I-864 question 23

[RealPi 0]

Hi all,

I'm trying to help my US wife fill in form I-864. We are both quite confused about question 23: "individual annual income".

First, let me point out the background. I am K-1, she is the US citizen. Her income definitely exceeds the poverty limit, so no foreign assets of mine or other contributions need to be brought into the equation except for her income. In other words, the income on question 23 is identical to the income on question 24.

OK, she is employed (not self) and has hold of the following evidence (as relates to I-864 specifically): Tax Returns for 2007/06/05 with associated W-2s, a stub for past 6 months, Employment Contract for 2008 which shows her income indirectly (i.e. minimum hours required to work plus wages per hour) and a photocopy of her valid unexpired US passport (always a good thing to add in order to prove US citizenship!)

Now, I do realize that "income" for question 23 means "gross income". However it does not tell us WHAT or WHEN. More specifically, here are a few possibilities for what to put as "individual annual income".

1) If we take the "current individual annual income" to mean the income in the past year up to end of June (we're in July), then it would approximately be what had been recorded on the stub from the past 6 months (gross) - say $A gross pay - plus "half" of the 2007 adjusted recorded gross income on IRS Form 1040EZ of, say, $B; giving us an overall total of $(A + (B / 2)).

2) Alternatively, we could reasonably agree to put as income the estimates $(2A) (twice the past 6 months stub value) or even $B (the 2007 value recorded). Or the value appearing in the W-2, which should be similar (don't have it in front of me now).

3) Since July she has received a pay rise for the next year, which will be a little reduced the year after but compared to the past three years (2007, 2006 and 2005) will stay consistently as considerably higher. More specifically, the aforementioned Employment Contract shows that she must work a minimum of X hours per year at $Y per hour. This means that she will receive at least ($X / 2) * $Y = $C, say, from July until end of December; giving us an overall total of $(A+C)

As one can easily imagine, C (the total gross salary from July 08 until end of Dec 08) is larger than B/2 (the total adjusted gross salary for the second half of 2007), giving us two significantly different estimates. In particular, the difference is over $52,000!

So my questions are:

a. which is the current annual year on which income is calculated? We're filing some time in July soon; so do we take as "year" the 6 past months and the second half of 2007 (i.e. choice 1) or do we take as "year" the past 6 months and the NEXT 6 months, since we can easily extrapolate the expected gross income for the period (i.e. choice 3)?

b. Am I actually calculating things correctly for estimating the income here? (Recall we only have her employment income to think about as a factor, nothing else to complicate things). I read somewhere on the site that one should include as income the one stated in W-2 as gross pay and only include income reported to the IRS, although the option of including extrapolation has also been voiced. How does that fit with what I suggested in 1) and 3) (I don't think 2) is correct)?

c. On a slightly different note: As regards the various documentation needed with I-485 and all other forms, I read that we must submit photocopies only. I am pretty certain for the I-864 documentation, the Income Tax returns, W-2s, pay stubs etc are NOT to be submitted; only PHOTOCOPIES of these. But, looking to other forms, like I-485 etc things are not as clear (at least to me!) ...

So e.g. do we submit an ACTUAL certified copy of our marriage license or do we submit a PHOTOCOPY of a certified copy of our marriage license? Do we submit the ACTUAL officially translated copy of my birth certificate together with the official copy given by the foreign Recorder of Deeds (which includes legal stamps actually stamped on the papers, apostilles, etc) or PHOTOCOPIES of the actual officially translated copy of my birth certificate? etc etc

These are my three questions (a, b and c). Sorry for the difficulty level! Hope some brave soul will be up to the task

Many thanks in advance!

Real(ly confused) Pi

[victor+natasha 0]

To be safe just put down her last year's income. Total gross income for 2007 as it appears on her 2007 tax returns.

[RealPi 0]

To be safe just put down her last year's income. Total gross income for 2007 as it appears on her 2007 tax returns.

Thanks for replying (to questions a. and b.). I guess this makes good sense; it's far smaller a number of course, approximately $39K I think, from the estimated annual income for 2008ff. but still well over poverty limits.

Thanks!

Real Pi

[payxibka 10,048]

To be safe just put down her last year's income. Total gross income for 2007 as it appears on her 2007 tax returns.

Thanks for replying (to questions a. and b.). I guess this makes good sense; it's far smaller a number of course, approximately $39K I think, from the estimated annual income for 2008ff. but still well over poverty limits.

Thanks!

Real Pi

You are thinking too hard... just annualize her expected 2008 income.... Even if you are a few K off since you mention her 2007 amount is well above the "line".

[sweetpiano 0]

Agree with Fwaguy, you're overanalyzing. Noting difficult here: current annual income means 2008 income, and you have the Employment Contract for 2008 to substantiate this.

[Jesti 0]

To be safe just put down her last year's income. Total gross income for 2007 as it appears on her 2007 tax returns.

I agree, to much paper work is better than not enough.

[LuckyDucky 0]

I put my expected annual income for 2008 for line 23 when I filed my I-864. In fact, now that I think about it, mine isn't quite correct because I received a small raise in February. The number I put is my "annual income" value on my paystub which takes my current payrate and assumes it's one year's worth of work. So I overestimated how much money I'll make in 2008 by a small amount.

However, if either 2007 or 2008 are well above the poverty line, then I wouldn't worry too much about it, anyway.

[RealPi 0]

You are thinking too hard... just annualize her expected 2008 income.... Even if you are a few K off since you mention her 2007 amount is well above the "line".

Thanks to all who braved an answer.

Fwaguy, you're right that I'm probably over-analyzing this and it's not too hard. However, I can see substantially different answers from people which shows that this is not as straightforward as it might seem. I am not sure how to "annualize her expected 2008 income" while the "few K off" are quite substantial in number. I am mainly worried that if I don't put the right value they might RFE even if we are above the threshold, simply because we will have put the wrong number there or something.

I should also mention that her salary does not get calculated from Jan to Jan but from Jul to Jul; the pay rise was normal and expected as she moves up the ladder, basically.

Two things I figured so far for sure: we're talking gross income here and "current annual" income means for the year 2008.

Are you basically saying that I should do option 3)?

Well, if that is the case, then that was my original personal choice. The pay stub of the past six months shows exactly how much she earned in the first six months of 2008; that's half the income sorted. Now, the new Employment Contract in effect from July 2008 onwards for the next year until June 2009 inclusive, shows that she must do a minimum of certain X hours for that year at a rate of Y dollars per hour. This means that she will have to earn at least (X/2) * Y dollars from July until end of December; here's the second half of the income sorted. Her total income will be the sum of the above two values; very simple. Is that what you mean by "annualizing"?

The other thing is that putting in the gross income for 2007 or doing options 1) or 2) gives us a value of not more than $34-39K. However, doing option 3) -- the only option that realistically looks at the expected income for 2008 and in fact underestimating it -- gives us a value of just over $100K which obviously looks better written down than the $35ishK value.

So I'd like to do option 3) above. My new question is: can I?

Thanks

Pi

[payxibka 10,048]

You are thinking too hard... just annualize her expected 2008 income.... Even if you are a few K off since you mention her 2007 amount is well above the "line".

Thanks to all who braved an answer.

Fwaguy, you're right that I'm probably over-analyzing this and it's not too hard. However, I can see substantially different answers from people which shows that this is not as straightforward as it might seem. I am not sure how to "annualize her expected 2008 income" while the "few K off" are quite substantial in number. I am mainly worried that if I don't put the right value they might RFE even if we are above the threshold, simply because we will have put the wrong number there or something.

I should also mention that her salary does not get calculated from Jan to Jan but from Jul to Jul; the pay rise was normal and expected as she moves up the ladder, basically.

Two things I figured so far for sure: we're talking gross income here and "current annual" income means for the year 2008.

Are you basically saying that I should do option 3)?

Well, if that is the case, then that was my original personal choice. The pay stub of the past six months shows exactly how much she earned in the first six months of 2008; that's half the income sorted. Now, the new Employment Contract in effect from July 2008 onwards for the next year until June 2009 inclusive, shows that she must do a minimum of certain X hours for that year at a rate of Y dollars per hour. This means that she will have to earn at least (X/2) * Y dollars from July until end of December; here's the second half of the income sorted. Her total income will be the sum of the above two values; very simple. Is that what you mean by "annualizing"?

The other thing is that putting in the gross income for 2007 or doing options 1) or 2) gives us a value of not more than $34-39K. However, doing option 3) -- the only option that realistically looks at the expected income for 2008 and in fact underestimating it -- gives us a value of just over $100K which obviously looks better written down than the $35ishK value.

So I'd like to do option 3) above. My new question is: can I?

Thanks

Pi

If you can demostrate how you calculated your response then put in what you think is correct and defendable by your math. The CO wil make his/her own judgement based on what they do as a SOP. If you supply all the evidence that they request. What additional items could they possibly request via RFE?

If you are above the "line" in 2007 actual income and 2008 expected income... there should be no problem.

I put in the box what I thought my current years earnings would be. I substantiated it with partial year pay stub and extended it to the end of the year. No issues for us. If it were me, I would stop worrying....

Edited July 10, 2008 by fwaguy

[RealPi 0]

If you can demostrate how you calculated your response then put in what you think is correct and defendable by your math. The CO wil make his/her own judgement based on what they do as a SOP. If you supply all the evidence that they request. What additional items could they possibly request via RFE?

If you are above the "line" in 2007 actual income and 2008 expected income... there should be no problem.

I put in the box what I thought my current years earnings would be. I substantiated it with partial year pay stub and extended it to the end of the year. No issues for us. If it were me, I would stop worrying....

Thanks fwaguy, you're right! Your response has been most helpful; thanks

Thanks again to all who helped out!

Pi