Bad news for the AWB supporters

[justashooter 430]

Boyd joins Dems opposing assault weapons ban

March 19, 2009 10:37:00 AM

By JONAS HOGG / News Herald Writer

WASHINGTON, D.C. - Monticello Democrat Allen Boyd lent his voice to a chorus of Democratic lawmakers denouncing proposals for a new assault weapons ban.

Boyd is one of 65 signatories, all Democrat members of the house, to a letter sent to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder regarding his comments, made Feb. 26, that President Barack Obama's administration is angling to reauthorize the Federal Assault Weapon ban that expired in 2004.

"As strong supporters of the Second Amendment, we were very concerned to see your recent remarks suggesting that the administration will push for the reinstatement of the 1994 ban on ‘assault weapons' and ammunition magazines," they wrote.

"We believe that this ban was ineffective during the 10 years it was law, and would oppose its reenactment. Crime began falling before the ban was passed in 1994, and continued falling during and after the ban. The last time the murder rate was at its current level was more than 40 years ago."

In the letter, the signatories argue Congress should focus on health care, education and retirement, and state they will "actively oppose any effort to reinstate the 1994 ban, or to pass any similar law."

As of Feb. 24, the Democrats held 254 seats in the House to the Republican's 178. With the 65 Democratic signatories, any legislation could be defeated with 70 percent Republican support.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

wrong forum Me Thinks

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

moved to ot

[one...two...tree 2,762]

(from September 2004) PBS - Online News Hour

Ten years ago, President Clinton signed an assault weapons ban into law. It outlawed 19 types of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, as well as ammunition clips holding more than ten rounds.

But the law had a built-in sunset clause, and it expires next Monday. Yesterday, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said the president (that would be Bush) "supports the reauthorization of current law," and would sign a bill if it came to him.

....

Sen. Craig, the polls show widespread public support for extending this ban; two-thirds of Americans, even some 60 percent of Republicans. Why won't the Republican leadership let this come for a vote?

SEN. LARRY CRAIG: Well, you only pass laws or bring existing laws and extend their effectiveness or their legality if they work. Less than 3 percent of crimes in this country where firearms were used involved a semi-auto before the ban went in, in '94; less than 3 percent today. It was a political placebo at the time. It has shown its ineffectiveness. It has a sunset clause. And we're going to allow it to pass away. MARGARET WARNER: Sen. Feinstein, a political placebo?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Well, Sen. Craig can get me very upset sometimes, and I think his view on this is diametrically opposed to mine. There is no question that the people want this bill extended.

There is no question that gun traces to crimes committed with assault weapons have declined, and there is no question that the number of assault weapons available in gun stores, in gun shows, on street corners, have also declined. Coincidentally, but I'm not saying it's attributable to this, crime has also declined.

Now, I just appeal to the common sense of Americans all across this great country. Do military-style assault weapons belong on the streets of our cities? Do they belong in a place where they can be bought by terrorists, by gang-bangers, by grievance killers and by criminals?

I think they don't, and I think the people of this country in poll after poll, from anywhere from two-thirds to three-fourths, have said, we agree with you. We want this extended across every demographic group, --

MARGARET WARNER: Okay. So Senator -

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN: -- including gun owners, incidentally.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/ju.../ban_09-09.html

[natty bumppo 297]

(from September 2004) PBS - Online News Hour

Ten years ago, President Clinton signed an assault weapons ban into law. It outlawed 19 types of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons, as well as ammunition clips holding more than ten rounds.

But the law had a built-in sunset clause, and it expires next Monday. Yesterday, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said the president (that would be Bush) "supports the reauthorization of current law," and would sign a bill if it came to him.

....

Sen. Craig, the polls show widespread public support for extending this ban; two-thirds of Americans, even some 60 percent of Republicans. Why won't the Republican leadership let this come for a vote?

SEN. LARRY CRAIG: Well, you only pass laws or bring existing laws and extend their effectiveness or their legality if they work. Less than 3 percent of crimes in this country where firearms were used involved a semi-auto before the ban went in, in '94; less than 3 percent today. It was a political placebo at the time. It has shown its ineffectiveness. It has a sunset clause. And we're going to allow it to pass away. MARGARET WARNER: Sen. Feinstein, a political placebo?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Well, Sen. Craig can get me very upset sometimes, and I think his view on this is diametrically opposed to mine. There is no question that the people want this bill extended.

There is no question that gun traces to crimes committed with assault weapons have declined, and there is no question that the number of assault weapons available in gun stores, in gun shows, on street corners, have also declined. Coincidentally, but I'm not saying it's attributable to this, crime has also declined.

Now, I just appeal to the common sense of Americans all across this great country. Do military-style assault weapons belong on the streets of our cities? Do they belong in a place where they can be bought by terrorists, by gang-bangers, by grievance killers and by criminals?

I think they don't, and I think the people of this country in poll after poll, from anywhere from two-thirds to three-fourths, have said, we agree with you. We want this extended across every demographic group, --

MARGARET WARNER: Okay. So Senator -

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN: -- including gun owners, incidentally.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/congress/ju.../ban_09-09.html

Wonder what demographic Sen Feinstein was using for the polling purpose? Where are some hard numbers to support these firearms are used (or not used) in a crime? Guess Sen Craig was able to find the number? Wonder why DF didn't?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Wonder what demographic Sen Feinstein was using for the polling purpose? Where are some hard numbers to support these firearms are used (or not used) in a crime? Guess Sen Craig was able to find the number? Wonder why DF didn't?

That 60 percent support from Republicans came from the interviewer, not Feinstein. In addition, the WH at the time said it would sign the bill. It was the Republicans in Congress who let the ban expire without a vote... ignoring wide support among Americans to continue the ban.

[justashooter 430]

In addition, the WH at the time said it would sign the bill. It was the Republicans in Congress who let the ban expire without a vote... ignoring wide support among Americans to continue the ban.

GWB said that because he knew it would never come to his desk. congress, you know.

widespread support? if i poll a bunch of little old ladies i might get numbers like that. if i poll a bunch of PBS listeners i might get numbers like that.

a 2004 article from PBS quoting fineswine? what did you think it would say?

[natty bumppo 297]

Wonder what demographic Sen Feinstein was using for the polling purpose? Where are some hard numbers to support these firearms are used (or not used) in a crime? Guess Sen Craig was able to find the number? Wonder why DF didn't?

That 60 percent support from Republicans came from the interviewer, not Feinstein. In addition, the WH at the time said it would sign the bill. It was the Republicans in Congress who let the ban expire without a vote... ignoring wide support among Americans to continue the ban.

again .... demographic.

also what defined the "republican" title? a "cause I said so? or solid proof?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Mitt Romney on Gun Control

Support the 2nd Amendment AND the assault weapon ban

I do support the Second Amendment. I would have signed the assault weapon ban that came to his desk. I said I would have supported that and signed a similar bill in our state. It was a bill worked out, by the way, between pro-gun lobby and anti-gun lobby individuals. Both sides of the issue came together and found a way to provide relaxation in licensing requirements and allow more people to--to have guns for their own legal purposes. So we signed that in Massachusetts, and I’d support that at the federal level. It did not pass at the federal level. I do not believe we need new legislation. I do not support any new legislation of an assault weapon ban nature, including that against semiautomatic weapons. We have laws in place that, if they’re implemented & enforced, will provide the protection and the safety of the American people. I do support the right of individuals to bear arms, whether for hunting purposes or for protection purposes or any other reasons. That’s the right that people have Source: 2008 GOP debate in Boca Raton Florida Jan 24, 2008

[mRx 16]

How does one determine what constitutes a weapon as an assault weapon? It seems somewhat paradoxical to suggest some weapons are assault weapons and some aren't. What is the criteria that determines whether a semi-automatic rifle is an AW? Pistol grip, flash suppressor, detachable magazine? These don't really make a weapon more dangerous or assaultive, do they?

Saying that "we ought to keep assault rifles off the streets of America" is very strawman.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Vast Majority of Americans Want the Assault Weapons Ban Renewed

Asked if they favored or opposed renewing the assault weapons ban, most Americans said they “strongly favored” or “somewhat favored” renewing the ban, as shown in the attached Figure. Sixty-seven percent said they favored renewing the ban, including 57 percent who strongly favor its renewal. A solid majority of gun owners, 56 percent, support renewing the ban, with 45 percent strongly supporting renewal.

http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/ASSAULTWEAPONSURVEY2004.pdf

[natty bumppo 297]

Mitt Romney on Gun Control

Support the 2nd Amendment AND the assault weapon ban

I do support the Second Amendment. I would have signed the assault weapon ban that came to his desk. I said I would have supported that and signed a similar bill in our state. It was a bill worked out, by the way, between pro-gun lobby and anti-gun lobby individuals. Both sides of the issue came together and found a way to provide relaxation in licensing requirements and allow more people to--to have guns for their own legal purposes. So we signed that in Massachusetts, and I’d support that at the federal level. It did not pass at the federal level. I do not believe we need new legislation. I do not support any new legislation of an assault weapon ban nature, including that against semiautomatic weapons. We have laws in place that, if they’re implemented & enforced, will provide the protection and the safety of the American people. I do support the right of individuals to bear arms, whether for hunting purposes or for protection purposes or any other reasons. That’s the right that people have Source: 2008 GOP debate in Boca Raton Florida Jan 24, 2008

this is one person. talks out of both mouths.

still haven't answered the earlier question.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How does one determine what constitutes a weapon as an assault weapon? It seems somewhat paradoxical to suggest some weapons are assault weapons and some aren't. What is the criteria that determines whether a semi-automatic rifle is an AW? Pistol grip, flash suppressor, detachable magazine? These don't really make a weapon more dangerous or assaultive, do they?

Saying that "we ought to keep assault rifles off the streets of America" is very strawman.

I don't think its difficult to come up with a set of criteria to define clearly what sort of firearms should be made available to the public at retail. Whether that's constitutional is another matter of course.

[justashooter 430]

How does one determine what constitutes a weapon as an assault weapon? It seems somewhat paradoxical to suggest some weapons are assault weapons and some aren't. What is the criteria that determines whether a semi-automatic rifle is an AW? Pistol grip, flash suppressor, detachable magazine? These don't really make a weapon more dangerous or assaultive, do they?

Saying that "we ought to keep assault rifles off the streets of America" is very strawman.

lots of drive by pistol grippings and flash hidings lately, you know.

[justashooter 430]

How does one determine what constitutes a weapon as an assault weapon? It seems somewhat paradoxical to suggest some weapons are assault weapons and some aren't. What is the criteria that determines whether a semi-automatic rifle is an AW? Pistol grip, flash suppressor, detachable magazine? These don't really make a weapon more dangerous or assaultive, do they?

Saying that "we ought to keep assault rifles off the streets of America" is very strawman.

I don't think its difficult to come up with a set of criteria to define clearly what sort of firearms should be made available to the public at retail. Whether that's constitutional is another matter of course.

bingo. with the Heller decision firmly in place and weapons of "types in common use" specifically protected, an AWB would be clearly unconstitutional at this point, as it was in 1994.

Edited March 26, 2009 by justashooter