Randomness

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

If something is designed to be random, is it still random?

[Jenn! 918]

No generated process is truly random.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

That's what I told them!

This is from a work call I was stuck on late last night. I shouldn't have gotten into it, but I did and it got weird.

[Ban Hammer 14,594]

If something is designed to be random, is it still random?

let's test that - see if we can get a comment by boo-yah.

[mendeleev 69]

A well-controlled manufacturing process, in which special cause upsets are thoroughly engineered out of the process, generates random variation. That random variation can be used as a source of random numbers. Those random numbers could be considered to be generated by design.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

A well-controlled manufacturing process, in which special cause upsets are thoroughly engineered out of the process, generates random variation. That random variation can be used as a source of random numbers. Those random numbers could be considered to be generated by design.

But they're not truly random. Any algorithm that generates random numbers uses a non-random seed value.

[Nessa 23]

no. I don't think illegal aliens are the cause of global warming.

[pedroh 21]

A well-controlled manufacturing process, in which special cause upsets are thoroughly engineered out of the process, generates random variation. That random variation can be used as a source of random numbers. Those random numbers could be considered to be generated by design.

But they're not truly random. Any algorithm that generates random numbers uses a non-random seed value.

arent there several algorithms to make random numbers or sequences?

i dont know man, even chaotic patterns have some sort of algorithm.. is anything really really random?

[chri'stina 190]

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

A well-controlled manufacturing process, in which special cause upsets are thoroughly engineered out of the process, generates random variation. That random variation can be used as a source of random numbers. Those random numbers could be considered to be generated by design.

But they're not truly random. Any algorithm that generates random numbers uses a non-random seed value.

arent there several algorithms to make random numbers or sequences?

i dont know man, even chaotic patterns have some sort of algorithm.. is anything really really random?

The algorithms I'm aware of use non-value seed values. So no, no algorithm is truly random IMHO.

[Jenn! 918]

A well-controlled manufacturing process, in which special cause upsets are thoroughly engineered out of the process, generates random variation. That random variation can be used as a source of random numbers. Those random numbers could be considered to be generated by design.

But they're not truly random. Any algorithm that generates random numbers uses a non-random seed value.

arent there several algorithms to make random numbers or sequences?

i dont know man, even chaotic patterns have some sort of algorithm.. is anything really really random?

The algorithms I'm aware of use non-value seed values. So no, no algorithm is truly random IMHO.

The way I understand it randomness cannot be created, but it can occur naturally, such as in genetic mutation or radioactivity.

I can't say I understand novutol's post above.

[mendeleev 69]

A well-controlled manufacturing process, in which special cause upsets are thoroughly engineered out of the process, generates random variation. That random variation can be used as a source of random numbers. Those random numbers could be considered to be generated by design.

But they're not truly random. Any algorithm that generates random numbers uses a non-random seed value.

A.J. -- You didn't understand. There is no seed. In the absence of special cause variation, it can be shown that the variation is random. One way to motivate the understanding is to point out the analogy between a manufacturing process that does not exhibit special cause variation and various natural processes that also are random. Observing a random process and the variation that process generates may be used as a source of random numbers.

One example of such a manufacturing process involves X-ray fluorescence measurements of a product produced in a well-controlled manufacturing environment. The resulting data are random about the average composition and, more precisely, conform to a convolution of a gaussian and a poisson distribution.

[pedroh 21]

cooool..

i like this topic

mhh but in radioactivity is not random, is probabilities of the wave functions -pedro geek mode, activate!-

[Jenn! 918]

cooool..

i like this topic

mhh but in radioactivity is not random, is probabilities of the wave functions -pedro geek mode, activate!-

radioactive decay is random

Just because there is a probability distribution associated with a process doesn't mean that it is not random.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Jenn!

[pedroh 21]

looking for schrodinger's lolcat

Edited July 31, 2008 by pedroh