(Reuters) - America may still think of itself as the land of opportunity, but the chances of living a rags-to-riches life are a lot lower than elsewhe

[almaty 19]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - America may still think of itself as the land of opportunity, but the chances of living a rags-to-riches life are a lot lower than elsewhere in the world, according to a new study published on Wednesday.

The likelihood that a child born into a poor family will make it into the top five percent is just one percent, according to "Understanding Mobility in America," a study by economist Tom Hertz from American University.

By contrast, a child born rich had a 22 percent chance of being rich as an adult, he said.

"In other words, the chances of getting rich are about 20 times higher if you are born rich than if you are born in a low-income family," he told an audience at the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank sponsoring the work.

He also found the United States had one of the lowest levels of inter-generational mobility in the wealthy world, on a par with Britain but way behind most of Europe.

"Consider a rich and poor family in the United States and a similar pair of families in Denmark, and ask how much of the difference in the parents' incomes would be transmitted, on average, to their grandchildren," Hertz said.

"In the United States this would be 22 percent; in Denmark it would be two percent," he said.

The research was based on a panel of over 4,000 children, whose parents' income were observed in 1968, and whose income as adults was reviewed again in 1995, 1996, 1997 and 1999.

The survey did not include immigrants, who were not captured in the original data pool. Millions of immigrants work in the U.S, many illegally, earnings much higher salaries than they could get back home.

Several other experts invited to review his work endorsed the general findings, although they were reticent about accompanying policy recommendations.

"This debunks the myth of America as the land of opportunity, but it doesn't tell us what to do to fix it," said Bhashkar Mazumder, a senior economist at the

Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland who has researched this field.

Recent studies have highlighted growing income inequality in the United States, but Americans remain highly optimistic about the odds for economic improvement in their own lifetime.

A survey for the New York Times last year found that 80 percent of those polled believed that it was possible to start out poor, work hard and become rich, compared with less than 60 percent back in 1983.

This contradiction, implying that while people think they are going to make it, the reality is very different, has been seized by critics of

President Bush to pound the White House over tax cuts they say favor the rich.

Hertz examined channels transmitting income across generations and identified education as the single largest factor, explaining 30 percent of the income-correlation, in an argument to boost public access to universities.

Breaking the survey down by race spotlighted this as the next most powerful force to explain why the poor stay poor.

On average, 47 percent of poor families remain poor. But within this, 32 percent of whites stay poor while the figure for blacks is 63 percent.

It works the other way as well, with only 3 percent of blacks making it from the bottom quarter of the income ladder to the top quarter, versus 14 percent of whites.

"Part of the reason mobility is so low in America is that race still makes a difference in economic life," he said.

[iceyspots 0]

Sad... But true... but I wonder what they use to define as "rich"? A lot of people I know, at least in the detroit area, had parents that worked at auto factories, or worked in jobs with their high school diploma... I've found that a lot of these kids have went on to get college degrees and do just a tad bit or much better than their parents did... so.. sometimes wealth can take quite a long time to attain through higher education.

[Mirorgate 0]

Well, I went from Rags to Tatters... close enough?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well, I went from Rags to Tatters... close enough?

Or for most Iraqis' - rags to ruins

[Jasman0717 9]

[Aymerlu 3]

Well, I went from Rags to Tatters... close enough?

Or for most Iraqis' - rags to ruins

Well, I went from Rags to Tatters... close enough?

Or for most Iraqis' - rags to ruins

And they are in control of this????? I think it's very sad.

Edited April 27, 2006 by Aymerlu

[bwaaderant 0]

And what do they consider poor?? I've been all over this world, and statistics I've seen back this up; our poor live better than most people on this planet. Europeans richer than us, hmm, how many own their own homes??

Iraqis going from rags to ruins? When was the last time you were there?? When was the last time you read about business starts, the huge jump in cell phone ownership, etc? Don't just read the paper and assume that the whole country is the mess that only a small portion actually is. I think you would be extremely surprised.

[almaty 19]

And what do they consider poor?? I've been all over this world, and statistics I've seen back this up; our poor live better than most people on this planet. Europeans richer than us, hmm, how many own their own homes??

Iraqis going from rags to ruins? When was the last time you were there?? When was the last time you read about business starts, the huge jump in cell phone ownership, etc? Don't just read the paper and assume that the whole country is the mess that only a small portion actually is. I think you would be extremely surprised.

wrap yourself in the flag .you will feel better.

[bwaaderant 0]

And what do they consider poor?? I've been all over this world, and statistics I've seen back this up; our poor live better than most people on this planet. Europeans richer than us, hmm, how many own their own homes??

Iraqis going from rags to ruins? When was the last time you were there?? When was the last time you read about business starts, the huge jump in cell phone ownership, etc? Don't just read the paper and assume that the whole country is the mess that only a small portion actually is. I think you would be extremely surprised.

wrap yourself in the flag .you will feel better.

I don't really don't need to wrap myself in a flag, the flag has wrapped itself around me, like I said, I've traveled the world, seen many places, many things, and I read many things other than what is spoon fed to us in the paper or TV. I don't see anyone on this web site, or any other for that matter, looking for info about getting a fiancee visa for any other country but this one. There are not too many people literally risking their lives to go to any other country but this one. Some, but not many. Why is that?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And what do they consider poor?? I've been all over this world, and statistics I've seen back this up; our poor live better than most people on this planet. Europeans richer than us, hmm, how many own their own homes??

Iraqis going from rags to ruins? When was the last time you were there?? When was the last time you read about business starts, the huge jump in cell phone ownership, etc? Don't just read the paper and assume that the whole country is the mess that only a small portion actually is. I think you would be extremely surprised.

Well this was in the news today

Iraq head urges end to bloodshed

A Baghdad morgue reports that sectarian violence has resulted in the deaths of 1091 people in the month. This is Baghdad! The capital city!

Have to ask if the coalition can't keep the peace in the capital city, what do you suppose is going on in the rest of the country?

On the other point - countries in Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc) have always been amongst the richest in the world. They have the highest wages and the best cost of living on average. This isn't exactly new you know...

I don't really don't need to wrap myself in a flag, the flag has wrapped itself around me, like I said, I've traveled the world, seen many places, many things, and I read many things other than what is spoon fed to us in the paper or TV. I don't see anyone on this web site, or any other for that matter, looking for info about getting a fiancee visa for any other country but this one. There are not too many people literally risking their lives to go to any other country but this one. Some, but not many. Why is that?

Why do people risk their lives to get into the US?

Because the huge a land border between Mexico and the US makes it somewhat easier to get into the United States than to Europe. Somewhat easier to cross the desert than it is to swim the Atlantic...

As for the fiancee visa comment - are you actually suggesting that the people here are seeking marriage based visa's primarily to ensure a better economic standard of living? That's not exactly the definition of 'legal immigration' is it?

Edited May 11, 2006 by Fishdude

[almaty 19]

And what do they consider poor?? I've been all over this world, and statistics I've seen back this up; our poor live better than most people on this planet. Europeans richer than us, hmm, how many own their own homes??

Iraqis going from rags to ruins? When was the last time you were there?? When was the last time you read about business starts, the huge jump in cell phone ownership, etc? Don't just read the paper and assume that the whole country is the mess that only a small portion actually is. I think you would be extremely surprised.

wrap yourself in the flag .you will feel better.

I don't really don't need to wrap myself in a flag, the flag has wrapped itself around me, like I said, I've traveled the world, seen many places, many things, and I read many things other than what is spoon fed to us in the paper or TV. I don't see anyone on this web site, or any other for that matter, looking for info about getting a fiancee visa for any other country but this one. There are not too many people literally risking their lives to go to any other country but this one. Some, but not many. Why is that?

so you are the only person to travel..been to iraq i suppose...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

so you are the only person to travel..been to iraq i suppose...

The "I have personal experience so I don't have to back anything up" argument doesn't wash with me

[bwaaderant 0]

Actually, yes, I've been to Iraq, I recently got out of the military. 20+ years! Yes, Baghdad is a mess, but why is that? Could it be because that is where the press is concentrated, and the terrorists know they can get more bang for their buck there? The sectarian violence is sad, and frustrating. But it is not up to the US to control that, and trust me, it didn't start with the invasion of Iraq by the US, it has been going on for a long time.

Since when has Europe become an island?? You mean there are no countries bordering the EU? And there are people who do lose their lives trying to get into Europe, many people have died trying to cross the Strait of Gibraltar. And I don't mean that it's just Mexicans risking their lives to come here, I would too if I were in their shoes. How many Haitians, Cubans, etc., have drowned trying to get here? How many people from all over the world have been found suffocated in SeaLand containers arriving in our ports, how many people have been found dead, or half dead, in the cargo holds of rusty, leaky cargo ships, how many bodies have dropped out of the landing gear wells of aircraft coming from over seas?

As for the Scandinavian countries you mentioned, tell me, until recently, what was it that they had in common? Japan shares this too. Plus, living under the umbrella of US military might they were able to spend money that would have been sspent on defense for other things.

And no, I didn't mean to say that anyone looking to marry an American is only coming here to better their economic standing. If that's the way it came across then I sincerely apologize. But I'm sure it does happen in a tiny minority of cases. I was refering to Americans looking to move to other countries, it happens, not often. I was one of them at one time.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The sectarian violence is sad, and frustrating. But it is not up to the US to control that, and trust me, it didn't start with the invasion of Iraq by the US, it has been going on for a long time.

Sure. But in the absence of an autonomous Iraqi military, isn't it the US' responsibility to secure the peace? Who else will.

Since when has Europe become an island?? You mean there are no countries bordering the EU? And there are people who do lose their lives trying to get into Europe, many people have died trying to cross the Strait of Gibraltar. And I don't mean that it's just Mexicans risking their lives to come here, I would too if I were in their shoes. How many Haitians, Cubans, etc., have drowned trying to get here? How many people from all over the world have been found suffocated in SeaLand containers arriving in our ports, how many people have been found dead, or half dead, in the cargo holds of rusty, leaky cargo ships, how many bodies have dropped out of the landing gear wells of aircraft coming from over seas?

Perhaps because US immigration policy is somewhat more lenient on illegals?

As for the Scandinavian countries you mentioned, tell me, until recently, what was it that they had in common? Japan shares this too. Plus, living under the umbrella of US military might they were able to spend money that would have been spent on defense for other things.

Sure, but the fact remains they have a higher standard of living

[Heracles 417]

Well this was in the news today

On the other point - countries in Scandinavia (Norway, Sweden, Denmark etc) have always been amongst the richest in the world. They have the highest wages and the best cost of living on average. This isn't exactly new you know...

Why do people risk their lives to get into the US?

Because the huge a land border between Mexico and the US makes it somewhat easier to get into the United States than to Europe. Somewhat easier to cross the desert than it is to swim the Atlantic...

As for the fiancee visa comment - are you actually suggesting that the people here are seeking marriage based visa's primarily to ensure a better economic standard of living? That's not exactly the definition of 'legal immigration' is it?

What democrats fail to realise is that under the socialist system (as per Norway, Sweden) the one thing that they value the most, which is freedom to be individual (aka Jack ###, Madonna, whatever), is usually lost. Under socialism you have to conform, period! Sorry that means no comming up with any new ####### such as "land/civil rights for gay whales"..

I have to say, I have spent quite a bit of time in the US over the years and it just amazes me to see how anti-American democrats are. Hey, in Australia the political parties have major differences but at least there is not a single side who behaves or trashes the country as the democrats do. Mate, if democrats don't like the 'big bad US' why don't they just get out and move to a country that is based on their ideals. Rather than talk ####### about the nation 24/7.

Another funny one is what I call the modern Nazi organization (yep the ACLU) who go around trying to removde even a hint of moral religion, yet seem to turn a blind eye on the true problems facing the nation. It’s like “wake up”, even Australians know that the US was founded on freedom of religion, not atheisms