Muta marriage in Egypt

[~Jackie~ 30]

What if that man is sterile? Does that mean he can never marry? What a crock of ####### this discussion has become. Not everyone wants, needs or can afford children. They are messy, noisey and expensive anyway...(joke,,lighten up, ok?)

Mohd....I know VERY well how the family will tell the younger man to divorce his older wife and marry a younger one to have his children. Believe, I know. Been there done that. That just shows the ignorance of him and his family. I hope not all feel that way. Or this MENA group could very well become a bunch of single women in a few years after the 10 year greencards roll in.

Jackie

[aisha kandisha 0]

So what about countries where the state/govt itself routinely fails to enforce the contract, particularly the rights of women, as is the case in Egypt.

The state/govt of Egypt will, of course, enforce a legal and binding contract. The problem is these contracts are not legal and binding because, in order to be legal in Egypt, the marriage has to be registered with the government. Legal marriages - anywhere - include rights and responsibilities. No court will protect a right or enforce a responsibility that is not legally there to begin with, no matter where we are on the planet. Women who are legally married in Egypt have rights. It is the women who are not legally married who don't.

Women in Egypt may have rights on paper, but the enforcement of such rights is piss poor. Read the human rights reports.

Again, my point is, if a contract has to be enforceable for it to be truly Islamic, can an Islamic marriage exist in a place where everyone knows the chances of the contract being enforced are slim.

[Nasturtium 500]

then you write the contract and the wife can put the condition she want in it then to make it known for all poeple by party or any way

Whoa! No way you and write into a contract whatever you want. There are specific rules to wrtting an Islamic contract in Egypt and all over the Muslim world. The provisions in the contract MUST conform to the accepted law of the state and the ulema. For example, some jurisdictions will not allow a first wife to add a condition disallowing her husband to have plural wives. That is not acceptable under fiqh laws that govern some regions. Other provisions, such as raising children as Christians or Jews would be rejected. You cannot just make up conditions and put them into a nikah and have it be valid. If that is what happened, your lawyer failed you (but then, in paper marriages, this is common), and your nikah may not be valid in Egypt or the US.

I didn't have a marriage in a mosque or with an Imam, but we did follow the legal rules of Jordan and get married in the court. They had a set contract there which consisted of 4 pages (wife's copy, husband's copy, court copy, and some kind of government copy) and basically was fill-in-the-blank. The magistrate filled in the date, the names, the religions, the father's and mother's names, then it went on to the stated mahr and a place to state any conditions, and recorded verbal agreement and then at the bottom it had 5 signatures-- the people getting married, 2 witnesses, and the magistrate. This is partially what you're talking about, right? We just could not draft our own contract. it had to be one of their legal contracts. In the smaller villages where he lives he and others have told me often the Imam will come to the house rather than the party go to the court, although when they got "engaged" in the first place, they took this contract and filled it out and just held on to it, and the Imam comes to the house to add the final authority in place of the magistrate in that kind of condition.... it's still the SAME contract form.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

i think u forget the questions so here it is again

answer me virtual wife why u married boy in your grandson age for what i know it is personal stuff but u asked me be4 why i married her

do you think he will keep with you while you are older than his mom and cant give him kids.

you sir need to get over the age thing as if you take a poll most women are older than the guys and alot do not want kids, you are drawing straws here

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So what about countries where the state/govt itself routinely fails to enforce the contract, particularly the rights of women, as is the case in Egypt.

The state/govt of Egypt will, of course, enforce a legal and binding contract. The problem is these contracts are not legal and binding because, in order to be legal in Egypt, the marriage has to be registered with the government. Legal marriages - anywhere - include rights and responsibilities. No court will protect a right or enforce a responsibility that is not legally there to begin with, no matter where we are on the planet. Women who are legally married in Egypt have rights. It is the women who are not legally married who don't.

Women in Egypt may have rights on paper, but the enforcement of such rights is piss poor. Read the human rights reports.

Again, my point is, if a contract has to be enforceable for it to be truly Islamic, can an Islamic marriage exist in a place where everyone knows the chances of the contract being enforced are slim.

Even if the chances are slim, in a fake marriage, you've got no chance. In addition, the stigma and obstacles of children out of wedlock are enormous.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Virtual wife

[aisha kandisha 0]

So what about countries where the state/govt itself routinely fails to enforce the contract, particularly the rights of women, as is the case in Egypt.

The state/govt of Egypt will, of course, enforce a legal and binding contract. The problem is these contracts are not legal and binding because, in order to be legal in Egypt, the marriage has to be registered with the government. Legal marriages - anywhere - include rights and responsibilities. No court will protect a right or enforce a responsibility that is not legally there to begin with, no matter where we are on the planet. Women who are legally married in Egypt have rights. It is the women who are not legally married who don't.

Women in Egypt may have rights on paper, but the enforcement of such rights is piss poor. Read the human rights reports.

Again, my point is, if a contract has to be enforceable for it to be truly Islamic, can an Islamic marriage exist in a place where everyone knows the chances of the contract being enforced are slim.

Even if the chances are slim, in a fake marriage, you've got no chance.

But is it Islamic if it is known the woman's rights will more than likely never be enforced?

[mohamed N melinda 0]

i think u forget the questions so here it is again

answer me virtual wife why u married boy in your grandson age for what i know it is personal stuff but u asked me be4 why i married her

do you think he will keep with you while you are older than his mom and cant give him kids.

you sir need to get over the age thing as if you take a poll most women are older than the guys and alot do not want kids, you are drawing straws here

hey i just wanted her view of opinion in that nothing else and yes some are older than thier men but the age gap is over 25

when woman feel first marriage of her as non muslim was haram

and the recent marraige id doubt in ohhhhhhh

Edited April 20, 2008 by mohamed N melinda

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I didn't have a marriage in a mosque or with an Imam, but we did follow the legal rules of Jordan and get married in the court. They had a set contract there which consisted of 4 pages (wife's copy, husband's copy, court copy, and some kind of government copy) and basically was fill-in-the-blank. The magistrate filled in the date, the names, the religions, the father's and mother's names, then it went on to the stated mahr and a place to state any conditions, and recorded verbal agreement and then at the bottom it had 5 signatures-- the people getting married, 2 witnesses, and the magistrate. This is partially what you're talking about, right? We just could not draft our own contract. it had to be one of their legal contracts. In the smaller villages where he lives he and others have told me often the Imam will come to the house rather than the party go to the court, although when they got "engaged" in the first place, they took this contract and filled it out and just held on to it, and the Imam comes to the house to add the final authority in place of the magistrate in that kind of condition.... it's still the SAME contract form.

It's not the same contract all over. It depends on the law where you get married; under which controlling madhab and or trend. For example, in Indonesia, in some states, a man must have his first wife's consent to marry another woman. So, men go to another region to marry again where they don't need their wife's permission.

But, yes, you cannot just draw up a contract and put anything in it. That in and of itself is a substantial admission that the paper is worthless.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

do you know english word OBNIXIOUS JERK not everyone wants or needs kids

and yes some are over 25 years many matter in fact

now im sure you feel this is wrong to (right) i hope your attitude gets an adjustment before you have to deal with americans here

Edited April 20, 2008 by brnidokiegurl

[mohamed N melinda 0]

So what about countries where the state/govt itself routinely fails to enforce the contract, particularly the rights of women, as is the case in Egypt.

The state/govt of Egypt will, of course, enforce a legal and binding contract. The problem is these contracts are not legal and binding because, in order to be legal in Egypt, the marriage has to be registered with the government. Legal marriages - anywhere - include rights and responsibilities. No court will protect a right or enforce a responsibility that is not legally there to begin with, no matter where we are on the planet. Women who are legally married in Egypt have rights. It is the women who are not legally married who don't.

Women in Egypt may have rights on paper, but the enforcement of such rights is piss poor. Read the human rights reports.

Again, my point is, if a contract has to be enforceable for it to be truly Islamic, can an Islamic marriage exist in a place where everyone knows the chances of the contract being enforced are slim.

Even if the chances are slim, in a fake marriage, you've got no chance.

But is it Islamic if it is known the woman's rights will more than likely never be enforced?

she wont state that so dont waste your time with her cause if she did she will prove all her argument was rubbish and was for sick personal desire for attackking

[Sofiyya 1,687]

But is it Islamic if it is known the woman's rights will more than likely never be enforced?

No, sis. That's the difference between fiqh - man's law, and sharia - God's law. People have developed a cult of scholar worship that is taking the morality out of Islamic jurisprudence.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Virtual wife

[mohamed N melinda 0]

But is it Islamic if it is known the woman's rights will more than likely never be enforced?

No, sis. That's the difference between fiqh - man's law, and sharia - God's law. People have developed a cult of scholar worship that is taking the morality out of Islamic jurisprudence.

just to know she is ignorant islamically she deny even fiqih

so if we go by sharia any one will steal should cut his hands now. but how we say if the man steal to eat or giverment dont provide him even foods

very very narrow mind

[morocco4ever 63]

So lets say an Egyptian woman and man go to the lawyer, draw up the papers and sign. The lawyer, on the way to the courts has a horrible accident and dies. What is the status of this marriage? Will they leave it as is or will they have another lawyer finish the registration?

[brnidokiegurl 0]

i just talk to ahmed and even in his simple way and the way i cant explain well here is what he say of this paper marriage

and when they throw paper like never been married

his meaning i guess to say if you decide to throw this paper away its like never been married, i think maybe us girls should ask all our guys since not many men come on here

[sarahaziz 0]

i think u forget the questions so here it is again

answer me virtual wife why u married boy in your grandson age for what i know it is personal stuff but u asked me be4 why i married her

do you think he will keep with you while you are older than his mom and cant give him kids.

you sir need to get over the age thing as if you take a poll most women are older than the guys and alot do not want kids, you are drawing straws here

hey i just wanted her view of opinion in that nothing else and yes some are older than thier men but the age gap is over 25

when woman feel first marriage of her as non muslim was haram

and the recent marraige id doubt in ohhhhhhh

Mohammad come on you know what an Arabic woman looks like, especially the older ones who move to western countries. Beautiful when young and as aging goes on - drop dead gorgeous. They take damn good care of their looks. My mother still looks 30 in her 50's. All my aunts look real young and Arab men don't seem to age either. Your family wouldn't approve of insulting a muslim/arab sister like that. Don't forget your respect and roots man. B)