Question about length of courtship affecting CO decision

[Anh map 2,098]

HCMC won't let you be there with her for the interview. It's a tough consulate so be prepared to be thorough and complete with your info. Length of courtship can be an issue at HCMC. Multiple visits make the case stronger. Family intro is an issue as HCMC is a high fraud consulate.

Spend some time in the Asia: east and Pacific regional forum. There are a lot of folks there going through different stages at HCMC. The Vietnam specific info can be very valuable along with other VJer's that have experienced just about anything that you can think of. You've heard from a few already.

Don't be frustrated by the process. Keep the big picture in mind: being together with your loved one. All the work is well worth it.

Welcome to VJ

[Jasman0717 8]

Claudeth and didn't know each other for very long and we had no problems. The most important thing is to submit evidence of an on-going, meaningful relationship.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

We met online in June, met in person in January, and filed in February. It took until August before her interview. You have plenty of time to establish bonafides. The CO will ask questions to determine how well the beneficiary knows the petitioner. That is what you need to be prepared for.

Edited March 1, 2009 by Mister_Bill

[LDora 7]

Unfortunately, I don't have much that would help you for your particular area, but I still wanted to wish you good luck! You seem like a nice person, and I hope everything works out for you. I wish I could help, but I think it would be wiser for me to keep my mouth shut and not give any potentially incorrect information. ("If you can't say anything smart, don't say anything at all", right?) Good luck!

[gensdad515 2]

My advice would be to keep proof of everything. Keep Emails, take l o t s of pictures when you get together, and any other kind of proof that the relationship is ongoing. I had mailed my fiancee various cards which were taken to the interview, In addtion the hotel receipts when I went to visit, airline ticket stubs, movie ticket stubs, etc... Keep everything take more proof than they require for the interview.

Lots of luck !!! J.

[NgocThuan 0]

Thank you everyone for your input. I plan on making another trip to Vietnam as soon as I hear word that our case has been sent to the embassy in HCMC. I wish I could make a trip before then, but I just got back from my first trip at the end of January. I don't think my employer will let me take another vacation that soon. So instead of three visits, I'll only have 2 visits and a lot of email, chat logs, pics, and phone bill (in my sister's name, so might not be good as evidence) to show for the interview. It's still early yet, so I have more time to collect proof of our relationship. I plan on sending letters and cards/gifts. I started sending her money, since she stopped working to be able to chat with me in the evenings (of course day time in Vietnam); she could show receipts of the wire transfer.

[TBoneTX 43,290]

phone bill (in my sister's name, so might not be good as evidence)

Someone with in-depth knowledge will chime in here. As an initial thought, it might help if your sister were to provide a notarized letter stating that you used her phone from (starting date) through the present to speak with your girlfriend-now-fiancee.

I plan on sending letters and cards/gifts.

Excellent idea, and have her send you some postal mail, too. Despite how slow and unreliable international postal mail can be, and the reality that technology is MUCH more efficient for us, it appears that COs still place high value on such items as secondary evidence.

I started sending her money, since she stopped working to be able to chat with me in the evenings (of course day time in Vietnam); she could show receipts of the wire transfer.

Someone will certainly comment on this. Unless there is a way to get around the possible assumption by the CO that there is a "payoff" of some sort for the introduction/marriage, sending evidence of monetary transactions would not help and could hurt.

Another idea is for you to collect one-page letters -- hard-copy and signed, ideally, but not necessary -- from your people and hers, to hand over at the interview. Your "people" would include relatives, colleagues, and friends who are aware of the relationship and who can truthfully attest to its validity. Besides telling your people (see next paragraph) the details (correct spelling of your names, the date when you began communicating with her, and the dates of your visit), let them craft their own letter. Be certain that they include their COMPLETE contact information. Such letters need not be notarized. Have several from your people, and FEW from her people (too many from hers, and it may appear that they later hope to piggyback on this favor to get to the U.S. themselves).

I had 13 letters from my people; the then-fiancee had 3 from hers. Her letters were quite formal, with no detail much beyond "I attest that I am aware of this relationship; I met ____ (U.S. half) on ____ (dates); and the relationship with (fiancee) is genuine."

I was quite angered at having been ordered to appear in Ecuador for the Stokes interrogation, so I shoved each letter in rapid order under the Plexiglass, saying "Here are 13 letters from U.S. citizens who know that this relationship is genuine. This first one is from a retired U.S. Naval Commander -- is HE lying? Here's one from a retired top executive with Shell Oil -- is HE abetting visa fraud? This one is from my MOTHER, a 75-year-old grieving widow whose goal is to die so she can be with my dad -- is SHE lying? This is from my boss, explaining clearly why my visits could last no longer than a week apiece -- want to contest THIS one?" (Note: I calmed down a little when it appeared that the FSN interviewer was sincere in collecting information, but I iced over again when he began asking illegal questions and attempted to readjudicate the USCIS-approved petition.) Although I will never know for sure, I believe that the letters played a role -- perhaps a big role -- in turning the tide in our favor.

[Sinh & Lien 0]

Having gone through this process about 2 year ago, i can certainly understand what you are going through. I do agree with the way you are thinking and how you are approaching this process. Every one here is right, that you will need to provide sufficient undisputable evidence of your relationship AND that your fiance doesn't mess up the interview by answering fasely/incorrectly to the CO during the interview. The way i look at it is this: this whole thing is a "story" and it is up to your fiance to paint it out clearly to the interviewer and leave no doubt as to the legitamacy of the story. If you are able to provide all of the requested information/evidence precisely to their requirement, you should have a clear path. BUT, remember, if you get turned away at first, DO NOT be discourage...just be patience and give them what they need and becuase your love is real, in the end it WILL work out. My experience left me feeling like the consulate was beating me around the bush, but at the end, i got really upset (and focused) that i was able to put together all of their requested information and i was able to address all of their concerns and in the end, we passed. Good luck

[Anh map 2,098]

The regular mail letters/packages are excellent as well as the chat logs, etc. Also, use Skype or Yahoo Voice to talk with each other to save money.

The sending money isn't as strong for proving a loving relationship. In a higher fraud country, like Vietnam, it could undermine the bona fides of the relationship. Better to leave that out, in my opinion.

If the house phone where you are living is in your sister's name then that should be helpful. Be sure that number is listed as your home number in your documents.

The CO is going to be looking to see that this is legit. Your fiance will need to tell the whole story to show how you 2 "clicked" right away and built a relationship. The chat logs, emails, etc. will show that. Not that they will be reading each one. But giving them all that at the interview will allow the CO, even if they are not in english, to gain an understanding of how your relationship blossomed.

This process takes a while so you will have ample time to make another trip over. Why not go sooner, if you can, so you can go back again and make the trip to the US with her after visa? That way you have more time together sooner. It's no fun being so far from our loved ones. While it's a long trip from the US, I really miss visiting with my in-laws.

How is your fiance's english? If she can speak with the CO without relying heavily on the interpreter that is a plus. The onus is really on her as they will not be talking with you unlike other countries where they require the USC to be there. Be sure that she knows all the mundane details about your life (education, work, hobbies, former spouse, kids) anything that a couple would learn about each other if they lived in the same city and were dating. The simple things are often the proof that one person truly knows another. (The toothbrush, etc. questions come up at the AOS interview)

Get ready for the long haul here. It's worth all the time and effort. Don't get discouraged. And by all means keep your fiance's spirits up!

Edited March 2, 2009 by Anh map

[NgocThuan 0]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I am currently chatting with my sweetheart and gave her the link to this website. She is happy that everyone is so helpful; she has such a cute smile. I will tell her not to include the money transfer receipts as evidence; don't want to raise any alarms with the CO. I will ask my sister to write a statement that I am on her phone plan. I could probably get my boss and other people at my work to write a letter confirming our relationship; they know all about her and are eager to meet her. They also hinted about coming to our wedding. I wish I could make another trip to Vietnam a couple of more times but human resources probably would not approve, so I have to save my vacation for the interview. We will practice the interview questions and prepare her to paint a picture of our relationship. My Fiance speaks english better than I speak vietnamese. She doesn't know the meaning of some words but is quick to ask me the meaning. She is not fluent but we communicate quite well. We sort of use a mixture of both languages. She told me that she is willing to do the interview in english if required. You are all very kind and helpful. I love this forum. Thanks again.

[Fred N Emilia 0]

My first ever post in this forum was similar to this one! I was concerned that my SO and I just recently got back together after 14 years and decided to get engaged. (SIG)

[Sinh & Lien 0]

I included my money transfer over Western Union for my fiance and it did not show up as a red flag. So i guess that does depend a lot on the interviewer....I don't think it will hurt, IMHO.

Its a case by case thing, for my case, we did not even have an engagement ceremony. Being that a K-1 is for fiancee and all....we just told them how it was going to be and they understood. We ended up doing the engagement and wedding in vietnam after she recieved her visa, but we told them how and why...and they were ok with it.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Sinh & Lien

[KimandRuss 0]

I included my money transfer over Western Union for my fiance and it did not show up as a red flag. So i guess that does depend a lot on the interviewer....I don't think it will hurt, IMHO.

It's wonderful that this didn't create a problem for you but, depending on the Country and the CO, it most certainly can and has hurt other couples.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Just so you know... it is my understanding that a US Consulate/Embassy can not turn away a USC from its doors. Now, they might only be open between 1 & 3 in the afternoon, but you should be allowed into the Consulate/Embassy when she goes for her interview.

Good luck!

This is not true. Consulates have very different regulations when it comes to who is allowed into the interview. And I believe Vietnam does not allow petitioners to come in.

[toddandhien 2]

Thank you everyone for your input. I plan on making another trip to Vietnam as soon as I hear word that our case has been sent to the embassy in HCMC. I wish I could make a trip before then, but I just got back from my first trip at the end of January. I don't think my employer will let me take another vacation that soon. So instead of three visits, I'll only have 2 visits and a lot of email, chat logs, pics, and phone bill (in my sister's name, so might not be good as evidence) to show for the interview. It's still early yet, so I have more time to collect proof of our relationship. I plan on sending letters and cards/gifts. I started sending her money, since she stopped working to be able to chat with me in the evenings (of course day time in Vietnam); she could show receipts of the wire transfer.

As many have pointed out before, think of this from the perspective of the CO. They are cynical by nature and VN is a high fraud post. You have to deal with your red flags because they are there and must be dealt with. You were introduced by a family member, went to Vietnam once and got engaged within 5 days of meeting her. So, please consider your circumstances when you determine how much evidence you will build and present. It is easy to under-do it if you are not careful.

I would recommend that you do everything possible to take at least one more trip to Vietnam. Ask your boss/HR if you can "borrow" a week from next year if it comes down to it. These meetings are so important for the HCM consulate. You will never regret going more but if you get denied, you may wish you had gone again. And as Anh Map pointed out, being there is much more fun than being away from your loved one!

Also, I would recommend that you try to get a phone line in your name somehow. So much more convincing to have a bill in your name at your home address than a letter from your sister saying that you are using her phone.