What Stimulated the Gun and Ammo Market?

[SuperDuper! 230]

Look at the Gun Mahal gave me for a present: I think they are B-cups. Do I have to load them with milk?

[Ban Hammer 14,297]

Look at the Gun Mahal gave me for a present: I think they are B-cups. Do I have to load them with milk?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Stop it for the civilian market as it stands.

hate to burst your bubble, but i have orders for about 9 in my network, and they will be assembled in a few weeks. the current bubble in the "assault rifle market that holder and osama have created will increase the number of AR in the states by about 8%, according to industry estimates. we are already looking at 20-25 million AR and AK in america.

So why do we have so much gun violence in this country?

in pennsylvania, it's about 92% attributable to hispanic drug trafficking.

Speaking of fail. Slanted with the obvious racist undertones as usual.

I asked WHY, not the WHAT. Any reasonable mind, even wiki thieves, should be able to tell the difference.

Oh, hello Hal. I missed you at the other thread.

So now about this assault wepan ban you want, I am glad to see you rclearly state your position, or well, sort of. So hal, what exactly is an assualt weapon? How would you define the species, or wish for congress to define it?

For me, I say leave them alone and address the causes of crime you pointe out in the other thread today. You know, poor education, market for ciminal activity.

Now as to the why. We really do not have so much gun violence and it has been decreasing some 40% since the early 1990s. About the time we went from 3 states allowing concealed carry to 42 states. Funny thing about that. Gun violence goes down as gun ownership and carrying in public goes up. Intersting, and in the other thread you were going to tell me how reality works regarding that, can you do it here instead?

I really would like to hear and now that IK have answered your question, maybe you would consider answering mine. I wait patiently.

1. Define (your definition) an assault weapon

2. Please tell us why the people of IL cannot handle the responsibility of concealed carry like the people of neighboring Kentucky. And Indiana. Maybe a lack of education as you pointed out ion the other thread? I don't know.

I look forward to an interesting exchange of information and ideas.

I am curious... if you don't have significant gun violence what then is a 40% drop in its occurrence? Statisticians the world-over usually stick to making claims that are meaningful. Like I may have told you- there are differences in population density that are at work in your beautiful home state as opposed to elsewhere.

Neither was I telling you how reality works regarding concealed weapons.

I will only answer this once- in my terms, and leave it at that:

1. Assault weapon: Repetitive-firing weapon whose initial production design is intended to be used in military and para-military (law enforcement) for tactical frequency advantages over the intended 'enemy.' Rifles capable of repetitive action whose repetitive firing design in my opinion should not be included in this definition as long as their function is designed for practical applications, i.e., hunting.

2. I never said the people of IL are not capable of handling any weapon. And I did not mention a lack of education either.

1. If there are 11 robberies in Vermont in one year, and 7 the next, it is a 40% drop. Thats just the math. Did I say Vermont had a 40% drop? No. See Vermont has always allowed the concealed carry of firearms so there was no point where we experienced the 40% decrease of some other states as it was always low. Now, for instance, in 2008 Vermont had a huge drop in Robberies, but it was statisically insignifcant since in 2007 we had one bad dude that robbed 11 convenience stores stores with a BB gun in one month! Holy sh@t!!!!!!! He alone doubled the robbery rate. When they caught him it cut the rate in half. He was known as the "backwards bandit" because he wore a hooded sweatshirt backwards with holes cut for the eyes. LOL He got caught when he and his girlfriend got caught shoplifting and his girly girl snitched on him to get off lifting some clothes at WalMart. He actually made 16 robbery attempts but five of them were gun savvy enough to say "Hey, that's a BB gun, now get out of here before I shoot you with a REAL gun" So it is really hard to draw statistical conclusions with such a small sample. And I don't want to give the impression that there is "no crime" in Vermont. Hey, we have that. We have telephones and even cable TV now, in most places, not where I live but I hear tell we will in the next few years. It is just so remarkably low that it really isn't a concern. I mean if someone wants to take things from my house I really don't want to pay to replace a broken window to boot.

2. As I acknowledge and agree, crime has as its root causes many factors not realted to firearms. Firearms laws do not address them.

3. OK, so that would leave out our "assault weapons". Assault weapons as designed for intial military use are selective fire, semi or full automatic. Selective fire weapons are banned from current manufacture for general sale to the public (since 1986) but pre-existing selective fire weapons are allowed to be owned and transferred under the NFA of 1934 with proper registration. So we are in agreement. Unless, of course, "your opinon" would also include rifles which "resemble" assault rifles. But I assume not since you said you would only say it once, I presume you gave a well thought out definition. OR...would your definition include...

ALL "repetitive fire" rifles originally designed for the military to give a tactical advantage" So would that include the 1892 Krag Bolt action repeating rifle? What about the Model 1895 Winchester lever action? Just curious, both were designed to give the military a tactical advantage, both are repetitive firing rifles. How about the US M1903 Springfield or Mauser M1898, both bolt action repetitive firing rifles designed to give the military tactical advantage? Both the basis of nearly all modern bolt action "hunting rifles". Are you sure you have defined the properly? Imean hey, if someone is shooting at ME with an M98 I will prpoerly consider myself "assaulted" but is it an "assault rifle" I mean I know you said you would only demonstrate your basic knowledge of weapons one time, but hey, I'll give you another shot if you want.

Now I'm not saying that these laws are purposely written to ban as many firearms as possible but it looks like it could happen, even if only by "accident"

Very few rifles are "designed for" hunting. Nearly all our hunting rifles were originally designed for ilitary purposes, whether or not they ahd any success. Winchester had only limited success in military sales of its lever action rifles but they just never gave up submitting their designs to the military. They had great success as hunting rifles. The military is a huge market for rifle manufacturers, of course they seek contracts with them. Hunters tend to get modified, fancied up versions of military rifles for use. Perfectly natural in a capitalist society and not unlike tons of other innovations we enjoy in all walks of life from microwave ovesn to pennicillin. Now I say this to enlighten you on some mechanics and history, but you digress again into hunting and we have no right to hunt. We have a right to bear arms and there is certainly nothing UNacceptbale about an "assault rifle" for hunting. It will certainly serve the purpose. Your proposed law, basically comes down, again, to cosmetics. The AR15 is banned, the Remington Model 740 is OK? Both semi-autos, both with detachable magazines both firing powerful cartridges (the Model 740 being the much more powerful of the two) one has a wood stock (but some now have a balck fiberglass stock just like the AR15). I mean what is the difference?

4. OK, sorry, I really believed in another post you included the level of education in an area as a cause of crime. You mean education levels have no relationship to crime? Just wondering. And I am glad to hear you believe the people of IL could benefit from concealed carry like all the other states. I agree. You had me worried. Thanks

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Look at the Gun Mahal gave me for a present: I think they are B-cups. Do I have to load them with milk?

definitely an assault weapon Charles. You are tooooo much. And after all that, all we had to see was a photo.

Look at the Gun Mahal gave me for a present: I think they are B-cups. Do I have to load them with milk?

Sorry, it was itzallgood in possession of those deadly weapons! Be careful where you point that thing!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Look at the Gun Mahal gave me for a present: I think they are B-cups. Do I have to load them with milk?

A true double barrel.

[Ban Hammer 14,297]

Look at the Gun Mahal gave me for a present: I think they are B-cups. Do I have to load them with milk?

A true double barrel.

put a laser sight on that thing

[baron555 934]

Assault weapons as designed for intial military use are selective fire, semi or full automatic.

There is more to the definition than one sentence:

Definition

The term assault rifle is a translation of the German word Sturmgewehr (literally meaning "storm rifle"), "storm" used as a verb being synonymous with assault, as in "to storm the compound". The name was coined by Adolf Hitler[1] to describe the Maschinenpistole 44, subsequently re-christened Sturmgewehr 44, the firearm generally considered the first true assault rifle that served to popularize the concept.

The translation assault rifle gradually became the common term for similar firearms sharing the same technical definition as the StG 44. In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]

It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock);

It must be capable of selective fire;

It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle;

Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.

Semi-automatic rifles that share designs with assault rifles such as the AR-15 (which the M-16 rifle is based on) and semi-automatic-only versions of the AK-47 are not assault rifles, as they are not capable of switching to automatic fire and thus not selective fire. Belt-fed weapons (such as the M249 SAW) or rifles with fixed magazines are likewise not assault rifles.

The term "assault rifle" is often more loosely used for commercial or political reasons to include other types of arms, particularly arms that fall under a strict definition of the battle rifle, or semi-automatic variant of military rifles such as AR-15s

The US Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges".[5]

The section that I bolded is the typical current day media spin. The public hears the word Assault from the media and quite subconsciously associates all weapons; which is what the controllers want them to fear.

Gun Control has nothing to do with guns, it's all about Control.

[justashooter 430]

ALL "repetitive fire" rifles originally designed for the military to give a tactical advantage" So would that include the 1892 Krag Bolt action repeating rifle? What about the Model 1895 Winchester lever action? Just curious, both were designed to give the military a tactical advantage, both are repetitive firing rifles. How about the US M1903 Springfield or Mauser M1898, both bolt action repetitive firing rifles designed to give the military tactical advantage?

you forgot to mention all guns based on the Henry (lever action) design. you can load them on sunday and shoot them all week, ya know.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

ALL "repetitive fire" rifles originally designed for the military to give a tactical advantage" So would that include the 1892 Krag Bolt action repeating rifle? What about the Model 1895 Winchester lever action? Just curious, both were designed to give the military a tactical advantage, both are repetitive firing rifles. How about the US M1903 Springfield or Mauser M1898, both bolt action repetitive firing rifles designed to give the military tactical advantage?

you forgot to mention all guns based on the Henry (lever action) design. you can load them on sunday and shoot them all week, ya know.

I am glad Hal presented us with his lack of firearms knowledge. As you know, justashooter, nearly every repetitive fire rifle ever invented was designed to give soildiers a tactical advantage over the "enemy", be it Native Americans, The British, Us (USA). Nearly every repetitive fire rifle using cartridges was designed for this purpose. The military demand for various types of firearms have spurred all sorts of innovations in firearms, nearly all of them. Smokeless powder...military demand. Revolvers...military demand. Lever actions...military demand (though the demand turned out to be less than hoped, the FIRST lever actions and some of the last designs were used by the military) Bolt actions certainly. And if there is a more classic "hunting" rifle than the M98 mauser I have yet to see it. In fact it was the last rifle design before the AR15 to spur multiple manufacturers versions, wide ranges of after market accesories. Even our OWN M1903 Springfield so closely copied the M98 we had to PAY Royalties to Mauser for copying the design and oddly enough the two designs ended up shooting at each other on the battlefield...twice. We won both times. LOL So much for tactical advantage over the enemy.

Hal demostrates exactly the problem of accepting "reasonable restrictions", they will always be expanded to "cast a big net" and ban as many firearms as possible. It is not paranoia when we are presented with such stated desires as Hal's. AND the history of recent legislation and attempted legislation. And unfortunately an anti-civil rights person like Hal, with a little knowledge of firearms (and a dictionary to tell him what "repetitive" means) could write an even more despotic definition. Hal is a lightweight. I also admire his "in my opinion" clause. I know sounds silly, would never be in a law really. Wrong. The assault wepaons moratorium allowed the Attorney General to determine any other firearms to be included. I reckon by his/her opinion.

The idea that an America would consider such restriction of their civil rights is chilling really.

[SuperDuper! 230]

ALL "repetitive fire" rifles originally designed for the military to give a tactical advantage" So would that include the 1892 Krag Bolt action repeating rifle? What about the Model 1895 Winchester lever action? Just curious, both were designed to give the military a tactical advantage, both are repetitive firing rifles. How about the US M1903 Springfield or Mauser M1898, both bolt action repetitive firing rifles designed to give the military tactical advantage?

you forgot to mention all guns based on the Henry (lever action) design. you can load them on sunday and shoot them all week, ya know.

You mean like this ONE

[justashooter 430]

You mean like this ONE

Personally, I prefer the Ferguson, an example of which can be seen in the American History Museum of the Smithsonian complex on The Mall. I was there last Sunday trying to explain to an Indian fellow how a Scotsman invented a rifle that the British used against the colonies, and it ended up in an American museum. Regardless, it was a force multiplier times 4-6, depending on the skill of the user and the condition of use. Patrick Ferguson succesfully discharged his design 14 times in 1 minute during a trials in front of ordnance officers during his attempts to have it placed in production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_rifle

[Danno 1,228]

I don't think it is any stretch to say; If Obama was a king instead of a president, this is the scene you'd see all across America.

http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=10728

Edited March 31, 2009 by Danno

[SuperDuper! 230]

I don't think it is any stretch to say; If Obama was a king instead of a president, this is the scene you'd see all across America.

http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=10728

Who told you that Obama is not the king?

[Danno 1,228]

I don't think it is any stretch to say; If Obama was a king instead of a president, this is the scene you'd see all across America.

http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=10728

Who told you that Obama is not the king?

If he is a King, who do you suppose is part of his king-dumb?

[Ban Hammer 14,297]

I don't think it is any stretch to say; If Obama was a king instead of a president, this is the scene you'd see all across America.

http://fishki.net/comment.php?id=10728

Who told you that Obama is not the king?

If he is a King, who do you suppose is part of his king-dumb?