Does US Consulate in Bangkok Thailand require ancient marriage certificate?

[scandal 951]

Bangkok, Thailand has an online posting of the checklist to be followed by K-1 applicants for Packet-3: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/k_visa_packet3.pdf

One thing they list has me worried - the checklist asks for:

Marriage Certificates: Both Petitioner and Beneficiary should submit a certified copy of all marriage certificates. If either Petitioner or Beneficiary was previously married, please provide proof of termination of that marriage (e.g. death certificate of spouse, final divorce decree or annulment).

Gulp. I was married in 1990, divorced in 2008. I've already provided the certified final divorce decree. I mailed in a copy of divorce decree with our I-129F petition , and the original is with my fiancee to show at interview, if required. But I do not have the marriage certificate to a marriage which took place 18 years ago in 1990, which ended bitterly and for which I kept no records. I don't know why they would need the old marriage certificate since I have the divorce decree to prove it's over.

Are there any divorced people who applied for K-1 through BKK consulate who can tell me if they indeed require old marriage certificates?

[payxibka 10,048]

Bangkok, Thailand has an online posting of the checklist to be followed by K-1 applicants for Packet-3: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/k_visa_packet3.pdf

One thing they list has me worried - the checklist asks for:

Marriage Certificates: Both Petitioner and Beneficiary should submit a certified copy of all marriage certificates. If either Petitioner or Beneficiary was previously married, please provide proof of termination of that marriage (e.g. death certificate of spouse, final divorce decree or annulment).

Gulp. I was married in 1990, divorced in 2008. I've already provided the certified final divorce decree. I mailed in a copy of divorce decree with our I-129F petition , and the original is with my fiancee to show at interview, if required. But I do not have the marriage certificate to a marriage which took place 18 years ago in 1990, which ended bitterly and for which I kept no records. I don't know why they would need the old marriage certificate since I have the divorce decree to prove it's over.

Are there any divorced people who applied for K-1 through BKK consulate who can tell me if they indeed require old marriage certificates?

copies are available at the courthouse where your marriage was registered... a bitter or amicable divorce is irrelevant..... i doubt the clerk at the courthouse will give you a lot of grief...

[scandal 951]

copies are available at the courthouse where your marriage was registered... a bitter or amicable divorce is irrelevant..... i doubt the clerk at the courthouse will give you a lot of grief...

I should have pointed out ...

The marriage took place in Israel, and was registered there with the religious courts (Bet Din), who do not have computerized records as far as I know. Meaning that getting an extract would involve a personal visit to the court in Haifa, Israel (I'm in the US, so I'd probably ask my brother to go on my behalf), then getting it translated from Hebrew to English and certifying the translation, and then mailing it to Thailand. Which I can do, but this will take time, effort, and money. That's why I'm asking if it's likely to be necessary before going to those lengths.

[payxibka 10,048]

All I can say is that consulates are fussy about the paperwork... BKK is known to be fairly stringent..

[birch- phuk_beer 0]

they want divorce decrees to ensure that your able to remarry.

If either Petitioner or Beneficiary was previously married, please provide proof of termination of that marriage (e.g. death certificate of spouse, final divorce decree or annulment).

[scandal 951]

they want divorce decrees to ensure that your able to remarry.

If either Petitioner or Beneficiary was previously married, please provide proof of termination of that marriage (e.g. death certificate of spouse, final divorce decree or annulment).

Yes, I realize why they want the divorce decree, to ensure that I am free to marry. And I have that, as stated.

But you didn't really address my question. In addition to the divorce decree - which clearly I must provide - do they ALSO require the marriage certificate? The language in the instructions is ambiguous.

Firstly, they write: Both Petitioner and Beneficiary should submit a certified copy of all marriage certificates

What does 'should' mean? Do I interpret it as 'must'? Or something less strong, more nuanced? Just an advisory?

Secondly they conjoin the two sentences imprecisely.

If they had written: "Both Petitioner and Beneficiary should submit a certified copy of all marriage certificates. If either Petitioner or Beneficiary was previously married, please provide proof of termination of that marriage (e.g. death certificate of spouse, final divorce decree or annulment) INSTEAD OF PROVIDING PROOF OF THAT MARRIAGE"

or if they had written: "Both Petitioner and Beneficiary should submit a certified copy of all marriage certificates. If either Petitioner or Beneficiary was previously married, please provide proof of termination of that marriage (e.g. death certificate of spouse, final divorce decree or annulment) IN ADDITION TO PROVIDING PROOF OF THAT MARRIAGE"

(italics are mine in both cases) it would have been crystal clear. But I'm not sure from their text if providing proof of divorce is supposed to be seen as 'AND' or 'OR' proof of marriage.

That's why I am asking if anyone DIVORCED had a successful K-1 interview in BKK, was the proof of original marriage necessary?

Thx.

[payxibka 10,048]

maybe you need to w-mail the consulate and ask them.... or pose this question in the Sawasdee2 thread....

[pushbrk 13,449]

All I can say is that consulates are fussy about the paperwork... BKK is known to be fairly stringent..

They are, but the general purpose for providing a past marriage certificate is to track name changes due to marriage. If you are male or didn't change your name, I would email the Consulate directly to deterimine whether a former marriage certificate is needed under your circumstances. Even if female with a name change, there may be other documentation to show the name change. For instance Washington State divorce decrees show the female's maiden name.

[rin and john 71]

I did not supply the consulate with my previous marriage certification, only my divorce decree.

[pushbrk 13,449]

I did not supply the consulate with my previous marriage certification, only my divorce decree.

Somtimes these lists of documents are boiler plate and some are only suggestions, not requirements. Unless there is an issue of name change (which there is unlikely to be if you are the male) there's no practical need for a prior marriage certificate. For a female who changed her family name for a prior marriage the need may well be very real.

[scandal 951]

All I can say is that consulates are fussy about the paperwork... BKK is known to be fairly stringent..

They are, but the general purpose for providing a past marriage certificate is to track name changes due to marriage. If you are male or didn't change your name, I would email the Consulate directly to deterimine whether a former marriage certificate is needed under your circumstances. Even if female with a name change, there may be other documentation to show the name change. For instance Washington State divorce decrees show the female's maiden name.

Thanks.

I did in fact have a name change, but as a young child (age 7). My parents changed my middle name on the original NY state birth record. I submitted this, of course, with the I-129F. My first & last name have never changed. The name on my original marriage, divorce, and current legal name are all identical.

Also my fiancee changed her first name when she was 16. Apparently that's quite common in Thailand. She, too, has the official registration of this along with a certified translation to present at interview.

So in short - my old marriage certificate will not have any bearing on name-change history.

I've received two responses from divorced guys who succeeded in getting K-3 at interviews in Bangkok with only their divorce decrees and not their old marriage certificate. Based upon that, I'm inclined to relax about this matter. One response was here on my question, the other in a private PM. But.. since both were K-3s and not K-1s, there's still some uncertainty.

I think I will follow the advice given here to (a) send an email to the embassy to ask them directly and (b ) ask my question on the sawasdee Thailand thread.

Thanks all!

[ready4ONE 5,400]

copies are available at the courthouse where your marriage was registered... a bitter or amicable divorce is irrelevant..... i doubt the clerk at the courthouse will give you a lot of grief...

I should have pointed out ...

The marriage took place in Israel, and was registered there with the religious courts (Bet Din), who do not have computerized records as far as I know. Meaning that getting an extract would involve a personal visit to the court in Haifa, Israel (I'm in the US, so I'd probably ask my brother to go on my behalf), then getting it translated from Hebrew to English and certifying the translation, and then mailing it to Thailand. Which I can do, but this will take time, effort, and money. That's why I'm asking if it's likely to be necessary before going to those lengths.

Always better safe than sorry. Probably going to owe your brother big time, but getting the marriage certificate should not be overlooked. Good luck!

[Mountain Climber 186]

I did not supply the consulate with my previous marriage certification, only my divorce decree.

I emailed the US Consulate in Thailand regarding this issue when I was going through the K1 process. Their response was that I only needed to provide the divorce decree. That is what I provided and it was not an issue at the interview.

Good luck!