperated with the Immigration and their removal procedures. And we never purposely hid from Immigration. They could come and get us anytime they wanted. We paid our taxes on time (we had a social security number, which we received with the work permits), we were good residents, etc., and we gave birth to two American citizens, but since they are still minors, they don't count for anything. My older child will be 18 soon (in 2 years).

What are the chances for us to get a waiver? I heard that a waiver is only granted in extreme situations. Once our child turns 18, can she appeal for us? Should we just wait it out for the remaining 6 years (if it was a 10 year ban), and in the meantime figure out other ways to get our stuff here? It costs about $17,000 for a shipping company to get it to us. We can't afford that. It would cost us about half or less than half of that amount to go and get it ourselves. What to do?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

You were deported. The how does not really matter. At all.

You were in this country illegally after overstaying your work visa, well aware that it was YOUR responsibility to renew it to remain in good status and you did not.

You chose voluntary departure and then thought it was within your purview to ignore said opportunity and stay. WTH, really.

I just cannot see a waiver granted for you; since you admittedly broke immigration law at least twice. Not cool.

[Turtoise 0]

You should probably contact someone here who can arrange to have your things shipped to you or sold off and you sent the money (less fees).

"We didn't commit any crime, except that we were living there illegally"

Do you understand that you committed a crime by being here illegally?

You are now in "your country" (your words) and you'll be happy staying there.

Actually, it seems odd to me that it's seen as a crime, but I guess it is considered a crime. Reason why I don't see it as a crime, is because we tried to become legal residents. When it didn't happen after trying 3 times, we left. Yes, we were forced to leave, but we cooperated.

What did you mean by the last sentence? If you mean that I'll be happy staying in Canada, then yes, I am happy here in Canada, and like I said in my earlier post, I am definitely not trying to come back to the US to stay there. I keep thanking my lucky stars that things turned out well for us.

[Turtoise 0]

You were deported. The how does not really matter. At all.

You were in this country illegally after overstaying your work visa, well aware that it was YOUR responsibility to renew it to remain in good status and you did not.

You chose voluntary departure and then thought it was within your purview to ignore said opportunity and stay. WTH, really.

I just cannot see a waiver granted for you; since you admittedly broke immigration law at least twice. Not cool.

Oh, fine! Forget it then, we'll save for a shipping company and eventually manage to get our stuff here. We waited for 4 years, we can wait some more. Wow, it's not like we didn't try to become legal citizens, but whatever. I'm so glad it led to us becoming permanent residents of Canada and soon to be citizens of Canada!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

You are surreal....

[jundp 191]

Actually, it seems odd to me that it's seen as a crime, but I guess it is considered a crime. Reason why I don't see it as a crime, is because we tried to become legal residents. When it didn't happen after trying 3 times, we left. Yes, we were forced to leave, but we cooperated.

Yes, but you did say you let your work visas lapse and chose not to renew them after getting caught up in life.

The point is, what you did still was illegal.

Your best bet is to get someone else to sell your stuff or ship it to you.

[Turtoise 0]

Len, glad you had a good laugh. And for sure I know that people like you don't care. It doesn't bother me. I just posted here to see if there was a solution other than having to pay the huge amount of money for having our stuff shipped here. Why you had to become so hostile is beyond me.

For all others, thanks for your responses. Sorry, I didn't really realize that I was a criminal. Nice story to tell to my grand kids one day...

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Len, glad you had a good laugh. And for sure I know that people like you don't care. It doesn't bother me. I just posted here to see if there was a solution other than having to pay the huge amount of money for having our stuff shipped here. Why you had to become so hostile is beyond me.

For all others, thanks for your responses. Sorry, I didn't really realize that I was a criminal. Nice story to tell to my grand kids one day...

Oh, I care more than you will ever know. However, it irates me that people have the b@lls to break the law, knowingly as you did, and then expect lovey dovey advise.

Now carry on.