How do you feel about Legalization of Illegals in US?

[Traviesa 0]

I was responding to how you said "fortunate...to have a degree." There's really no luck involved. A lot of hard work, yes...lots of sacrifice, yes. But no luck. Public education through the 12th grade is free in this country. We seriously take that for granted. If your family can't pay for college (like mine) it's very simple-you study the material, do your homework, and get a scholarship. Otherwise, there are educational grants and of course student loans for all. I don't know anyone who couldn't get a student loan. Those who chose to take the easy road were actually taking the larger risk. I don't have a lot of sympathy for that kind of apathy when there's another individual who risked his life to get here to do that job. Which one do I want working for me? The one who wants it and actually put forth the effort to get it. Reward based on merit, makes sense doesn't it?

don't you mean...reward for someone that snubs their nose at the laws of the nation?

I don't really look at it that way, and I don't really think they do either. There are certain laws that when you break them-you're going to be fully aware that you're breaking a law. Shoplifting is one I can think of. But how often do you and I speed without giving it a second thought? Unless of course until you see the flashing lights behind you. My point is-well I have 2. First one is that human beings began as migrant in nature. Not all people or cultures are like us, or put so much value on borders and property. Second one is that in a lot of these families it's expected or traditional like accounting runs in my family, to go elsewhere to work. They don't know anything else.

[GabiandVi 34]

I was responding to how you said "fortunate...to have a degree." There's really no luck involved. A lot of hard work, yes...lots of sacrifice, yes. But no luck. Public education through the 12th grade is free in this country. We seriously take that for granted. If your family can't pay for college (like mine) it's very simple-you study the material, do your homework, and get a scholarship. Otherwise, there are educational grants and of course student loans for all. I don't know anyone who couldn't get a student loan. Those who chose to take the easy road were actually taking the larger risk. I don't have a lot of sympathy for that kind of apathy when there's another individual who risked his life to get here to do that job. Which one do I want working for me? The one who wants it and actually put forth the effort to get it. Reward based on merit, makes sense doesn't it?

don't you mean...reward for someone that snubs their nose at the laws of the nation?

I don't really look at it that way, and I don't really think they do either. There are certain laws that when you break them-you're going to be fully aware that you're breaking a law. Shoplifting is one I can think of. But how often do you and I speed without giving it a second thought? Unless of course until you see the flashing lights behind you. My point is-well I have 2. First one is that human beings began as migrant in nature. Not all people or cultures are like us, or put so much value on borders and property. Second one is that in a lot of these families it's expected or traditional like accounting runs in my family, to go elsewhere to work. They don't know anything else.

I think if someone "risked his life to get here" then he knows he was breaking the law. I don't disagree that it might be cultural to migrate, but I do disagree that it is part of a culture to break the law. I think that is a very patronizing attitude.

[Traviesa 0]

I think if someone "risked his life to get here" then he knows he was breaking the law. I don't disagree that it might be cultural to migrate, but I do disagree that it is part of a culture to break the law. I think that is a very patronizing attitude.

I asked my soon-to-be ex-husband the question one time of why he thought he could break the law to come illegally to the US. And what he told me was, when you're coming to the US you don't really think of it as breaking the law-you think of it as going to look for work. I posted that on here a long time ago. I think when it was suggested that illegal aliens have some sort of evil intentions or are criminal minded. Of course he's only one. But just like so many cultural attitudes, I can't believe that one is unique to him. It's just not about breaking the law, even though that's what is actually done.

[Nessa 23]

I totally disagree with everybody.

[Nessa 23]

[Peikko 1,575]

I think if someone "risked his life to get here" then he knows he was breaking the law. I don't disagree that it might be cultural to migrate, but I do disagree that it is part of a culture to break the law. I think that is a very patronizing attitude.

I asked my soon-to-be ex-husband the question one time of why he thought he could break the law to come illegally to the US. And what he told me was, when you're coming to the US you don't really think of it as breaking the law-you think of it as going to look for work. I posted that on here a long time ago. I think when it was suggested that illegal aliens have some sort of evil intentions or are criminal minded. Of course he's only one. But just like so many cultural attitudes, I can't believe that one is unique to him. It's just not about breaking the law, even though that's what is actually done.

I am quite sure for many people that is how it happens, they don't have work, they see that work is available in the US, they go and find the work.

However, there is the question of entitlement. These people aren't 'entitled' to think this way because they are not US citizens. They should think of some way of changing the fact there is no workto be hard where they are rather than moving to where things are 'easier'.

It's easier to break the world up into segments when you realise that some people are entitled to things and others are not depending on the logistics of where they are born.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Well, just for fun, have a look at what is going on in other parts of our world:

http://toronto.nooneisillegal.org/

[Traviesa 0]

I think if someone "risked his life to get here" then he knows he was breaking the law. I don't disagree that it might be cultural to migrate, but I do disagree that it is part of a culture to break the law. I think that is a very patronizing attitude.

I asked my soon-to-be ex-husband the question one time of why he thought he could break the law to come illegally to the US. And what he told me was, when you're coming to the US you don't really think of it as breaking the law-you think of it as going to look for work. I posted that on here a long time ago. I think when it was suggested that illegal aliens have some sort of evil intentions or are criminal minded. Of course he's only one. But just like so many cultural attitudes, I can't believe that one is unique to him. It's just not about breaking the law, even though that's what is actually done.

I am quite sure for many people that is how it happens, they don't have work, they see that work is available in the US, they go and find the work.

However, there is the question of entitlement. These people aren't 'entitled' to think this way because they are not US citizens. They should think of some way of changing the fact there is no workto be hard where they are rather than moving to where things are 'easier'.

It's easier to break the world up into segments when you realise that some people are entitled to things and others are not depending on the logistics of where they are born.

They should because we think they should. But they're not us. They don't think the way we do. Just like it might seem strange to us that people in various parts of the world eat what they do (Bizarre Foods on the Travel Channel)-it's just what they do. Or how we think people shouldn't do things to mutilate their bodies (Taboo on Nat Geo)-it's just what they do. So besides the fact that I watch way too much TV, what it's made me realize is that different people think differently. What seems right or even obvious to me because of who I am, where I come from, how I was raised, etc. is not even a consideration in the mind of someone else in a different set of circumstances. We call it entitled because it infringes upon what we feel are our personal liberties. They don't see it that way-for them it's not about taking our pie, it's about sharing a piece of what to someone else must seem like a large enough pie. I am of the opinion, and Javier has said the same thing, that build a wall and they'll still find a way to come. It's just what they do.

[boardashell_2000 0]

How about establishing the Fair Tax system...at least all illegals would be paying taxes then!

[Peikko 1,575]

There was a level of irony in there. However, to some extent all things are true and aside from the cost aspect of 'fixing illegal immigration' I think there is some recognition of that by the administration.

The borders are what they are so they have to be upheld however at the same time to some degree those who cross the borders to seek work when they can't find work where they are are viewed charitably because the US is humanitarian, despite the views of some individuals and of course all countries which have the problems that lead to migration ought to change to enable their own citizens to be able to live and work within these countries but the challenges that need to be overcome to do so are staggering in some cases.

The world sure is a messy place.

[HAL 9000 96]

sorry but thats BS! the blue collar worker in America has no say in what laws are enforced. they are being hurt by choices made by others. some people can't go to college because of family issues or maybe they can't complete the courses...but, screw them too right?

Blue collar workers in America, being USCs, can vote.

why do you think the amnesty bill got shot down?.....they called their reps & said HELL NO!

So there ya go. Democracy in action. Those were a lot of phone calls, huh?

The immigration debate IMHO is nothing more than a media and right wing debate topic. Funny how one blatantly accuses the other of being at the opposite end of the political spectrum like it were a bad thing.

[HAL 9000 96]

OK, very well. And how are these other nations dealing commercially and legally with immigrant feeder nations? Believe it or not, not everyone in this ' 1st world' is as hung up as Australia and the UK about making immigration difficult. Nevertheless, from the preventative point of view (again, IF you want to have a million laws to punish, that's perfectly OK with me- that will not do anything to curb the APPETITE of those that want a better life), it does nothing to resolve the disparity between haves and have nots.

Do nothing nations... now that is a classic. Maybe their governments don't need to worry because we haven't made it an advantage for them to keep their own citizens? All it takes is a little positive reinforcement.

Punitive action only creates future issues to have to clean up.

...

Blue collar workers in America, being USCs, can vote.

Vote for who? A lot of politicians are more concerned about winning votes, aka their own ####, than doing what is right for the country or its people.

Second of all the reason so many other countries have such a high standard of living is due to their modern immigration policy. The mistake people make when looking at America is that they see a handful of billionaires here and think wow we are such a rich country. Six of the richest people in the world are from India. The second richest man in the world is ironically from MEXICO. Is the average Joe rich in those nations..

America is not a bottomless pot of wealth. Quite the contrary actually and I live in a wealthy area here. I know brick layers downunder who are 5 times wealthier, at 30, than Harvard and Yale ivy league grads with masters. Yet some act as if the American people are rolling in cash and that there is much surplus to go around and give the poor of other nations. Put simply, this country cannot afford all of these illegal immigrants. Especially at a time when it faces huge job loses and an imminent bankruptcy. Too many people caught up with Hollywood and not enough people with a dose of reality.

And somehow it all benefits those that run this country.

I always thought that a country's standard of living was more consistent with ample government resources based on how tolerant a population was to taxation and proportional spending by its government to maintain such a level. Gee I must be really wrong!

Average Joes in those countries have no way of being compared to those that keep a status quo that tips all the scales against them while benefiting from excellent commercial and legal relationships with those on our side of the border that gain proportionately to do business with said folks. THIS is a good time to argue that perhaps THEY be punished as well in this rush to legislate from the punitive point of view.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Hmmmm...what to add....

Well, how about this:

Arrest the people hiring the "outsiders" and not giving immigrants and US citizens those jobs.

Remember that walls and locks and alarm systems have never stopped anyone with intent.

It just makes things more coveted.

Creating paperwork such that anyone wanting to work here can with approval, i.e. something better than the H1B and the TN (etc) Visa's already in place. Something for the manual labourers etc.

(more ideas in a moment...I must eat something...hungry like the wolf grrrrrrrrrr)

[Ban Hammer 14,042]

Pretend, for a moment, that you are holding a camera (video).

Now, zoom out so that you can see your city.

Zoom out furthar...see your country.

Zoom out all the way to get a vantage point from outer space.

See our beautiful blue and green planet with some clouds hovering here and there?

Now ask yourself:

Is there really such a thing as an "illegal" human being?

(L) (L)

when they step foot on my property, especially at night, yes

... Who's going to pay for that?

Exactly.

Your tax dollars at work.

It sucks.

Time for a new idea!

Come on all you smarty-pantses.

Get to work!

THINK

mine the border!

[mawilson 2,133]

mine the border!

No need. Just make it guest-worker friendly: