Crazy question for the MENA people

[sarahaziz 0]

ayiyiiiii wahrania....you are american, born in america right? Why don't you stick to being an expert for your country and your culture? Are you here to prove I am a liar or all that didn't really happen? What is that for? My cousin is next to me she's algerian with a fiance from algeria and shocked that American people actually travel to arabi countries and think they know everything from A-Z about my personal life and others. Why would you embaress yourself like this? Post all you want about any other country how it's runned but not Algeria. Muslim/Christian it's the same thing, just because I am christian it doesn't mean I'm loose and run around naked and drink beer. We are married we have that respect he can kiss my forehead I'm for him only he didn't kiss my lips in my respect. I wore western clothes because it's nothing. No legs no breast no arms were showing. Here in USA I wear long boots on jeans long sleeve shirts I cover myself up it's my self respect. Alot of the women in my family who moved to France they don't wear hijab and they are muslim, from Sahara also. Algiers not many girls cover up you even see girls driving and walking without hijab. Western clothing it's not prohibited. They sell it EVERYWHERE and there's so many lingerie shops everywhere!! I got married in Western clothing! The judge and imam didn't care they touched my head for blessing bc when I talk i am so respectful like older men are my father. If your hubby didn't kiss you or show affection you can't get assume it's haraam. My husband let me dress as I like bec he knows I don't disrespect my image.

This thread was asking all the women/men on the forum what would they feel like if they were the ones being petitioned and them being the beneficiary.

[~Jackie~ 30]

What was the question?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

ayiyiiiii wahrania....you are american, born in america right? Why don't you stick to being an expert for your country and your culture? Are you here to prove I am a liar or all that didn't really happen? What is that for? My cousin is next to me she's algerian with a fiance from algeria and shocked that American people actually travel to arabi countries and think they know everything from A-Z about my personal life and others. Why would you embaress yourself like this? Post all you want about any other country how it's runned but not Algeria. Muslim/Christian it's the same thing, just because I am christian it doesn't mean I'm loose and run around naked and drink beer. We are married we have that respect he can kiss my forehead I'm for him only he didn't kiss my lips in my respect. I wore western clothes because it's nothing. No legs no breast no arms were showing. Here in USA I wear long boots on jeans long sleeve shirts I cover myself up it's my self respect. Alot of the women in my family who moved to France they don't wear hijab and they are muslim, from Sahara also. Algiers not many girls cover up you even see girls driving and walking without hijab. Western clothing it's not prohibited. They sell it EVERYWHERE and there's so many lingerie shops everywhere!! I got married in Western clothing! The judge and imam didn't care they touched my head for blessing bc when I talk i am so respectful like older men are my father. If your hubby didn't kiss you or show affection you can't get assume it's haraam. My husband let me dress as I like bec he knows I don't disrespect my image.

This thread was asking all the women/men on the forum what would they feel like if they were the ones being petitioned and them being the beneficiary.

[/quote)

first

You never lived in an extremely religious area NOR did you live through the black years in Algiers where the religious police would walk up to people sitting on the beach with their arms around them and slit the woman's throats.

Second your family are SMAGRIA and I know you know what that word means... It means Algerians raised in the west especially France and it is NOT the nicest term to describe a woman. The reality is that the average middle class girl doesnt walk around in Algeria with western clothes.. maybe in Algiers or bigger cities... but not in Medea or outlying cities or middle class areas.. You are delusional if you think that its completely normal to be a converted christian algerian in algeria or that you think that open affection is the norm.. not not not not... Kabilya Bejaja where you are from but a big hell no in the rest of rural and semi rural algeria

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

ayiyiiiii wahrania....you are american, born in america right? Why don't you stick to being an expert for your country and your culture? Are you here to prove I am a liar or all that didn't really happen? What is that for? My cousin is next to me she's algerian with a fiance from algeria and shocked that American people actually travel to arabi countries and think they know everything from A-Z about my personal life and others. Why would you embaress yourself like this? Post all you want about any other country how it's runned but not Algeria. Muslim/Christian it's the same thing, just because I am christian it doesn't mean I'm loose and run around naked and drink beer. We are married we have that respect he can kiss my forehead I'm for him only he didn't kiss my lips in my respect. I wore western clothes because it's nothing. No legs no breast no arms were showing. Here in USA I wear long boots on jeans long sleeve shirts I cover myself up it's my self respect. Alot of the women in my family who moved to France they don't wear hijab and they are muslim, from Sahara also. Algiers not many girls cover up you even see girls driving and walking without hijab. Western clothing it's not prohibited. They sell it EVERYWHERE and there's so many lingerie shops everywhere!! I got married in Western clothing! The judge and imam didn't care they touched my head for blessing bc when I talk i am so respectful like older men are my father. If your hubby didn't kiss you or show affection you can't get assume it's haraam. My husband let me dress as I like bec he knows I don't disrespect my image.

This thread was asking all the women/men on the forum what would they feel like if they were the ones being petitioned and them being the beneficiary.

And dont represent conversion for an Algerian as the norm. I have never ever ever met an Algerian man that would accept an Algerian woman who was christian especially if it meant his child would not be raised muslim.. unless of course he doesnt plan on having kids with her.. then the marriage would make sense.. Tell me that an Algerian man will accept his wife to raise his children to be raised as christian and I have some waterfront property in Ghairdaia to sell you

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Ok u 2. I insist you stop this. It has been going on for months.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Ok u 2. I insist you stop this. It has been going on for months.

The first thing is that while she is Algerian she has implied that 'American people"need to stick to their own culture. Not realising that she herself ISNT STICKING TO ALGERIAN CULTURAL.LY The foundation of the Algerian republic was built on the shaheeds or Islamic martyrs for the Algerian state against the French occupiers. When Algeria won the Algerian war against the French, the tenets of the Algerian nation were built on the Islamic Algerian identity. She is a converted christian, while fine is NOT the cultural norm in most of Algeria. In fact , prostelitysing has ended up in gettting people thrown in jail as late as this year. She is saying that Algeria is NOT STRICT which is simply depending on WHERE you are in Algeria. She has mentioned before she shops in Bejaja which means she is from close to if not in the Kabilye region but I cannot be sure but I do know one thing. Algerians from France are called Smagri or Smagria which is a way of describing immigrant and in many ways not any closer to Algerian culture than we are.. in many ways MORE LIBERAL AND LOOSE. There is a heavy and unfortunate tradition of using smagri to simply get papers because they literally are Algerian in name and not in any other way. My problem with Sarah is that without provaction constantly tells me that things I witnessed in Western and rural and central Algeria did not happen and that the Algeria she experienced is the norm. To the contrary, wearing hijab is not always the norm but very common with NON KABILYE and NON ALGIERS people, especially during and after the islamic insurgency from 1988 to 2002 where literally many began to cover to shield themselves from reprisals from the GIA and GSPC who demanded strict allegiance to Islam. She lives in a part of Algeria where literally if she drives up to Tizi Ouzou, there are people there that do not even speak arabic and that bars are open during Ramadan. As a kabilye or living close to this area, yes there are some more liberal areas but they hardly represent the norm. In Oran , yes there are western dressing women but most of the women I saw in jeans were SMAGRI, or Algerians living in France who go home to visit. They hardly represent popular Algerian culture and they also have a really hard time getting married to Algerians for much more than papers. If you think that westerners get floated for papers... its very common for "smagri" to be used for papers. Think of the average muslim that you know. Ask yourself if they would be thrilled as an Algerian man to let their child be raised christian. Then ask yourself if you took lets say a Moroccan or Egyptian arabic woman, moved her to France and then she goes back on vacation. She may be accepted as part of them but then as she insists her child be raised christian because she has converted,,,,imagine where the head of the Algerian man is going. No where fast. Its my belief that as much as he may love her,,, which I think she is very pretty.... he is planning on his children being muslim whether he says that or not.. and they are no where near planning for children yet. When they do, I doubt they will be named JEWISH names (Algeria expelled every jewish person in the last 4o years leaving no working synagogues and has absolutely NO diplomatic ties with Israel) or he be real thrilled about his children being raised as christian.(she has started posts looking for good jewish names) Not gonna happen. My only beef with Sarah is that for some reason she thinks her Algerian identity is simply genetic. The Algerian identity is closely allied with Islam. The flag has islamic tenets. She also did not live there during the islamic insurgency which is only in the last 4 years calming down( not really think Al Qaeda blowing up the United Nations building on December 11 2008.) Her experiences are no where near the norm for ordinary non Algiers or kabilye living Algerian women who despite inroads are STILL expected to do all the cooking, tow a religious line of raising their children muslim.. not go out after dark, and ESPECIALLY after marriage tow a different load than being allowed to run around. I get irritated because she implies that as an American I could not know what Algeria or Algerians are like when she herself is not acting like the wife of Algerian muslim... posting on here that she wants to give her baby a Jewish name which in itself will not lend the child to having any respect or cohesion with fellow Algerians as it gets older or that somehow that all the things she went through are the norm. Westerners often follow islam MORE than some of the people from the countries who are often CULTURALLY religious NOT CONVICTED by spirit and thats where the difference lies. As much as its painful to say, being Algerian by birth with no respect or adherance to the religion of the nation with no conviction to raise an Algerian child muslim makes it really no different for him than marrying someone French or Swiss etc. I dont think she gets that.... But then again.. having a baby there means a promise at birth , the aquiqah, the slaughter of sheep, 2 for a boy and 1 for a girl.. and a convenant with Allah to raise this child as a muslim. I cant see how she will get around that... but then again if kids are not even in the picture anyway, I can see how it can be avoided.

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

Ok u 2. I insist you stop this. It has been going on for months.

can't we just schedule a wrestling match in chocolate or jello to solve this?

[sara535 15]

Wahrania seriously you need to chill out about this. We all get that you know a lot about algerian culture but you push it too far every time. hell I've lived in america all my life but I still dont know that I am an 'expert' on american culture, there are so many aspects and individuals that comprise the whole. when you start ranting like this you just undermine any of your own credibility and intelligence.

think about it like this:

lets say I had an algerian come visit me for a month in my central california town and we spent the month hanging out, maybe travelling around the state to LA, SF, Napa, etc. lets say another algerian went to stay with my cousins in southern arkansas for a month in their town of 1500 people and they spent a month huntin' and fishin' and callin' the hogs. I am 100% certain they would have VASTLY different experiences here, and when they compared anecdotes it would pretty much be like they had been on different planets, not the same country ....

Can you not accept that maybe there are others out there who have different knowledge/experience of algeria than you do??

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Wahrania seriously you need to chill out about this. We all get that you know a lot about algerian culture but you push it too far every time. hell I've lived in america all my life but I still dont know that I am an 'expert' on american culture, there are so many aspects and individuals that comprise the whole. when you start ranting like this you just undermine any of your own credibility and intelligence.

think about it like this:

lets say I had an algerian come visit me for a month in my central california town and we spent the month hanging out, maybe travelling around the state to LA, SF, Napa, etc. lets say another algerian went to stay with my cousins in southern arkansas for a month in their town of 1500 people and they spent a month huntin' and fishin' and callin' the hogs. I am 100% certain they would have VASTLY different experiences here, and when they compared anecdotes it would pretty much be like they had been on different planets, not the same country ....

Can you not accept that maybe there are others out there who have different knowledge/experience of algeria than you do??

I do Sara.. the problem that I have with Sara...if you look at the original posting is that she said Algeria was not as strict as I said. Its not as strict for certain levels of society and certain areas and I am NOT certainly an expert in cultural but I do have eyes.

When a girl is NOT a virgin or has slept with someone its almost impossible to get married unless she reinvents herself and moves completely away from where she lives.

Things that Algerians will accept in Americans and French like having multiple lovers and boyfriends etc will certainly NOT be tolerated in an arab girl. There is a word for girls that sleep with men before marriage in Algeria and dress like girls do when they go out over here.. They are called merioulas( brazen women) and work at cabarets at night sleeping with men for money in large cities like Oran and Algiers.

Whats acceptable to date is not necessarily acceptable to marry. Then the kids issue comes into it. To deny the fact that a child being raised muslim is not important is just to delude yourself. Sarah while a converted christians IS NOT THE NORM nor is the idea of naming her child a jewish name as she has stated. The only part of Algeira that I could conceivabley see dressing anyway you want and doing anything y ou want is Kabilya Algeria where in fact they dont speak arabic even nor do they essentially get along with the rest of Algeria. Terrorists dont mess with the kabilyes but they certainly hang out up there due to the fact that the Algerian government is alot less likely to do much about them when the native peoples up there dont agree with even being part of Algeria much less speaking their language.

She has said several times that as an American I can only comment on my culture not hers. The reality is she knows less about Algerian culture and history than many Americans I know, never having lived there,not being raised muslim and not understanding the implications of raising a child with Algerian culture and tradition which includes ISLAM a muslim name, an Algerian identity and YES in many parts of Algeria including the SAHARA as she mentioned , hijab. In the Sahara they practice even a more strict version of Islam called Ibadi Islam and they cover from head to toe in white with one eye poking out ( Ghairdaia, Bounoura,etc) She is apparently a part of the village that she lives in but has not been exposed to some of the stricter elements of Islam around Algeria complete with Chlef, Medea and many parts of central and western Algeria. Oran gives the appearance of being open but if you really look after 6 pm you will not see a single woman out after dark unless she is with a male companion or family. If you see women dressed in western clothing, travelling alone or walking after dark you can pretty much assume they are prostitiutes.. Which is rampant in Algeria right now. The cultures are NOT the same. Algeria for the most part while it does have some pockets of modernity such as Algiers, Kabilya and Constantine is under the threat of Islamiists on a daily basis and its just delusiuonal to even compare lets say MOROCCO with Algeria. Algeria has much more natural resources such as mining and gas than Morocco does.. .Morocco thrives on tourism , even marketing Israel and maintaining relations with all of Europe easily. The situation in Algeria is much more difficult to explain. For example, many Algerians who live in France are known as HARKIS or traitors to Algeria, having left Algeria after having helped the French kill Algerian people during the Algerian revolution. Many Algerians in France do not share the same culture as Algerians in Algeria because they are more "french " than Algerians due to living there. I can see with my eyes a woman getting smacked over the head by her boyfriend, the horrible life of women who made no other bad choice other than sleeping with someone before marriage be relagated to a life of prostititution at the age of 18 and no way out and to tell me that I cannot see stark reality is just arrogant. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that Algerian women are judged at a much harsher yardstick than western women are . The stuff that our husbands accept in us would not way in hell be accepted in an Algerian girl. Period

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Wahrania seriously you need to chill out about this. We all get that you know a lot about algerian culture but you push it too far every time. hell I've lived in america all my life but I still dont know that I am an 'expert' on american culture, there are so many aspects and individuals that comprise the whole. when you start ranting like this you just undermine any of your own credibility and intelligence.

think about it like this:

lets say I had an algerian come visit me for a month in my central california town and we spent the month hanging out, maybe travelling around the state to LA, SF, Napa, etc. lets say another algerian went to stay with my cousins in southern arkansas for a month in their town of 1500 people and they spent a month huntin' and fishin' and callin' the hogs. I am 100% certain they would have VASTLY different experiences here, and when they compared anecdotes it would pretty much be like they had been on different planets, not the same country ....

Can you not accept that maybe there are others out there who have different knowledge/experience of algeria than you do??

Also Sara535, it would be impossible to convey credibility or intelligence through a visa forum. Living in a major city such as Algiers in a western environment would not prepare you for lets say a CHLEF or MEDEA...places even the army doesnt want to venture into. There are reasons that the American Embassy even has restrictions for its own staff not to enter certain parts of algiers. I had a different experience in Algeria due to the fact that everyone around me lost members of their family to terror from brothers disappearing and I simply was in many more rural areas than the average person traveling there.. I am not here to be credible. I just call it like I see it.

Being American doesnt make me less able to call a spade a spade and I resent the implication by Sara that it makes me less able to interpret my experiences..

When you meet a girl thrown out of a window by her brother for sleeping with a shop keeper and she is paralysed from the waist down, you kind of start realising that perhaps standards of behavior are a little stricter.. Thats the ways things go

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

[doodlebugg 10]

this one's better than that other thread. more stuff to read.

[~Jackie~ 30]

just silly if ya ask me.....

see, I have a different view of Jordan (from only seeing a village) than the view of say...JP or Julianna....I saw a strict Muslim side of jordan and others have seen the liberal side of Amman....Doesn't mean we both dont know and love Jordan.

Same as America...if someone had only seen ..say....Idaho...and someone else.... just Cali....they would have a different opinion.

I say....sarahaziz and wahrania....AGREE TO DISAGREE. (and move on from this cuz really, I/we dont give a flying rats azz)

Jackie

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

will the real algerian please stand up, please stand up.......

[sara535 15]

just silly if ya ask me.....

see, I have a different view of Jordan (from only seeing a village) than the view of say...JP or Julianna....I saw a strict Muslim side of jordan and others have seen the liberal side of Amman....Doesn't mean we both dont know and love Jordan.

Same as America...if someone had only seen ..say....Idaho...and someone else.... just Cali....they would have a different opinion.

I say....sarahaziz and wahrania....AGREE TO DISAGREE. (and move on from this cuz really, I/we dont give a flying rats azz)

Jackie

and then, there's that.