How do you feel about Legalization of Illegals in US?

[Caladan 19]

There is a way to immigrate that you have not included. That is the greencard lottery. Winning the greencard lottery is about as likely as winning the state lottery, but people win it every year.

Unless, of course, you're a citizen of Mexico, China, Jamaica, Russia, Canada, the UK, etc....

Right. The DV lottery is for people whose countries are underrepresented, and it's a long shot.

It wouldn't work well as an incentive in any case. Why would you go home for a chance to be a legal permanent resident when being a legal permanent resident isn't what you want?

People are coming here to work because whatever they make here is worth ten times as much as it would be back home. Absent something that changes that economic calculus, like enforcement of employers, any other measure is just another hurdle that is worth it to jump in order to make money.

[HAL 9000 96]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread

and

lots of good-for-nothing racism.

Again, allow me to repeat myself (and a few others):

being that deporting people costs $$$

why not simply have a new Visa type for manual and "unskilled" labour?

And even allow people already here working to get one.

Employers could be the ones to distribute this....

HA

what am I saying?!!

They are the ones profiting!

They are the ones that do not want to pay whole/fair wages and other benefits that are required by workers' rights associations, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope this will probably not work.

Government simply needs to enact a federal law that states:

employers hiring undocumented workers will be fined and/or jailed and business licenses torn up.

That's it that's all.

pretty much sums up what i've been saying all along. increase the fines to draconian levels (say $50k per employee) and apply this to any business or individual (like homeowners) and you'll see an exodus outta here.

as for how to send them all home? similar to the way they got here - self deportation this time instead of self importation.

eta: trusting a business to apply any type of worker visa is imo like having a fox guard the henhouse.

And we can add take those draconian penalties to help pay for positive programs to circumvent the need for illegals to migrate north when there are no available visas for them. Never mind that these programs would cost far less on a yearly basis than the weekly costs we currently undertake to create enemies in other regions of the planet.

Hahaha! So true so true.

Oh but we are stirring other demons here aren't we?

I guess some folks just have an innate need for the presence of some kind of enemy- whether real or just perceived. Some others have learned and have taken it upon themselves to use the money we give them out of our paychecks to guarantee that our kids will have someone to pick on when they grow up.

There is a way to immigrate that you have not included. That is the greencard lottery. Winning the greencard lottery is about as likely as winning the state lottery, but people win it every year.

Unless, of course, you're a citizen of Mexico, China, Jamaica, Russia, Canada, the UK, etc....

Right. The DV lottery is for people whose countries are underrepresented, and it's a long shot.

It wouldn't work well as an incentive in any case. Why would you go home for a chance to be a legal permanent resident when being a legal permanent resident isn't what you want?

People are coming here to work because whatever they make here is worth ten times as much as it would be back home. Absent something that changes that economic calculus, like enforcement of employers, any other measure is just another hurdle that is worth it to jump in order to make money.

Yeah it sweetens the prize I guess. But sooo many insist on punitive measures as a solution now! Never mind treating the real problem which kills the problem at the root.

[Ban Hammer 14,291]

And we can add take those draconian penalties to help pay for positive programs to circumvent the need for illegals to migrate north when there are no available visas for them. Never mind that these programs would cost far less on a yearly basis than the weekly costs we currently undertake to create enemies in other regions of the planet.

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Edited March 17, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[HAL 9000 96]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread

and

lots of good-for-nothing racism.

Again, allow me to repeat myself (and a few others):

being that deporting people costs $$$

why not simply have a new Visa type for manual and "unskilled" labour?

And even allow people already here working to get one.

Employers could be the ones to distribute this....

HA

what am I saying?!!

They are the ones profiting!

They are the ones that do not want to pay whole/fair wages and other benefits that are required by workers' rights associations, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope this will probably not work.

Government simply needs to enact a federal law that states:

employers hiring undocumented workers will be fined and/or jailed and business licenses torn up.

That's it that's all.

pretty much sums up what i've been saying all along. increase the fines to draconian levels (say $50k per employee) and apply this to any business or individual (like homeowners) and you'll see an exodus outta here.

as for how to send them all home? similar to the way they got here - self deportation this time instead of self importation.

eta: trusting a business to apply any type of worker visa is imo like having a fox guard the henhouse.

And we can add take those draconian penalties to help pay for positive programs to circumvent the need for illegals to migrate north when there are no available visas for them. Never mind that these programs would cost far less on a yearly basis than the weekly costs we currently undertake to create enemies in other regions of the planet.

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

Edited March 17, 2008 by maviwaro

[Ban Hammer 14,291]

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

i'm failing to see how we can mold a foreign economy by importing more of the inhabitants. while haiti is another one of those corrupt backwater nations, there is only so much any nation can do nor do i believe it is our responsibility.

intervene overseas, the hallmark of the new progessive movement.

[HAL 9000 96]

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

i'm failing to see how we can mold a foreign economy by importing more of the inhabitants. while haiti is another one of those corrupt backwater nations, there is only so much any nation can do nor do i believe it is our responsibility.

intervene overseas, the hallmark of the new progessive movement.

Why would it be a new hallmark? Conservative governments have been doing it for decades. How many US military occupations of Haiti have occurred in the last 100 years?

The difference is that instead of skewing the equation towards taking more than putting back, the equality in the equation would be more balanced.

Of course you're failing to see the molding of the foreign economies by importing more inhabitants. That's not what is being argued here... the logic and reality is more causative and effectuated than that, not proposed as a solution..

[Nessa 23]

Last time I was suspended, he wrote

"When you joined VisaJourney, you agreed to be bound by the TOS."

which is a lie, because I never agreed to the TOS in their current form when

I joined VJ back in 2003.

Just because they've changed the TOS a bunch of times since then, doesn't mean

I "agreed to be bound" by them.

Maybe Captain should ask the membersa once a year to agree again with the TOS if they wish to continue having their accounts.

[Ban Hammer 14,291]

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

i'm failing to see how we can mold a foreign economy by importing more of the inhabitants. while haiti is another one of those corrupt backwater nations, there is only so much any nation can do nor do i believe it is our responsibility.

intervene overseas, the hallmark of the new progessive movement.

Why would it be a new hallmark? Conservative governments have been doing it for decades. How many US military occupations of Haiti have occurred in the last 100 years?

more history lessons about us evil americans eh?

The difference is that instead of skewing the equation towards taking more than putting back, the equality in the equation would be more balanced.

Of course you're failing to see the molding of the foreign economies by importing more inhabitants. That's not what is being argued here... the logic and reality is more causative and effectuated than that, not proposed as a solution..

i still don't care.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Sorry, I just need a solution to reduce the amount of illegals crossing Mexico; Since most came from there. No racism involved.

[Ban Hammer 14,291]

Sorry, I just need a solution to reduce the amount of illegals crossing Mexico; Since most came from there. No racism involved.

mines.

link

Edited March 17, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[HAL 9000 96]

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

i'm failing to see how we can mold a foreign economy by importing more of the inhabitants. while haiti is another one of those corrupt backwater nations, there is only so much any nation can do nor do i believe it is our responsibility.

intervene overseas, the hallmark of the new progessive movement.

Why would it be a new hallmark? Conservative governments have been doing it for decades. How many US military occupations of Haiti have occurred in the last 100 years?

more history lessons about us evil americans eh?

The difference is that instead of skewing the equation towards taking more than putting back, the equality in the equation would be more balanced.

Of course you're failing to see the molding of the foreign economies by importing more inhabitants. That's not what is being argued here... the logic and reality is more causative and effectuated than that, not proposed as a solution..

i still don't care.

You said evil and not caring in consecutive replies... no soup for you! Maybe if that's the case then why have an opinion? Or an interest in discussing, for that matter.

Seriously... if you don't care then you shouldn't care that there are illegals, being the causative issue in part to blame for the causation of the symptom that is the act of coming here illegally. And whether or not you call us evil won't do anything to change reality as an attempt to continue evading any solutions. But I think you do care... since you say you are opposed to it... then maybe you should be interested in preventing the problem.

Edited March 17, 2008 by maviwaro

[Ban Hammer 14,291]

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

i'm failing to see how we can mold a foreign economy by importing more of the inhabitants. while haiti is another one of those corrupt backwater nations, there is only so much any nation can do nor do i believe it is our responsibility.

intervene overseas, the hallmark of the new progessive movement.

Why would it be a new hallmark? Conservative governments have been doing it for decades. How many US military occupations of Haiti have occurred in the last 100 years?

more history lessons about us evil americans eh?

The difference is that instead of skewing the equation towards taking more than putting back, the equality in the equation would be more balanced.

Of course you're failing to see the molding of the foreign economies by importing more inhabitants. That's not what is being argued here... the logic and reality is more causative and effectuated than that, not proposed as a solution..

i still don't care.

You said evil and not caring in consecutive replies... no soup for you! Maybe if that's the case then why have an opinion? Or an interest in discussing, for that matter.

Seriously... if you don't care then you shouldn't care that there are illegals, being the issue in part to blame for the causation. And whether or not you call us evil won't do anything to change reality as an attempt to continue evading any solutions.

the i don't care is in regard to haiti, which you brought up.

[HAL 9000 96]

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

i'm failing to see how we can mold a foreign economy by importing more of the inhabitants. while haiti is another one of those corrupt backwater nations, there is only so much any nation can do nor do i believe it is our responsibility.

intervene overseas, the hallmark of the new progessive movement.

Why would it be a new hallmark? Conservative governments have been doing it for decades. How many US military occupations of Haiti have occurred in the last 100 years?

more history lessons about us evil americans eh?

The difference is that instead of skewing the equation towards taking more than putting back, the equality in the equation would be more balanced.

Of course you're failing to see the molding of the foreign economies by importing more inhabitants. That's not what is being argued here... the logic and reality is more causative and effectuated than that, not proposed as a solution..

i still don't care.

You said evil and not caring in consecutive replies... no soup for you! Maybe if that's the case then why have an opinion? Or an interest in discussing, for that matter.

Seriously... if you don't care then you shouldn't care that there are illegals, being the issue in part to blame for the causation. And whether or not you call us evil won't do anything to change reality as an attempt to continue evading any solutions.

the i don't care is in regard to haiti, which you brought up.

Haitians don't qualify for refugee status. But you don't care. This is called an example to color your initial response in post #183.

[almaty 19]

[Ban Hammer 14,291]

if there is a real need then they can try for asylum

Tell that to the Haitians. Or that part in red above.

Coincidentially the uncle I once told you about will be in Havana over the summer processing those applications.

I was thinking more of why they have to come up... and before you decry that its not our job to solve the world's problems (or that its not our fault as I've also read repeatedly) as it appears to be a conservative reply these and most days, I say that maybe we need to think about what our interests do to mold foreign economies, in a way, into feeders of the immigrant problem in the first place.

Its not about being of any particular political ideology but rather of being preemptive when it comes to resolving a problem that will never go away if we continue to drink others' wine while not planting any grapes.

i'm failing to see how we can mold a foreign economy by importing more of the inhabitants. while haiti is another one of those corrupt backwater nations, there is only so much any nation can do nor do i believe it is our responsibility.

intervene overseas, the hallmark of the new progessive movement.

Why would it be a new hallmark? Conservative governments have been doing it for decades. How many US military occupations of Haiti have occurred in the last 100 years?

more history lessons about us evil americans eh?

The difference is that instead of skewing the equation towards taking more than putting back, the equality in the equation would be more balanced.

Of course you're failing to see the molding of the foreign economies by importing more inhabitants. That's not what is being argued here... the logic and reality is more causative and effectuated than that, not proposed as a solution..

i still don't care.

You said evil and not caring in consecutive replies... no soup for you! Maybe if that's the case then why have an opinion? Or an interest in discussing, for that matter.

Seriously... if you don't care then you shouldn't care that there are illegals, being the issue in part to blame for the causation. And whether or not you call us evil won't do anything to change reality as an attempt to continue evading any solutions.

the i don't care is in regard to haiti, which you brought up.

Haitians don't qualify for refugee status. But you don't care. This is called an example to color your initial response in post #183.

and i still don't care. go to home depot, buy some lumber. build a bridge and get over it.