The Gun Control Debate

[Ban Hammer 14,279]

What does the bible have to do with the right to own a weapon? I do wish some person would show me where the eleventh commandment is!

that's the one that says ""colt, ruger, and smith and wesson have dominion over all others, thou shalt not worship false firearms like beratta, sig saur and others."

[john & jean 37]

Ever read this?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

the bolded part of this should put an end to any discussions about taking them away, although i doubt that would happen.

You know, I've always been opposed to guns. But now I've even more convinced. Because collectively, you aren't interested in owning a weapon for the good of the masses. You are interested in owning one to protect your sorry a$$ from an imagined home invader.

i've never stated i owned any firearms to protect joe the average citizen nor is it expected. are you suggesting that i or others put our lives and the possibilty of having to defend our actions in court for someone who didn't take the prudent actions that could defend themself? nowwhere have i run across anything that legally requires me to put my life at risk for someone else. if someone wants protection, hire a freaking bodyguard.

Don't ever talk to me again about your 'rights'. You don't even begin to know the meaning of them.

indeed.......refer to the bolded above.......

This topic has been hijacked and contaminated

[Ban Hammer 14,279]

My ex was never convicted of anything. He was ticketed for battery. He paid the ticket and went on.

was this domestic battery?

[natty bumppo 297]

What does the bible have to do with the right to own a weapon? I do wish some person would show me where the eleventh commandment is!

that's the one that says ""colt, ruger, and smith and wesson have dominion over all others, thou shalt not worship false firearms like beratta, sig saur and others."

Must be thinking about Beecher's Bibles ...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Leaving gun control aside for a moment - does anyone else wonder why it is that this sort of school shooting rampage appears to occur with much greater frequency in the US than in other countries? Gary mentioned the media earlier - and I don't doubt that plays a part in promoting these incidents - but I find it hard to think of an incidence where (any) mass murder would not be newsworthy - so it seems well... very unlikely that this is simply a case of over-reporting. Rather, it does seem to be happening with great frequency.

I really don't think school shootings occur at nearly the same frequency the media (or the average person) would have us believe. According to criminal justice statistics, school shootings in the United States are -- believe it or not -- actually a relatively isolated and rare phenomenon. This doesn't mean they don't happen, of course. But a new shooting isn't taking place every day, twice a day, either.

The media loves to hype this sort of thing up, mostly because it's fantastic news. It generates interest and that's good for news shows, news papers, news magazines, news radio shows and news on the Internet. As Number 6 said, the media likes to spend an inordinate amount of time detailing these crimes, so we end up know the perpetrator almost personally. Perhaps some people find these stories that interesting, but what probably ends up happening is somebody, somewhere, decides they can do "better" and becomes a copycat.

Interestingly enough, I've noticed that the media focuses far more on the criminals than the victims. Maybe this is because more information is released about them or perhaps it's because the media feels that victims aren't "interesting enough." Whatever the intent is, those who deserve our time end up getting passed over in favor of morbid curiosity.

Yes - they certainly are rare, given that the vast majority of gun crime appears to be the work of gangs or other organised crime. The random nutter going off the deep-end is always going to be pretty exceptional as far as that goes.

However, it does seem to be the case that this specific phenomenon, while rare, seems to be a lot less rare in the US than elsewhere - as I say there were two incidents like this in the UK in the last 25 years. Here we're looking at a half dozen or so each year. Beyond that - I can't imagine how (any) mass killing would not make the news headlines - so I doubt that this is simply a case of media-overreporting, though I do think the media plays a role in glorifying the dodgy egos of some of these people.

[rebeccajo 14]

My ex was never convicted of anything. He was ticketed for battery. He paid the ticket and went on.

was this domestic battery?

No. He roughed up a clerk in a store.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Criminals aren't stupid, they're not going to go legally buy and register a .45 then go out the next day to rob a bank or kill someone.

These aren't career criminals who are going on these shooting sprees, killing randomly and at will. Check the records of most these shooters have no prior run-in with the law.

This is a good point. There are many reasons (mostly for sport) that I would consider owning a gun, but "in case I happen to be in a school auditorium where a student snaps and goes on a killing spree" isn't one of them. Neither is personal safety. Most violent crime are committed by someone the person knows (often domestic violence, often because there was a huge fight and look, that gun was just on hand, etc.)

So buying a gun for personal protection seems to be 'in case of mass societal breakdown' or 'I have a personal reason to be afraid.' I don't have the latter, and planning for the former is a bit like buying struck-by-lightning insurance.

That's interesting.

In New Jersey, we have a huge crime rate. Most of it revolves around black gangsters fighting over drugs and Musketeeresque honor battles revolving around issues like who stepped on my foot. Its a pattern that seems to repeat itself in other parts of country as well.

There's not much you can do about the honor battles, but you can stop the drugs. Of course that would involve some near military police work, perhaps that's the reason so many citizens in other states are going in for these concealed weapons licenses to defend themselves.

Perhaps the government is waiting for someone to become Batman

[Heracles 417]

In New Jersey, we have a huge crime rate. Most of it revolves around black gangsters fighting over drugs and Musketeeresque honor battles revolving around issues like who stepped on my foot. Its a pattern that seems to repeat itself in other parts of country as well.

There's not much you can do about the honor battles, but you can stop the drugs. Of course that would involve some near military police work, perhaps that's the reason so many citizens in other states are going in for these concealed weapons licenses to defend themselves.

Perhaps the government is waiting for someone to become Batman

The Police here have their hands tied behind their backs. They probably have to fill out a form to use the toilet. If they take too long they are put on unpaid leave while they investigate. On the other hand the criminals know that unless the Police can prove they did it using 17 different camera angles, nothing happens to them. To make matters worse, throwing them in prison is also pointless as they just get out angrier with more connections.

Anyone been to Prince Georges County in Maryland. #### that entire county needs to be bulldozed down.

I recently watched a documentary on MS-13. Now that was disturbing and a good reason to store a handgun in every room of the house.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...14263&hl=en

Edited February 18, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Scott & Lai 12]

I have to say that to see christians support the idea of gun ownership for personal protection does seem to me the greater hypocrisy. However, I probably have misunderstood something fundamental about what it means to be a christian.

So are you saying that Christians are not permitted the means to defend themselves against violent attack, and are required to submit to being mugged, raped, murdered, etc.?

[Ban Hammer 14,279]

I have to say that to see christians support the idea of gun ownership for personal protection does seem to me the greater hypocrisy. However, I probably have misunderstood something fundamental about what it means to be a christian.

So are you saying that Christians are not permitted the means to defend themselves against violent attack, and are required to submit to being mugged, raped, murdered, etc.?

maybe her understanding of christianity is about as good as it is about gun laws - i.e. nada.

[Nagishkaw 510]

What does the bible have to do with the right to own a weapon? I do wish some person would show me where the eleventh commandment is!

that's the one that says ""colt, ruger, and smith and wesson have dominion over all others, thou shalt not worship false firearms like beratta, sig saur and others."

....Like the old Hymn says, ' Leaning on the Everlasting ARMS ' .

[Fandango 1,440]

I this thread....

[britty 1]

GREAT QUESTIONS OF THE BIBLE:

"Lord, should we strike with our swords?"

Luke 22:49

___By John Tunnell,

___Pastor, First Baptist Church, Albany

___"When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, 'Lord, should we strike with our swords?'" (Luke 22:49). This is one of those bewildering places in Scripture where Jesus seems to contradict himself. Earlier in the same chapter, Jesus tries to tell his disciples they should expect radical changes in how they would be treated while trying to minister.

JOHN TUNNELL

___In the past, Jesus had instructed them to take no money or luggage or even an extra pair of sandals when they traveled from city to city. The people would take care of their needs, but when the religious leaders unleashed their full hatred on Jesus, the disciples also would be hated.

___Jesus issued new procedures. "But now, if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag, and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." If we take this passage literally, Jesus was instructing his disciples to acquire arms and be prepared to defend themselves with deadly force. Apparently, this is what the disciples thought Jesus meant. Two of them even acknowledged possessing swords. Jesus even commented the two swords would be enough.

___Immediately after his conversation, Jesus led the disciples to the Mount of Olives, where he asked them to pray. We know the disciples were exhausted and, in fact, fell asleep.

___It is no wonder that when the contingent of soldiers arrived to arrest Jesus, Peter sprang to his defense. After all, Peter probably still was smarting from Jesus' rebuke, predicting Peter would deny his Lord within a few hours. To prove his allegiance to Jesus, Peter, perhaps in a half-daze, struck one of the men, cutting off his ear.

___ To Peter's amazement, Jesus not only did not compliment him on his fine swordsmanship, but rebuked him again and healed the enemy's ear.

___ Despite the fact Jesus stopped the disciples from defending him with force, some today use these passages to defend their position of using deadly force to protect themselves and their interests. In fact, some right-wing military survival groups who call themselves followers of Christ advocate armed resistance as Christian duty.

___ It is true that using deadly force on enemies was practiced by God's people in the Old Testament. God himself instructed his people at times to destroy every inhabitant of certain cities. King David became a national hero by "bearing his sword" against Goliath.

___ However, Jesus came announcing a new covenant. God's weapon of choice was no longer the sword but was now love and mercy. Jesus made his position clear when he said, "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,' but I say to you, 'Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.'" Jesus also said, "Love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

___ Even if there was room for confusion in what Jesus said, there was no doubt about what he did. The Scripture tells us he had legions of warrior angels at his disposal, but he chose to endure the brutality, the scourging and the cross without so much as a verbal abuse.

___ Enough said.

OK I'm a little confused. Are you saying that you are a Christian, and as such, are closer to Jesus because you don't possess a firearm, or, are you trying to prove that Christians on this thread who do own firearms should disarm now, otherwise they are not good Christians?

[Jaseball 0]

What does the bible have to do with the right to own a weapon? I do wish some person would show me where the eleventh commandment is!

that's the one that says ""colt, ruger, and smith and wesson have dominion over all others, thou shalt not worship false firearms like beratta, sig saur and others."

Oh man, please do not talk falsely about the cult of Sig Saur....

[Peikko 1,575]

I quite clearly stated that I believe christians who think it's ok to use guns for personal defence are hypocrits. Someone then pointed to some quote they thought justified the use of guns for that purpose and I merely posted the counter-argument. I really don't see how that is at all confusing.

I have not stated whether a 'good christian' may or may not own a gun.