I just HAD to say something ...

[keltic 1]

Respect vs. Fear

some clips (note where dysfunctional is mentioned):

Confusion Between Respect, Obedience and Fear

A New York City gang member was asked why he carried a gun. He replied: "Before I had this gun, I didn't get no respect. Now I do."

Similarly, teachers and parents often belief that if a child obeys them, or says "Yes, Sir/ No, Sir," it means the child respects them. Several teachers have told me they felt more respected when there was more 'discipline' in the classrooms. When I probed deeper, without fail they made it clear that they were talking about a time when there was more use of corporal punishment in school, and thus more fear of physical pain for disobedience.

There is a danger in mislabeling fear as respect. To use an analogy, consider what would happen if two jars in the medicine cabinet were mislabeled. What if poison ivy lotion were labeled as cough syrup, or chlorine as contact lens cleaner?

Here are some comparisons between fear and respect:

Fear is toxic.

Respect is nurturing.

Fear destroys self-confidence. Respect builds it.

Fear is life-threatening. Respect is life-enhancing.

Fear is forced. Respect is earned.

Fear is learned. Respect is earned.

To confuse the two creates serious problems for society.

................................................................................

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Authority, Fear and Respect

It seems that authority has two basic sources: fear and respect. On the continuum below, we can see that the total source of a person's authority could be thought of as equal to the combination of how much they are feared plus how much they are respected.

Source of Authority

Fear..............Respect

___________________

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Fear + Respect = Total Source of Authority

For example, in a dysfunctional family a child might fear their parents 8 and respect them 2, for a total of 10. In a healthier family the authority base might be more like Fear 1, Respect 9, again for a total of 10. (See small sample study)

Those in positions of authority often expect and try to demand that those beneath them show 'respect.' But if they have not first earned respect by showing it (which is done by respecting the other person's feelings and needs), they may find that their power is actually based on fear. Once a person no longer fears such an authority figure (AF), then the AF's power base quickly disappears out from under them, often leaving them feeling frustrated, powerless, confused and resentful.

[Jenn! 918]

And another thing, a child should *NEVER* be afraid of their parents, OR anyone in a position of power.

Do you at least recognize that this is a subjective point? I, for one, do not feel that way.

That was Joel responding there...as he stated before he posted his opinion.

And no...why do I need to recognize this as a subjective point? Do you want your child afraid of you? I'm through with this.

I don't know why you're getting so upset. I agree with what Merc posted before about fear and respect.

Of course children shouldn't fear for their safety, but I think that children should learn to fear consequences of their actions. Like Merc said, I was afraid of disappointing my mother, not because she threatened me, but because she had high standards for me.

People definitely have different styles for raising their children, and I think that's ok.

[mercuryroad 0]

Fuzzness talking here....

First of all, I *DO* have a right to tell you how to raise your kids!!!!! Doesn't mean I should most of the time, but in extreme cases I will.

Secondly, you do *NOT* have the right to abuse a person, child or adult, man or woman, whatever. Shoving food down someones throat is abuse, and keeping on doing it once they are gagging is even more abuse.

If I do see someone abusing a child, I will do something. If you don't like it, call the ###### police. we'll see who the police sides with.

And another thing, a child should *NEVER* be afraid of their parents, OR anyone in a position of power. Parents should be there to guide children in the right direction AND to protect them.

And whoever said choking someone was not a life threatening situation, think again. People have DIED from choking.

If you see abuse happening and you do nothing, you are guilty like the abuser. I know that's a cliche, but it's a good one.

sigh... and yes, i have restrained myself...

You're totally off your rocker dude. This case was not abuse. If abuse was happening, then by all means say something....if not, then shut the hell up unless you want your life and parenting style examined too.

Children should definately fear their parents wrath. That has positive implications on how you act. There's been many times where I've said to someone "I'd never do that because my mom would kick my @ss". That's true even to this day and I love her for that. That fear is what helped me make some good decisions and avoid some bad ones.

And no, you don't have the right to tell me how to raise my kids thank you. And if you did share an opinion it d@mn better well have been requested or under an extreme circustance. The fact is that you cannot know the entire story or what all is going on so you are in no position to comment.......Dixie's example - definately do and say something......this example is totally different though.

I agree with you......call the police if you really feel the child is in danger.

[Dixie_Peach 1]

Of course children need boundaries, discipline, rules, and the like. Children should indeed respect their parents simply because they are their parents.

But parents likewise ought to be able to establish those boundaries and feelings of respect without resorting to force, cruelty, and harsh intimidation.

i agree pax...

my mom was NOT huge on spanking... she felt she could get a better response from tugging our ear... because you will DEFINITELY follow that ear... lol...

i have had to spank my son occasionally... but always, it was easier to get his attention to focus on his wrongdoing when i took away his privileges... IE: read ninetendo, skateboard, phone, etc... lol...

i believe in both actually... the time out and the spankings... but it has to depend on the severity of the situation...

As the Bible tells us: "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24)

i think that when merc talks about fearing his mother... he means it in the biblical way of RESPECT...

not to fear as in terror...

[Fuzzness 2]

Fuzzness talking here....

First of all, I *DO* have a right to tell you how to raise your kids!!!!! Doesn't mean I should most of the time, but in extreme cases I will.

Secondly, you do *NOT* have the right to abuse a person, child or adult, man or woman, whatever. Shoving food down someones throat is abuse, and keeping on doing it once they are gagging is even more abuse.

If I do see someone abusing a child, I will do something. If you don't like it, call the ###### police. we'll see who the police sides with.

And another thing, a child should *NEVER* be afraid of their parents, OR anyone in a position of power. Parents should be there to guide children in the right direction AND to protect them.

And whoever said choking someone was not a life threatening situation, think again. People have DIED from choking.

If you see abuse happening and you do nothing, you are guilty like the abuser. I know that's a cliche, but it's a good one.

sigh... and yes, i have restrained myself...

You're totally off your rocker dude. This case was not abuse. If abuse was happening, then by all means say something....if not, then shut the hell up unless you want your life and parenting style examined too.

Children should definately fear their parents wrath. That has positive implications on how you act. There's been many times where I've said to someone "I'd never do that because my mom would kick my @ss". That's true even to this day and I love her for that. That fear is what helped me make some good decisions and avoid some bad ones.

And no, you don't have the right to tell me how to raise my kids thank you. And if you did share an opinion it d@mn better well have been requested or under an extreme circustance. The fact is that you cannot know the entire story or what all is going on so you are in no position to comment.......Dixie's example - definately do and say something......this example is totally different though.

I agree with you......call the police if you really feel the child is in danger.

no I am not off my rocker

and the first amendment gives me the RIGHT to tell you how to raise your kids. If you don't like it, move to another country where that freedom is not available.

parents should nurture their child, not scare the ###### out of them.

AND.... what possible reason would monique have to lie about witnessing a child being abused? if you don't think she was lying, are you saying that shoving food down a child's throat is not abuse?

[ace13 0]

I don;t think we are getting anywhere.

This could go on and on. Do you think it is ok to ever raise your voice at a child? Spank?

[Elizabethnhenry 0]

[Dixie_Peach 1]

Children should definately fear their parents wrath. That has positive implications on how you act. There's been many times where I've said to someone "I'd never do that because my mom would kick my @ss". That's true even to this day and I love her for that. That fear is what helped me make some good decisions and avoid some bad ones.

i don't want my son to be terrified of me... i want him to fear the result of his actions... if it is misled, wrong, etc...

the respectful type of fear i am talking about helps to shape him... into the type of man that i desire for him to be... someone just, honest, caring, respectful...

plus... i want him to fear me in the sense of that his actions would disappoint me, etc... again... only if they are wrong... and by wrong, i mean morally, legally, emotionally, spiritually, religiously...

there was an opportunity at school for dev... there was an bigger kid picking on a smaller kid... they were in the same grade... and the bigger kid was much more sneaky and wily... devon took up for the smaller kid... but wound up getting into trouble...

dev's response was... ma, i'm sorry i got into trouble... but i did what i felt was right... how can i be disappointed in him for that?

again... i think it depends upon the situation... each of us has a different opinion of parenting... and abuse...

it bothers me when i see a child being abused verbally... but i can say that... okay, maybe they are having a bad day... i have gotten angry and yelled at dev... but when i see the physical... i see red...

let me get off of my soap box...

[Fandango 1,440]

Fuzz, if the child was being choked, do you think Gimy did an adequate job protecting her?

[Fuzzness 2]

no, Lisa, not at all, but then, I thought this was about telling people how to raise their kids?

[Dixie_Peach 1]

I don;t think we are getting anywhere.

This could go on and on. Do you think it is ok to ever raise your voice at a child? Spank?

ace... i think that there is a difference between yelling and raising your voice... no, i don't like yelling... but as an exasperated parent, have done it myself...

as far as spanking... yes, i agree with it if it fits the crime of the child... but not to the point where there is blood... or a life is at stake... sometimes, a swat on dev's behind was enough to hurt his feelings to know that what he did was wrong...

Edited June 1, 2006 by Dixie_Peach

[Fandango 1,440]

no, Lisa, not at all, but then, I thought this was about telling people how to raise their kids?

Well everyone's saying 'Abuse' and 'Choking' and whatnot, and I'm of the notion that if a child is getting choked the police should be involved.

What is the point otherwise? Think about it.

For the record, I was never in fear of physical pain with my parents...I was in fear of the reprocussions of my actions...and if a child fears no reprocussions, then I would say that's a bad thing.

[sarah and hicham 3]

I am one of those people who has no problem saying things to people if they're doing something totally rediculous, however sometimes you just have to bite your tongue. I try to think about whether I would want someone in a restaurant in front of others to tell me I did something wrong with my children and I wouldn't want that. Even if someone is doing something wrong, I think it's always best to quietly observe and if it's that serious then tell the authorities, child services or whoever. People raise their kids differently, some spank and some don't. Some go further than that which leads to abuse and violence in which case it is necessary to tell someone with authority. Although I would have been tempted to tell this lady in the restaurant not to do that, it wouldn't change anything because people like that tend not to listen to other people and they think that what they're doing is fine since she was doing it unfortunately. I'm just saying that maybe you felt better saying what you did, but I doubt it actually changed anything and if it did then it probably only made matters worse for the kids. That's just what I think don't hate me. haha.

Make love not war,

Sarah

[hockeygal 1]

I have never personally witnessed abuse, and I think my view of what abuse is would be much more stringent than a lot here. I was not at the restaurant, so I can't speak for that. I get bothered by harsh words, but as it has been said - I have no clue what the context of the situation is. Even beuatiful little girls with long black hair and blue eyes can spend a day being a huge brat and drive their parents to the brink. I'm just sayin'!

I did once tell a woman in an airport to give it a rest, because she was just so cranky and hostile with her kids and it was getting on my nerves. Naturally, she was offended, and she should have been, because I meant to be offensive!

The reason I say this is because I am a child of immigrants from the Mediterannean, and these people yell instead of speaking. Growing up, we drove my mother absolutely mad, and she used to yell in her broken English "Oh! Shaddap!!!" to us in public, waving her arms around. You guys would have probably thrown her in jail, and actually, I remember people staring at us offronted, and we'd tell our mother calmly "you can't say shut up to your children." and she wouldn't understand because she didn't get the subtlties of English.

Anyhow, my point is, my parents are great parents. Even when they were yelling I knew I was loved. We never feared them, but we respected them. I was never spanked, actually, but they yelled a lot, which I was recently informed by my friends is a form of child abuse. Where they get off calling me an abused child, I don't know. But they seem to think it is their right to sum up my entire childhood and my parents, as abusive, based on the yelling.

Again, I am not saying that the situation in the restaurant was not abuse - I wasn't there. I am just commenting on yelling is abuse thing. It really does depend!

[ace13 0]

I don;t think we are getting anywhere.

This could go on and on. Do you think it is ok to ever raise your voice at a child? Spank?

ace... i think that there is a difference between yelling and raising your voice... no, i don't like yelling... but as an exasperated parent, have done it myself...

as far as spanking... yes, i agree with it if it fits the crime of the child... but not to the point where there is blood... or a life is at stake... sometimes, a swat on dev's behind was enough to hurt his feelings to know that what he did was wrong...