HELP: Contradictory Request for More I-751 Information

[ironwarrior 0]

I've looked over visajourney off and on over the last four years for various bits of information for my wife, but never created an account. Unfortunately, now is panic-time.

History: My wife came to the US from Australia, and we were married on March 10, 2004 (she's 19 years younger than me--if that has any bearing). Approximately two months after our marriage, we began the hellacious labyrinth of paperwork for her Permanent Residency. The process has been painfully slow, and we didn't even get her Social Security Card and Provisional Permanent Residence Card until October 2005.

On September 14, 2007, we sent in a voluminous box for Form I-751 that included the following:

(from the cover letter we submitted)

----------

Required Information

• Completed Form I-751

• Check for $545.00

• Copy of Permanent Residence Card

• Copy of joint 2005 & 2006 Federal and State Tax Returns

• Copy of joint personal checking account statement

• Copy of joint American Express Business Cards for newly formed joint S-Corporation

• Copy of Articles of Incorporation of joint principal ownership of newly established S-corporation. Principals are *wife-name removed* (51 shares) and *husband-name removed* (49 shares). (NOTE: Beginning January 2008, current primary sole-proprietorship Schedule C accounting will be exclusively through S-corporation.)

• Copy of joint credit cards

• Copy of State Farm joint whole life, interest bearing, retirement annuity Life Insurance policies

• Copy of receipt of payment for trip to Jamaica taken in June 2006

• Pictures of applicant and spouse at 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 family reunions

• Picture of applicant and sister-in-laws in Jamaica

• Miscellaneous picture

• Affidavits (NOTE: includes one handwritten affidavit by nephew who wanted to submit a letter) NOTE: 6 affidavits were submitted.

Miscellaneous Information

• Copy of Marriage License

• Copy of applicant’s social security card

• Copy of applicant’s GED

• Copy of applicant’s pay stub for 2007 spring/summer job at Gamestop

• Copy of applicant’s Dell credit account

• Copy of applicant’s renewed Australian passport (spouse and residence address now on file at Australian Embassy in Washington, DC)

-----------

We have been waiting nearly one year for any response (we completed the Biometric portion in Nov. 2007), and LO AND BEHOLD, today we receive a Notice of Action on blue paper with Item #1 stating the following:

The documentation submitted is insufficient. United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) requires certain additional documentation in order to process your application/petition. Please respond with evidence requested on the attached pages.

Then our lovely government got more ridiculous and surreal when I looked at the attached pages. This paragraph I found absurd beyond comprehension:

It is noted however, that only evidence submitted was the copy of the applications for Life Insurance with invoice and the bank statement from August 2007.

Then came the BIG WHAMMY! in the next paragraph:

Supporting documents must cover as much of the marital period as possible, must also indicate joint financial responsibility and joint residency for that same time period. Copies of income tax returns (not provided by the IRS), affidavits, and pictures in and of themselves are not concrete evidence that a marriage is bona fide. The travel itinerary, Articles of Corporation (sic), and copies of credit cards with no statements, provides very little proof that a marriage is bona fide.

This fired me up...and in a righteous manner. EVERYTHING I submitted was as per their directions for I-751, and I took it personally that they are indirectly implying that my tax returns may be fraudulent. To make matters worse, they include this little statement: Do not send copies of documents previously submitted.

Summarizing the Notice of Action, the USCIS is requesting I send the exact same information they requested on the form I-751 (they provide the list).

I need some help and advice!

As it relates to the requested (again) information, some is not applicable, relevant or even exists:

1) We don't have children and never will..period

2) Can't show joint ownership of house--I refinanced 6 months before I was married.

3) Very, very few of our financial records (excepting what was listed above) have joint ownership and never will because I have been self-employed for 15 years. Almost everything either goes through my sole-proprietorship or the new S-Corp

4) Can't show joint ownership of autos--bought before I was married. Also, my wife doesn't have her driver's license.

5) The USCIS retards want MORE affidavits. Six wasn't enough?

6) They then want 2 ADDITIONAL affidavits somehow confirming the same affidavit information as before AND joint ownership of property, bills, etc.

As I said, I'm fired up! The USCIS is mandating we get ALL the information they want to their Vermont office before September 27, 2008. Unbelievable. It took months for me to compile the blasted information the first time!

SO, any advice or suggestions? PLEASE...I'm begging. Left on my own, my temper will get the best of me, and I'll end up sending whatever I can get (e.g.: IRS transcripts--if they arrive on time) AND a righteous letter written in very expansive legalese disputing their Notice of Action with it CC'd to my US Representative. Probably make matters worse, no doubt.

IW

[AussieDude 0]

My first advice is not to take it personally and not to let them get the better of you. A large bureaucracy like USCIS unfortunately does get a little clueless about its own goings on.

I have a feeling that they may have accidently displaced some of your proof (read 'they lost it'), and some time having passed since your original submission, they may want a little more recent evidence. Unsurprisingly, its from the Vermont service center, which is known to be less competent on the 751 process.

Without getting too worked up, re-assemble all the original evidence you sent in, with further supporting evidence as per their suggestions, add anything else from recent documents (ie since submission), and anything else you see that others have suggested (eg driver's licenses from the same address etc).

It may be that the discrepancy in your ages may have elevated their suspicion levels, or it may be that you got some stickler.

If it makes you feel better, most people who get an RFE, respond to it with what USCIS asks for, usually get an approval in a couple of weeks. Not everyone gets an RFE, but its not entirely rare either. Those from the Vermont service center seem to get them more often (from anecdotal evidence as seen on this forum).

The worst that can happen is that you may get called in for an interview, and you have nothing to worry about since you are in a valid relationship.

[gwsmith01 1]

The same thing happened tu us with VSC. We just sent everything we previously sent with any updated info and got IRS tax transcripts for the past 3 years tax returns. We got approved about 4 weeks later.

The USCIS could have lost some of your stuff or did one of those random RFEs. Just send the response to the RFE and chances are you could get approved. Worst case scenario for now would be an interview with both spouses.

[Marilyn. 340]

yeah I would just resend everything.. they probably lost your paperwork.. it happens...

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Additional evidence to include would be your 2007 tax returns and your wills if you have them done - and you can do them quickly if you don't. Include copies of any letters or correspondence addressed to the two of you at the same address; any magazine subscriptions, the same; do you have a family plan for phones where you each have a cell phone number? Include some credit card statements showing both of you using the credit card account, plus more bank statements showing both your names on the statements that include 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 to show the whole time of the marriage. In the covering letter address the issue of re-financing the mortgage before the marriage and that it is not a financially realistic plan to re-finance now with your wife's information. You may be able to add her to the deed of the house, however if you are in a joint property state she automatically becomes joint property owner on marriage. Your cover letter could address that as well explaining it is a waste of money to do additional paper work to prove something that already exists by law. What about health coverage? Is she included on any joint plan with you? If so, include the paperwork proof and copies of claims.

I am surprised at their request but I suspect a lot of the information you submitted is now 'out of date' (due to their inefficiency) and you can update it with more recent information. It does sound like you didn't send a lot of evidence that covers the whole period of your marriage as well. It could also be that they are trying to 'buy' time since they are so backlogged they are grabbing at any straws to make it look like they are actually getting work done and trying to justify the delays by saying the applications required RFE's.

Good luck.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Kathryn41

[lawrencetoland 3]

Also I would leave off anything having to do with your business. She came here to be with you and anything business related could raise suspicion that she immigrated here for purposes other than what she originally said.

Hope this helps!

[AussieDude 0]

Also I would leave off anything having to do with your business. She came here to be with you and anything business related could raise suspicion that she immigrated here for purposes other than what she originally said.

Hope this helps!

Good suggestion. Funnily enough, I was given similar advice about showing how my wife and I had helped out a member of her family. To keep it short, a close relative of hers was in some financial need and we gave him some money. When I thought about showing this as evidence of showing some kindness to my new family, I was advised that it would be looked at suspiciously, as if I was somehow 'paying' for my residency. Of all the absurd things! You'd think helping out a member of your new family would be a sign of a bona-fide relationship!

[ironwarrior 0]

Thanks for all the information! Let me see if I can detail a bit more historical data:

1) When my wife and I got married, she was basically interested in just being a housewife and could not care less about the financial issues, employment, etc. This was fine by me since it took a good year for her to get acclimated to a change in culture and environment.

2) Regardless of her initial decision, any financial commingling was moot: NO bank or other financial institution would allow any joint accounts or assets until she had a SS#. We were not able to get a SS# until after Nov. 2005 (I still have the postmarked envelope).

3) Not mentioning business inclusiveness probably would be fraudulent (from a tax standpoint) since all my tax returns before and after marriage are heavily weighted toward Schedule C (with accompanying depreciation, self-employment tax, etc.).

4) The points about not mentioning our S-Corp surprised me, but OTOH, doesn't surprise me where the USCIS is concerned since they apparently aren't the brightest bulbs in the box. I am at a loss on this as it is something that has to be mentioned (again from a tax standpoint). Also, this is not something that can be undone as I have been slowly (dear God, is it slow) attempting to reallocate assets under my sole-proprietorship to the S-Corp. Since she has controlling interest, my wife actually has a greater implicit ownership than a standard marital asset (in my State, all marital assets acquired by me before marriage remain mine, particularly as a sole-proprietor). I only just filed S-Corp tax form 1120S, but it contains Schedule K-1 showing officer compensation (I can't provide a transcript in the time frame that USCIS wants).

5) Almost all credit cards were initially in my name and she was just added to the account. The statements only show my name; hence, why I sent photocopies of the actual cards (last four numbers blacked out).

6) We have two joint checking accounts, but they are very, very rarely used since liability payments are either through my sole-proprietorship or current S-Corp.

7) I am unable to obtain health insurance--too costly.

8) The cell phone idea sounds good if I can find any bill that directly mentions the "Family Plan." As with ALL bills, my name is the only name on the bill.

9) I have worked out my house for the last 3 years. My wife and I are around each other 24/7, but I really have no way to "prove" that she is around all the time.

10) On Dec. 27, 2007, we purchased a new car under the S-Corp, but due to credit worthiness, I am the Guarantor on the Note. Technically, she owns 51% of the vehicle, but I don't know if I can explain this in the language that the imbeciles from USCIS can understand.

What truly irks me (beyond them questioning my taxes) is how they glossed over any pictures I sent. Anyone with an iota of commonsense could realize that four years of family reunion pictures showing my wife and I standing with 10-15 family members each year is a strong indicator that my marriage is bona fide. Also, my wife has a strong relationship with my family, and they provided 1/2 of the original affidavits (NOTE: Her family DOES NOT acknowledge our marriage due to differences in religion).

I wish I was a lawyer as I'd file a civil suit against USCIS for "emotional duress." Sure, I know the government is immune to these lawsuits, but maybe it would wake these morons up and let them know not everyone is trying to "screw the system." I am a licensed architect and due to State-regulated professional licensure, I am under careful scrutiny--defrauding the government isn't even an imaginable option.

If USCIS wants to interview us...nay, no reason for euphemisms--we all know the word "interrogate" is more appropriate; FINE. Have at it. Dragging this process out is maddening.

Any additional comments are welcome as the clock counts down.

[wannabe_texan 0]

So sorry to hear about all this...

Do get transcripts from the IRS as opposed to just making a copy of your returns. These days, they really want to see transcripts (which are free from the IRS) as opposed to a 1040 that anyone could fill in.

Do you have some joint memberships, for social things like Blockbuster, Sams Club/Costco, local gym etc that are in both names. Even though you may not be able to show joint checking perhaps you can show these things being paid for both of you from an individual account.

The deed on the house, if you are not in a joint prop state, can be changed with the help of a realtor friend.

And also now you have actual activity on the credit cards to show, so you should have a few of those statements to include.

I hope this is of some help, and I wish you luck!

[ironwarrior 0]

Texan: Thank you for the gym mention! I forgot about that. My architecture firm not only designed the addition to the gym that I am a member, but my wife and I have had a family membership there since the addition was finished.

I already submitted one affidavit from someone who works at the gym who has known me for about 15 years, but I'll see if I can get another affidavit from him with a statement regarding our membership.

I'm trying to get transcripts and am having my State Farm agent (who has known me for years) write an affidavit detailing the Life Insurance policy and other insurance related items.

My main problem is time--USCIS has created an unreasonable burden.

I am itching to write a fiery reply when I send everything in. Should I explain to them in eloquent language how they have caused an unreasonable amount of stress and capriciously reviewed the previous material?

Edited August 19, 2008 by ironwarrior

[lawrencetoland 3]

Take a deep breath and step back from this. It can only hurt your case if your lose your temper. The reason I told you not to include business information in there is because there are specific visas for that (entrepreneur visa) including having to have a large sum of money in order to do so. There are also H visas and L visas that have limit caps so in providing business information in your application, it makes it look like business is what she came here for. I understand where you are coming from because I am a small business owner (S-corp as well) and my husband, even though he works for my company, is not on any of my records, other than payroll. He didn't come here for business, he came here for love. At our AOS interview, my interviewer was very helpful in making it clear that the fact he worked for our family business raised a bit of suspiscion.

But more than anything, it is probably just that they lost your information. It happens, what with millions of files running around there. I would submit a copy of the 6 affadavits, include the 2 new ones they asked for, and submit your 2008 data for your personal accounts including your tax transcripts and that letter from your insurance agent is a good idea. Just follow the letter as much as you can and provide your old data as well as your new data from 2008. I really hope this helps!

[tom&tata 2]

I would resend what you sent - same as other I suspect they may have lost some of the documents. Few things comes to mind:

- tax returns - send out the first & up to the last years you filed together. The one you order from IRS usually comes within 1 week or so.

- joint checking - several statements covering the span of marriage (we sent 4 statements covering 1.5 years)

- insurance policy - we sent out at least 2 renewal papers for joint car insurance

- cell phone - family coverage with 2 different number (3 statements covering 1 year)

- driver license - showing same residency/address

- credit card - copy of card under both names with 3 statements

If you haven't done in initial package, try to send more than 1 statement to show that co-mingle happens throughout the period of marriage.

Good luck. It might be they lost your document. It happened before.

[AussieDude 0]

As with Lawrence, don't get too angry about this. The letter they've sent may sound serious, but these are usually from standard templates and they sound worse than they really are. The fact is, when push comes to shove, they can't expect you to have a marriage that is any different to a marriage between two US citizens. If they indeed end up calling you in for an interview, you look pretty solid, so you really have nothing to worry about.

I, like you, have found that what seems to count as good evidence may not work for our personal situation, but I have been biting the bullet for a couple of years so I can get through this. For example, I'm finding that joint accounts don't work for us, its more problematic for our marriage with joint accounts, than it would have been if we had them seperately. I couldn't even apply for my own phone when I first arrived, since I had no credit history. And around here, most utility companies/bills are only assigned to one name (even if you are lucky enough to get them addressed to two people, the one person whose SSN is recorded against the bill is the actual person responsible). In my opinion, it would be easier to assemble this evidence in a sham marriage than it is for a real one. How many people sit around to think 'Hmm, how should I set up this purchase/membership/etc so that it looks like good evidence for a real marriage?'. I will be really glad when all this is over so that we can do what's easy and right, rather than what looks good.

Stay calm, relax, and just send in as best you can what they've asked for. I'm betting you'll probably be through it fairly quickly after that. You can use this forum to vent if it helps with your frustrations

One tip for transcripts, there is an option to have them faxed to you, and from what I hear its much quicker than getting them mailed to you. You sound like you might have access to a fax machine

[ironwarrior 0]

You guys are great!

One of my degrees is English education, and I tend to go on a ballistic tirade filled with voluminous exposition (see?--ha-ha). Architectural clients who have tried to undermine me have learned to their chagrin why I have the reputation of being the "lawyer-architect." Unfortunately, I tend to get out of hand as my ire rises.

My job is extremely stressful, and this added stress is causing me great angst. Regardless, I need to heed the advice offered, take a deep breath, and chug onward while burying USCIS in a mound of requested paper.

I'm going to attempt to have the deed on my house changed tomorrow to show both my wife and me. Also, I just paid off one vehicle and if I receive the title in time, I'm going to attempt to change the registration to include both our names. As real and joint property goes, excepting the vehicle purchased through our S-Corp, that is the absolute limit available.

Also, my wife and I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow. Our doctor is the same we have had since she came into the country, and I'm going to ask him to write an affidavit with some record of our appointments over the last 4 years (if I don't run into HIPA obstacles).

I'm sure I can think of additional items above and beyond the original material, but I'm admittedly scatterbrained at the moment.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Thanks for all the information! Let me see if I can detail a bit more historical data:

1) When my wife and I got married, she was basically interested in just being a housewife and could not care less about the financial issues, employment, etc. This was fine by me since it took a good year for her to get acclimated to a change in culture and environment.

2) Regardless of her initial decision, any financial commingling was moot: NO bank or other financial institution would allow any joint accounts or assets until she had a SS#. We were not able to get a SS# until after Nov. 2005 (I still have the postmarked envelope).

3) Not mentioning business inclusiveness probably would be fraudulent (from a tax standpoint) since all my tax returns before and after marriage are heavily weighted toward Schedule C (with accompanying depreciation, self-employment tax, etc.).

4) The points about not mentioning our S-Corp surprised me, but OTOH, doesn't surprise me where the USCIS is concerned since they apparently aren't the brightest bulbs in the box. I am at a loss on this as it is something that has to be mentioned (again from a tax standpoint). Also, this is not something that can be undone as I have been slowly (dear God, is it slow) attempting to reallocate assets under my sole-proprietorship to the S-Corp. Since she has controlling interest, my wife actually has a greater implicit ownership than a standard marital asset (in my State, all marital assets acquired by me before marriage remain mine, particularly as a sole-proprietor). I only just filed S-Corp tax form 1120S, but it contains Schedule K-1 showing officer compensation (I can't provide a transcript in the time frame that USCIS wants).

5) Almost all credit cards were initially in my name and she was just added to the account. The statements only show my name; hence, why I sent photocopies of the actual cards (last four numbers blacked out).

6) We have two joint checking accounts, but they are very, very rarely used since liability payments are either through my sole-proprietorship or current S-Corp.

7) I am unable to obtain health insurance--too costly.

8) The cell phone idea sounds good if I can find any bill that directly mentions the "Family Plan." As with ALL bills, my name is the only name on the bill.

9) I have worked out my house for the last 3 years. My wife and I are around each other 24/7, but I really have no way to "prove" that she is around all the time.

10) On Dec. 27, 2007, we purchased a new car under the S-Corp, but due to credit worthiness, I am the Guarantor on the Note. Technically, she owns 51% of the vehicle, but I don't know if I can explain this in the language that the imbeciles from USCIS can understand.

What truly irks me (beyond them questioning my taxes) is how they glossed over any pictures I sent. Anyone with an iota of commonsense could realize that four years of family reunion pictures showing my wife and I standing with 10-15 family members each year is a strong indicator that my marriage is bona fide. Also, my wife has a strong relationship with my family, and they provided 1/2 of the original affidavits (NOTE: Her family DOES NOT acknowledge our marriage due to differences in religion).

I wish I was a lawyer as I'd file a civil suit against USCIS for "emotional duress." Sure, I know the government is immune to these lawsuits, but maybe it would wake these morons up and let them know not everyone is trying to "screw the system." I am a licensed architect and due to State-regulated professional licensure, I am under careful scrutiny--defrauding the government isn't even an imaginable option.

If USCIS wants to interview us...nay, no reason for euphemisms--we all know the word "interrogate" is more appropriate; FINE. Have at it. Dragging this process out is maddening.

Any additional comments are welcome as the clock counts down.

So your wife receives a K-1 showing her 51% share of your practice? If you file joint tax returns, her K-1 figures would be included, no?