How do you feel about Legalization of Illegals in US?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Sofargone, you win:

[mawilson 2,133]

And we all are guests on this forum and can be banned/deleted at anytime for any reason. I dont recall many being banned, some are more or less kept around for forum entertainment. Not hard to open another account anyways.

Guess what, moderators can suddenly become guests too, if they abuse their moderating privileges.

[Sofargone 2]

Sofargone, you win:

Don't choke on it.

Sofargone

And we all are guests on this forum and can be banned/deleted at anytime for any reason. I dont recall many being banned, some are more or less kept around for forum entertainment. Not hard to open another account anyways.

Guess what, moderators can suddenly become guests too, if they abuse their moderating privileges.

Agreed.

Sofargone

[GabiandVi 34]

As much as I despise illegal immigration, I think a lot of this could be solved (or at least, better handled) if the current immigration system were reworked. I don't mean the U.S. starts allowing in anyone and everyone, but perhaps the criteria should be reviewed and changed some.

As it stands right now, there are only three ways to legally immigrate into the United States:

1. Work

2. Family

3. Refugee

Since the third option is pretty damn rare, we can exclude that one from most cases immediately. Work Visas are also very tough to come by, unless you happen to be a "professional" (i.e. physician, attorney, professor, or anyone with a higher degree) or able to perform some job "that no other American can." In most situations, Work Visas won't be granted, since it's a lot of extra time and money on the part of the employer and if you're not some sort of professional, celebrity or sports star, the U.S. really doesn't care about you. Finally, the Family Visa is a good one (I think it's safe to say most of us have chosen this path), but it costs lots of money, time apart from your spouse and/or children and above all, it requires that you actually have family to sponsor you!

If a foreigner doesn't meet any of the above requirements, what are they to do? Simply shrug their shoulders and give up any hope of living in the United States? In theory, that's their only legal option. In practice, however, many foreigners who're faced with this dilemma decide to "jump the border" and assuming they make it across, remain as illegal aliens.

I don't think anyone who's here illegally should be handed a green card and made into a permanent resident or worse yet, a citizen. Doing any of that makes the entire legal process worthless. Why go through the time and money of legal immigration? Worse yet, why should spouses remain apart and venture through Customs at odd intervals (like the law dictates) if for abiding by said law, all we law-abiders get is hassle, while those who consistantly break it coast through?

I think this might all be fixed if the U.S. could be a little more "open-minded" with the Work Visa. If this country made it easier for people to come here and work legally, there would be less illegal immigration overall. It would still happen, of course, but it would decline. Best of all, these people could then be taxed effectively and feelings of animosity towards "most" illegals would probably decrease. If foreigners can come here to work legally, other avenues open up for them too, such as the Family Visa. So this is a benefical idea all-around.

If something along these lines isn't implemented soon, the entire point behind legal immigration will most likely cease to exist within the next decade or so. It just won't be worth the aggravation when the same results can be achieved for far less money and without being apart from your loved ones.

There is a way to immigrate that you have not included. That is the greencard lottery. Winning the greencard lottery is about as likely as winning the state lottery, but people win it every year. The number of greencards awarded through the lottery is determined each year partly on the numbers of people the US needs to fill jobs that do not require special skills. At this point most of those jobs are filled by illegal aliens. If there were no illegal aliens, the US would need a lot more people to fill those jobs. The number of greencards awarded in the lottery would increase significantly. I know it isn't as simple as deporting all the current illegal workers and awarding millions of greencards in the lottery, but those are the basics.

If the US were to grant a sort of partial amnesty in which current illegals were informed that if they returned to their home countries and got in line with everyone else to apply for the greencard lottery, their illegal stays in the US would be overlooked and they would have as much of a chance to be awarded a greencard through the lottery as everyone else, but if they are caught after a certain date they would not have that option, it might make a difference. There would have to be a crackdown on the employers of illegal workers as well as on workers themselves at the same time as the previous measures.

At the same time, the application for the greencard lottery would have to have a reduced fee. I don't know if this would work, but what we are doing now is not working and amnesty would only encourage more of the same. It's not fair to people who want to apply legally for a greencard.

[mawilson 2,133]

There is a way to immigrate that you have not included. That is the greencard lottery. Winning the greencard lottery is about as likely as winning the state lottery, but people win it every year.

Unless, of course, you're a citizen of Mexico, China, Jamaica, Russia, Canada, the UK, etc....

[Sylvia_n_Joseph 3]

There is a way to immigrate that you have not included. That is the greencard lottery. Winning the greencard lottery is about as likely as winning the state lottery, but people win it every year. The number of greencards awarded through the lottery is determined each year partly on the numbers of people the US needs to fill jobs that do not require special skills. At this point most of those jobs are filled by illegal aliens. If there were no illegal aliens, the US would need a lot more people to fill those jobs. The number of greencards awarded in the lottery would increase significantly. I know it isn't as simple as deporting all the current illegal workers and awarding millions of greencards in the lottery, but those are the basics.

If the US were to grant a sort of partial amnesty in which current illegals were informed that if they returned to their home countries and got in line with everyone else to apply for the greencard lottery, their illegal stays in the US would be overlooked and they would have as much of a chance to be awarded a greencard through the lottery as everyone else, but if they are caught after a certain date they would not have that option, it might make a difference. There would have to be a crackdown on the employers of illegal workers as well as on workers themselves at the same time as the previous measures.

At the same time, the application for the greencard lottery would have to have a reduced fee. I don't know if this would work, but what we are doing now is not working and amnesty would only encourage more of the same. It's not fair to people who want to apply legally for a greencard.

The green card lottery is 50 thousand each year. And only to specific under represented countries.

[Mags 112]

Something is just wrong with Mexico. Canada do Okay. I don't see any news reports that emphasize how they need to increase the barrier at the border. Most news anyway report primarily on the Mexican border.

As far as Florida is concerned, I remembered they used a MP to extract a small child away from his parents along time ago. I think the picture was on time magazine showing the MP with a large machine gun raiding the house of the family to get the kid. I'm surprised nobody brought this topic up yet.

Au contraire mon frere.Just recently on the NBC nightly news I saw about how some illegal immigrants who would have come to the USA,are going to Canada instead because the benefits are better.

Maybe instead of a fence, we should build a sanctuary corridor from Mexico to Canada?

All political inferences aside, any illegal aliens should be deported.

All illegal aliens, irrespective of origin, should be deported...

Do your f'ing homework and apply like everyone else here at VJ.

Why do so many people have a problem with this concept?

That seems like a personal attack on illegal immigrants, which is in violation of TOS.

Why don't you ban yourself for a day, William33?

But "illegal immigrant" isn't a member of VJ. The TOS specifically indicates that a personal attack against another member is breaking the TOS. Not "illegal immigrants" as a whole.

Ergo, William didn't break the TOS and won't be suspending himself for your viewing pleasure.

Now back to the original topic, purleese.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Mags

[Niels Bohr 72]

If a moderator like to debate, I will not refrain from the debate as well. I'm not the type of member who will fall under abusive privileges, and being threatened a ban. There's a difference between moderation, and posting.

[Ban Hammer 14,281]

And we all are guests on this forum and can be banned/deleted at anytime for any reason. I dont recall many being banned, some are more or less kept around for forum entertainment. Not hard to open another account anyways.

Guess what, moderators can suddenly become guests too, if they abuse their moderating privileges.

anyone can become a guest simply by logging out

[SpiritAlight 1]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread

and

lots of good-for-nothing racism.

Again, allow me to repeat myself (and a few others):

being that deporting people costs $$$

why not simply have a new Visa type for manual and "unskilled" labour?

And even allow people already here working to get one.

Employers could be the ones to distribute this....

HA

what am I saying?!!

They are the ones profiting!

They are the ones that do not want to pay whole/fair wages and other benefits that are required by workers' rights associations, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope this will probably not work.

Government simply needs to enact a federal law that states:

employers hiring undocumented workers will be fined and/or jailed and business licenses torn up.

That's it that's all.

Edited March 17, 2008 by SpiritAlight

[SpiritAlight 1]

Here, read this story.

This was a good read.

Thanks for posting it.

[Ban Hammer 14,281]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread

and

lots of good-for-nothing racism.

Again, allow me to repeat myself (and a few others):

being that deporting people costs $$$

why not simply have a new Visa type for manual and "unskilled" labour?

And even allow people already here working to get one.

Employers could be the ones to distribute this....

HA

what am I saying?!!

They are the ones profiting!

They are the ones that do not want to pay whole/fair wages and other benefits that are required by workers' rights associations, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope this will probably not work.

Government simply needs to enact a federal law that states:

employers hiring undocumented workers will be fined and/or jailed and business licenses torn up.

That's it that's all.

pretty much sums up what i've been saying all along. increase the fines to draconian levels (say $50k per employee) and apply this to any business or individual (like homeowners) and you'll see an exodus outta here.

as for how to send them all home? similar to the way they got here - self deportation this time instead of self importation.

eta: trusting a business to apply any type of worker visa is imo like having a fox guard the henhouse.

Edited March 17, 2008 by charlesandnessa

[SpiritAlight 1]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread

and

lots of good-for-nothing racism.

Again, allow me to repeat myself (and a few others):

being that deporting people costs $$$

why not simply have a new Visa type for manual and "unskilled" labour?

And even allow people already here working to get one.

Employers could be the ones to distribute this....

HA

what am I saying?!!

They are the ones profiting!

They are the ones that do not want to pay whole/fair wages and other benefits that are required by workers' rights associations, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope this will probably not work.

Government simply needs to enact a federal law that states:

employers hiring undocumented workers will be fined and/or jailed and business licenses torn up.

That's it that's all.

pretty much sums up what i've been saying all along. increase the fines to draconian levels (say $50k per employee) and apply this to any business or individual (like homeowners) and you'll see an exodus outta here.

as for how to send them all home? similar to the way they got here - self deportation this time instead of self importation.

eta: trusting a business to apply any type of worker visa is imo like having a fox guard the henhouse.

Yes, unfortunate...I agree.

[HAL 9000 96]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread

and

lots of good-for-nothing racism.

Again, allow me to repeat myself (and a few others):

being that deporting people costs $$$

why not simply have a new Visa type for manual and "unskilled" labour?

And even allow people already here working to get one.

Employers could be the ones to distribute this....

HA

what am I saying?!!

They are the ones profiting!

They are the ones that do not want to pay whole/fair wages and other benefits that are required by workers' rights associations, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope this will probably not work.

Government simply needs to enact a federal law that states:

employers hiring undocumented workers will be fined and/or jailed and business licenses torn up.

That's it that's all.

pretty much sums up what i've been saying all along. increase the fines to draconian levels (say $50k per employee) and apply this to any business or individual (like homeowners) and you'll see an exodus outta here.

as for how to send them all home? similar to the way they got here - self deportation this time instead of self importation.

eta: trusting a business to apply any type of worker visa is imo like having a fox guard the henhouse.

And we can add take those draconian penalties to help pay for positive programs to circumvent the need for illegals to migrate north when there are no available visas for them. Never mind that these programs would cost far less on a yearly basis than the weekly costs we currently undertake to create enemies in other regions of the planet.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Lots of good suggestions in this thread

and

lots of good-for-nothing racism.

Again, allow me to repeat myself (and a few others):

being that deporting people costs $$$

why not simply have a new Visa type for manual and "unskilled" labour?

And even allow people already here working to get one.

Employers could be the ones to distribute this....

HA

what am I saying?!!

They are the ones profiting!

They are the ones that do not want to pay whole/fair wages and other benefits that are required by workers' rights associations, etc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope this will probably not work.

Government simply needs to enact a federal law that states:

employers hiring undocumented workers will be fined and/or jailed and business licenses torn up.

That's it that's all.

pretty much sums up what i've been saying all along. increase the fines to draconian levels (say $50k per employee) and apply this to any business or individual (like homeowners) and you'll see an exodus outta here.

as for how to send them all home? similar to the way they got here - self deportation this time instead of self importation.

eta: trusting a business to apply any type of worker visa is imo like having a fox guard the henhouse.

And we can add take those draconian penalties to help pay for positive programs to circumvent the need for illegals to migrate north when there are no available visas for them. Never mind that these programs would cost far less on a yearly basis than the weekly costs we currently undertake to create enemies in other regions of the planet.

Hahaha! So true so true.

Oh but we are stirring other demons here aren't we?