May 1, 2003: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There is proof that the administration sold the case for war based not only on exaggerated information, but information that they KNEW was a lie. I don't see how that can be defended on any level.

Exactly!

Who is to blame? The Bush administration, primarily, for pushing the policy. And yes politicians in congress and the senate are to blame for not voting according to their conscience - we now know a lot of politicians had significant reservations about the administrations case for war at the time, but for one reason or another they decided to vote for military action.

Let us also not forget that the Congress approved military action as a last resort only after all other avenues were exhausted. Many voiced concern during the debate (www.senate.gov) that the administration is not going to use the authority wisely and head into Iraq prematurely. Which is exactly what happened.

The US was trying to apply pressure on Saddam. Without the authorization of the use of force, there would have been no pressure. With it, the UN weapons inspectors were allowed in Iraq, they did their work and were called off by no other than Bush so he can go in before it becomes clear that Saddam has no WMD arsenal at his disposal. That was not the intention of the authority that Congress granted the POTUS.

Go ahead, read the debate.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Lemme ask you....if Bush HADN'T gone in & Saddam had used them...how would you feel? I say with prevailing world opinion the way it was, I'm GLAD my politicians decided to go in.

I think your question is irrelevant. Saddam did not use any such weapons and to date nothing approaching a 'weapons programme' has been found. Why are you allowing the politicians to frame the issue for you anyway? As I said before, Saddam was a dictator but far from the worst one, and certainly not the most dangerous. I again refer specifically to Libya, North Korea and Iran. Since when did a contained, militarily crippled Saddam Hussein pose more of an immediate threat?

In any case, let me ask you again - if we're so concerned about national security why did we sell WMD material to Saddam in the first place? And why do we still continue to export terror to other countries by selling arms to dictators in Africa and South America?

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

I'll grant you Bush is not solely to blame for this, but its fair to say that seeing as he prosecuted the war, therefore he is in first in line for a large amount of the blame. Doesn't seem so complicated to me....

His administration sold this entirely on the basis that Saddam possessed WMD and would use them directly against the western world. Only when that story was exposed as false, did they apply spin to suggest that they intended to liberate the iraqis all along.

We DO know however that the justifications for the conflict were greatly exaggerated and none of this addresses the central question (that people have wanted an answer to for the last 3 years) of why a heavily contained, militarily crippled Iraq represented a clear and present threat to the national security of the United States.

Again I ask - what is it about Iraq that made it more dangerous and more terrorist-friendly than the likes of Iran, Libya and North Korea?

I hope noone is suggesting that when the government lies about an issue that has cost 10's of thousands of lies, we should not hold them to account for it?

he's responsible for prosecution of the war? well that's his job as commander in chief. and it takes congressional approval too....so spread the blame there too.

i suppose chemical weapons don't count as wmd's.........? nor was saddam's military was not that crippled.

now if he used chemical weapons on his own people, what really prevents him from using such on anyone else?

ah let's just blame bush for everything. jeesh.

Lemme ask you....if Bush HADN'T gone in & Saddam had used them...how would you feel? I say with prevailing world opinion the way it was, I'm GLAD my politicians decided to go in.

As I said before, Saddam was a dictator but far from the worst one, and certainly not the most dangerous. I again refer specifically to Libya, North Korea and Iran. Since when did a contained, militarily crippled Saddam Hussein pose more of an immediate threat?

tell that to those the he tortured and killed......

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

tell that to those the he tortured and killed......

That was a good line before we became the ones doing the torturing and killing...

[pax 0]

tell that to those the he tortured and killed......

Yay, are we going to take out Hu Jintao next? Maybe Kim Jong-Il? Robert Mugabe? The possibilities are endless! Wheeeeeeeee!

[Fuzzness 2]

tell that to those the he tortured and killed......

Yay, are we going to take out Hu Jintao next? Maybe Kim Jong-Il? Robert Mugabe? The possibilities are endless! Wheeeeeeeee!

what about arnold schwarzenegger??

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

tell that to those the he tortured and killed......

That was a good line before we became the ones doing the torturing and killing...

lol if you think that prison bit involving the us military was equal to saddam, that was just a walk in the park compared to what saddam did.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

tell that to those the he tortured and killed......

That was a good line before we became the ones doing the torturing and killing...

lol if you think that prison bit involving the us military was equal to saddam, that was just a walk in the park compared to what saddam did.

Comparatively speaking for the torture bit, yes. But what the US did against international law makes this "tell that to the..." line rather weak. Fact of the matter is that we killed for no actual reason and tortured against international conventions and that takes us off the moral high ground. It is sad that the US government would engage in any such thing.

Edited May 1, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Fuzzness 2]

people seem to conveniantly forget how many innocent iraqi's have been maimed or killed....

anyone have any stats on this?

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

tell that to those the he tortured and killed......

That was a good line before we became the ones doing the torturing and killing...

lol if you think that prison bit involving the us military was equal to saddam, that was just a walk in the park compared to what saddam did.

Comparatively speaking for the torture bit, yes. But what the US did against international law makes this "tell that to the..." line rather weak. Fact of the matter is that we killed for no actual reason and tortured against international conventions and that takes us off the moral high ground. It is sad that the US government would engage in any such thing.

if soldiers killed someone without cause then they are dealt with under the ucmj for war crimes. let's not forget that the geneva convention covers military and civilian personnel, not terrorists.....

[Fandango 1,439]

the facts are:

Iraq agreed to sanctions

They broke them

All the leading politicians and world leaders were united in thought that Iraq had WMDs...even PRE Bush!

US official policy towards Iraq changed to 'regime change' during Clinton era

Congress gave Bush the power to go to war

...and no amount of Monday morning quarterbacking is going to change any of it!

[pax 0]

people seem to conveniantly forget how many innocent iraqi's have been maimed or killed....

anyone have any stats on this?

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

the facts are:

Iraq agreed to sanctions

They broke them

All the leading politicians and world leaders were united in thought that Iraq had WMDs...even PRE Bush!

US official policy towards Iraq changed to 'regime change' during Clinton era

Congress gave Bush the power to go to war

...and no amount of Monday morning quarterbacking is going to change any of it!

plus we saw what un sanctions did.....an oil for food program that made people rich and didn't get food to the people in iraq.

[Fuzzness 2]

people seem to conveniantly forget how many innocent iraqi's have been maimed or killed....

anyone have any stats on this?

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

HOLY SH!T that's more than I even thought! I thought maybe HALF that at worse!

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

people seem to conveniantly forget how many innocent iraqi's have been maimed or killed....

anyone have any stats on this?

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

remove the spaces as this site screws up links for some reason

http://www.creativetony.com /tony/a_brief_history_ saddam_hussein.htm

Edited May 1, 2006 by charlesandnessa