WHAT MAKES PEOPLE VOTE REPUBLICAN?

[JULIAFERNO 0]

Other than that, I can't see any point of voting Democrat. There is nothing, nada, zip they have to offer me.

What a great republican campaign slogan..."It's all about ME! Me me me!"

Looks like you make an exemplary republican

is that too far off from how dems vote?

Most of the democrats that I know vote democratically because of the communal and societal ideals that democracy promotes, not only ideals that will benefit themselves, but ideals that benefit the whole. Most democrats are willing to pay higher taxes because the societal benefits outweigh the personal "loss".

from my view, those who vote democratic want all of the communal and societal stuff, yet a vast majority of them are at the lower end economically, i.e. it's voting for themself.

It would be interesting to see the statistics regarding the correlation between socioeconomic status and political affiliation. Anyone?

[amiquechu 0]

Other than that, I can't see any point of voting Democrat. There is nothing, nada, zip they have to offer me.

What a great republican campaign slogan..."It's all about ME! Me me me!"

Looks like you make an exemplary republican

is that too far off from how dems vote?

Most people on both sides vote for what they think will make life better for them and their family Dems can't deny that.

[IAMX 3,055]

Other than that, I can't see any point of voting Democrat. There is nothing, nada, zip they have to offer me.

What a great republican campaign slogan..."It's all about ME! Me me me!"

Looks like you make an exemplary republican

is that too far off from how dems vote?

Most of the democrats that I know vote democratically because of the communal and societal ideals that democracy promotes, not only ideals that will benefit themselves, but ideals that benefit the whole. Most democrats are willing to pay higher taxes because the societal benefits outweigh the personal "loss".

from my view, those who vote democratic want all of the communal and societal stuff, yet a vast majority of them are at the lower end economically, i.e. it's voting for themself.

Wow, you might want to tell most of the people in the Bay Area, who vote on average for a Democratic candidate by a margin relative to 70% Democratic - 30% Republican, and make amongst the highest wages (to counter the high costs of living) they're poor.

Most of the people who want to reap rewards without putting anything into the system are on both ends of the financial spectrum.

[dalegg 143]

If you look at McCain's economic plan, the main crux of it is continuing Bush's tax cuts for the rich. How is that helping our sagging economy right now?

But- Obama wants to raise the minimum wage constantly, and all this does is create more unemployment, and how does that help our sagging economy?

Here's what I see- From 1997 to July of 2007 there was no minimum wage increase, and unemployment seems to be pretty constant around 4.5%

09/01/1997 $5.15

07/24/2007 $5.85

07/24/2008 $6.55

07/24/2009 $7.25

So Starting in July of 2007 we have a minimum wage hike, and look at unemployment-

It's like as soon as the minimum wage is even slightly increased, unemployment rises, then at each successive raise, unemployment follows. Imagine what raising everone's salary to $10.00 and hour would do. This is also bad for the economy.

Edited September 13, 2008 by dalegg

[IAMX 3,055]

While minimum wages do increase unemployment, it also increases standard of living, as it is, and should be, relative to cost of living. As cost of living rises, so should the minimum wage.

[Dan J 277]

If you look at McCain's economic plan, the main crux of it is continuing Bush's tax cuts for the rich. How is that helping our sagging economy right now?

But- Obama wants to raise the minimum wage constantly, and all this does is create more unemployment, and how does that help our sagging economy?

Here's what I see- From 1997 to July of 2007 there was no minimum wage increase, and unemployment seems to be pretty constant around 4.5%

09/01/1997 $5.15

07/24/2007 $5.85

07/24/2008 $6.55

07/24/2009 $7.25

So Starting in July of 2007 we have a minimum wage hike, and look at unemployment-

It's like as soon as the minimum wage is even slightly increased, unemployment rises, then at each successive raise, unemployment follows. Imagine what raising everone's salary to $10.00 and hour would do. This is also bad for the economy.

Correlation does not prove causation. Unemployment at this time is primary effected by the real estate bubble bursting, and the credit crunch. If you want to prove that minimum wage is responsible for the current unemployment increases. You need to show the what the job loss has been in sectors where workers are actually paid minimum wage.

Right now the job loss has been pretty much concentrated in financial, construction and real estate sectors, few people in those sectors are actually making minimum wage.

[JULIAFERNO 0]

If you look at McCain's economic plan, the main crux of it is continuing Bush's tax cuts for the rich. How is that helping our sagging economy right now?

But- Obama wants to raise the minimum wage constantly, and all this does is create more unemployment, and how does that help our sagging economy?

Here's what I see- From 1997 to July of 2007 there was no minimum wage increase, and unemployment seems to be pretty constant around 4.5%

09/01/1997 $5.15

07/24/2007 $5.85

07/24/2008 $6.55

07/24/2009 $7.25

So Starting in July of 2007 we have a minimum wage hike, and look at unemployment-

It's like as soon as the minimum wage is even slightly increased, unemployment rises, then at each successive raise, unemployment follows. Imagine what raising everone's salary to $10.00 and hour would do. This is also bad for the economy.

Correlation does not prove causation. Unemployment at this time is primary effected by the real estate bubble bursting, and the credit crunch. If you want to prove that minimum wage is responsible for the current unemployment increases. You need to show the what the job loss has been in sectors where workers are actually paid minimum wage.

Right now the job loss has been pretty much concentrated in financial, construction and real estate sectors, few people in those sectors are actually making minimum wage.

Exactly! Gotta look at those intervening variables

[Ban Hammer 12,897]

Other than that, I can't see any point of voting Democrat. There is nothing, nada, zip they have to offer me.

What a great republican campaign slogan..."It's all about ME! Me me me!"

Looks like you make an exemplary republican

is that too far off from how dems vote?

Most of the democrats that I know vote democratically because of the communal and societal ideals that democracy promotes, not only ideals that will benefit themselves, but ideals that benefit the whole. Most democrats are willing to pay higher taxes because the societal benefits outweigh the personal "loss".

from my view, those who vote democratic want all of the communal and societal stuff, yet a vast majority of them are at the lower end economically, i.e. it's voting for themself.

Wow, you might want to tell most of the people in the Bay Area, who vote on average for a Democratic candidate by a margin relative to 70% Democratic - 30% Republican, and make amongst the highest wages (to counter the high costs of living) they're poor.

Most of the people who want to reap rewards without putting anything into the system are on both ends of the financial spectrum.

i've never lived in the bay area. again, you might note the phrase "from my view" meaning my personal experience.

[amiquechu 0]

If you look at McCain's economic plan, the main crux of it is continuing Bush's tax cuts for the rich. How is that helping our sagging economy right now?

But- Obama wants to raise the minimum wage constantly, and all this does is create more unemployment, and how does that help our sagging economy?

Here's what I see- From 1997 to July of 2007 there was no minimum wage increase, and unemployment seems to be pretty constant around 4.5%

09/01/1997 $5.15

07/24/2007 $5.85

07/24/2008 $6.55

07/24/2009 $7.25

So Starting in July of 2007 we have a minimum wage hike, and look at unemployment-

It's like as soon as the minimum wage is even slightly increased, unemployment rises, then at each successive raise, unemployment follows. Imagine what raising everone's salary to $10.00 and hour would do. This is also bad for the economy.

Correlation does not prove causation. Unemployment at this time is primary effected by the real estate bubble bursting, and the credit crunch. If you want to prove that minimum wage is responsible for the current unemployment increases. You need to show the what the job loss has been in sectors where workers are actually paid minimum wage.

Right now the job loss has been pretty much concentrated in financial, construction and real estate sectors, few people in those sectors are actually making minimum wage.

Exactly! Gotta look at those intervening variables

I've been hearing that everything bad, including unemployment, is all GW's fault. Sounds like that might not be the case.

[kaydee457 13]

I like Obama's claim that he wants to invest in alternative energy technology and envisions such technology bringing jobs to this country while helping us reduce our dependency on foreign oil.

You know the truth is that I like that too. I'll tell you what- the world that Democrats ideolize is actually very much in line with the way I'd like to live.

I really do not have any desires to be independantly wealthy. I am happy just living in suburbia and eating leftovers for dinner. I am happy with my public school and I am skeptical about vouchers.

I take the time to separate my garbage to where the recyclables actually go in the blue garbage can and I only have to set out an actual garbage can once a month.

I ration water. I wouldn't dream of driving a gas guzzler and I like to walk to places if they are close enough. I shut off every light in the house. I haven't turned on my A/C since June, and I keep all my windows open to save energy and really the electric bill with the A/C doesn't break my budget, and I turn my thermostat down to 65 degrees at night in the winter when I go to sleep. I do these things because this is how I like to live- and being a Christian, I believe we are actually supposed to live basic lives, not live of excess. I believe if we all lived like this, everything would be golden.

So, why do I vote Republican? Because we don't all live like this. In fact, the vast majority of us don't live like this if we have a choice. It is simply a fantasy. I cannot get my own wife to get off the kick of buying a bigger car even though she complains about high gas prices, so how can I expect 200,000,000 other people to?

Energy independance and living on alternative fuels will take conservation and sacrifice in the short term- do you not agree?, and I do not believe people will accept those sacrifices if they don't think they have to. In order to truly change our direction with energy dependance we are going to have to go through an initial period of pretty harsh conditions, like perhaps 4 or 5 years- just long enough for the current President and his plan that people will see causing them hardship to be swayed by the promise of a return to the easy life and voted out. And it will happen, because people are not patient, and people do not like to be poor. So it is a pointless exercise.

Other than that, I can't see any point of voting Democrat. There is nothing, nada, zip they have to offer me.

There's a whole range between our current way of doing things and your description above when it comes to energy conservation, but I was talking about something different - boosting our sagging economy by investing in alternative energy technology with the consequences being job growth as well as a reduction of dependency of foreign oil. McCain's promise isn't too far off from that same goal, it's just that both candidates have different ideas of going about doing that. If you look at McCain's economic plan, the main crux of it is continuing Bush's tax cuts for the rich. How is that helping our sagging economy right now? Not only that, when add all the things he wants to do, the 407B deficit will continue to grow under McCain. To be fair, it'll grow under either one, but according to economists, McCain's plans amount to a much higher deficit. And that deficit is one factor spinning us into a recession. The Republican Party since Reagan has never been concerned about deficit reduction and yet the economists have said over and over that reducing the deficit is one of the key components toward economic stability. Our economy is far worse than what most of us are feeling and we seriously need a President who is willing to abandon the current policies and adopt solid strategies for turning it around. McCain just isn't going to do that and has actually held firmly to the failed economic policies of the Bush Administration.

Same old tired argument. When will you starry-eyed "greenies" understand that these technologies can't in any way be competitive with oil? These technologies aren't anywhere near maturation to compete with existing fuels. You'll rarely see any statistics on efficiencies or the cost/recovery of investment over time vs. using existing fuels. Solar panel use is heavily subsidized in states like California with the cost of the subsidy borne by the state taxpayer, and still the systems make no economic sense. It takes years to recover the initial capital costs of purchase and installation.

Greenies ignore the cost of manufacturing these items, both in dollars, as well as the environmental costs that are simply displaced from the exhaust pipe of your car to the smokestack of factory.

Listening to some of these groups, and reading some of their propositions makes it sound like we can simply plant crops of solar panels, or lithium batteries in the Midwestern cornfields and use the "free" energy they produce. Nary does anyone address the cost of disposing all these devices at the end of their life cycle. What to do with millions of pounds of Lithium batteries per year going to salvage yards? Solar panels, same problem.

It's simply naive to believe that any of these technologies are going to do anything to alleviate the use of oil in this country in the short term, or even in the long term.

The most viable hope for reducing dependence on oil, in a practical manner, without relying on "pie in the sky" technologies is to develop more Nuclear Power to replace Oil, coal burning plants.

The most viable fuel for cars in the short term is LPG, and then Hydrogen.

The Nancy Pelosi’s and other delusional democrats want to place all our resources into developing technologies that may never pan out.

Plain dumb. That’s why I vote REPUBLICAN.

kaydee, you keep making those claims, but you can't back it up with any facts. We have and should continue to invest more into alternative energy not because anyone believe solar or wind power is going to replace oil...that's your dishonest claim of what Obama and others are proposing. Bush and McCain have also talked about a gradual shift towards alternative energy as a way to reduce our dependency on foreign oil. Your cynicism is predictable. Nobody is going to convince you to see things any other way. So be it.

I have backed up my claims in at least 5 other threads where you've posted this same delusional nonsense, however, the best proof of what I say being the truth is the fact that these technologies are not in wide use as we speak.

Anyone that knows anything about the marketplace knows that if any appliance, device, or technology comes along that can practically compete with existing sources of energy by making use of another source of energy, then those companies/people that have the lock on that process would make money beyond their wildest dreams......

No such viable devices, appliances, or technolgies exist as yet.

[cieloazul 0]

How long will we bury our heads in the sand and never seriously question what direction our country has taken.

Sounds like you might like the Party for Socialism and Liberation.

Here is what they stand for:

U.S. OUT OF IRAQ NOW

End the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. Bring all the troops home now.

Stop U.S. blockades & sanctions against Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, Korea, Sudan and everywhere.

End U.S. aid to Israel—Support the Palestinian people’s right of self-determination.

Free Puerto Rico.

International friendship and solidarity, not imperialist domination.

FIGHT THE CORPORATE BOSSES

Full employment—decent jobs for all. Job training for youth & the unemployed.

Raise the minimum wage to $15/hour now.

Free, quality healthcare for all.

Expand and guarantee social security for all retired workers, disabled and unemployed people.

Stop union-busting, expand the right to organize, including card-check recognition.

Free, high quality education from pre-school through college.

Housing is a right—End foreclosures and evictions.

Stop environmental destruction—Make the polluters pay.

Rebuild New Orleans—Right of return for all survivors.

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL

Fight racism and the racist criminal “justice” system.

Defend women’s reproductive rights, including the right to choose.

Full rights for all immigrants.

Reparations now for the African American community.

Eliminate anti-LGBT laws—Equal marriage rights for all.

Equality for disabled people.

Stop police brutality and mass incarceration.

Free Mumia Abu-Jamal, Leonard Peltier, the Cuban 5, Angola 3, S.F. 8 and all political prisoners.

SOCIALISM

End the rule of the billionaires, bankers and militarists—fight for workers’ democracy.

We need a sustainable economy based on meeting people’s needs, not making the rich richer.

We need socialism!

These ideas just go to show how conservative Obama is,,at least compared to the PSL.

[Peikko 1,575]

It's certainly pithy

[dalegg 143]

Correlation does not prove causation. Unemployment at this time is primary effected by the real estate bubble bursting, and the credit crunch. If you want to prove that minimum wage is responsible for the current unemployment increases. You need to show the what the job loss has been in sectors where workers are actually paid minimum wage.

Maybe not, but the problem is that it makes too much sense to dismiss it as simply coincidence. You'll have to tell me why an employer wouldn't start cutting his staff if he had to raise wages unless he simply could not run his business otherwise, at which point I'm afraid we start losing more businesses which will result of course in more unemployment.

[Dan J 277]

Correlation does not prove causation. Unemployment at this time is primary effected by the real estate bubble bursting, and the credit crunch. If you want to prove that minimum wage is responsible for the current unemployment increases. You need to show the what the job loss has been in sectors where workers are actually paid minimum wage.

Maybe not, but the problem is that it makes too much sense to dismiss it as simply coincidence. You'll have to tell me why an employer wouldn't start cutting his staff if he had to raise wages unless he simply could not run his business otherwise, at which point I'm afraid we start losing more businesses which will result of course in more unemployment.

Majority of minimum wage workers work in a service industry. Job losses have been starting to affect some of the service industries, but not because of the minimum wage changes. But because of the housing bubble, consumers have less disposable income. Layoffs have occurred in restaurants and hotels not because they have to pay their employees more, but because business has dropped off.

Minimum wage workers work mostly in service industries. A large number of them are young, and working part time jobs. While an increase in the minimum wage might affect unemployment, its effect will likely be relatively small provided the increases are not excessive.

[dalegg 143]

Correlation does not prove causation. Unemployment at this time is primary effected by the real estate bubble bursting, and the credit crunch. If you want to prove that minimum wage is responsible for the current unemployment increases. You need to show the what the job loss has been in sectors where workers are actually paid minimum wage.

Maybe not, but the problem is that it makes too much sense to dismiss it as simply coincidence. You'll have to tell me why an employer wouldn't start cutting his staff if he had to raise wages unless he simply could not run his business otherwise, at which point I'm afraid we start losing more businesses which will result of course in more unemployment.

Majority of minimum wage workers work in a service industry. Job losses have been starting to affect some of the service industries, but not because of the minimum wage changes. But because of the housing bubble, consumers have less disposable income. Layoffs have occurred in restaurants and hotels not because they have to pay their employees more, but because business has dropped off.

Minimum wage workers work mostly in service industries. A large number of them are young, and working part time jobs. While an increase in the minimum wage might affect unemployment, its effect will likely be relatively small provided the increases are not excessive.

I agree with you there, but I've heard terms like "The living wage" thrown around which propose doubling the minimum wage. I simply cannot believe that wouldn't create mayhem.