ababdonment

[Nanusia & Lukaszek 0]

I don't understand why everybody is up and attacking tito for his comments. He gave his views on how the OP should protect himself from possible situations that *could* come into play by his wife splitting. Generalizations as they may be about Russian women, they do happen, they happen so often that their are soo many stories of them.

I ride with 2 guys on the train each day for the past 7 yrs to work. Both found their Russian ladies to end up in the exact situation as the OP has described and tito. The Russian ladies are trained before they leave Russia on the process. They have people here locally that keep on with the schooling of what the process is and how to prepare for the split, and what to have taken care of before she can take off running. They choose their mates by location practically, due to other Russian ladies (and where they are) that will be able to help/coach them in the US on the next steps. This is a well thought out plan. It is the USCs who get fooled in the process because they have no idea what is comming.

The process of getting an SSN, a drivers license, car & credit card are standard practice before they leave. Then comes the filing for abuse to get the GC. Happened to people I know, so I'm speaking from their experiences. This forum is to help those in problems with advice. I belive that's what tito was doing, giving advice about the possible sitiations that arrise after the OPs wife took off with no form of contact. So attacks from others, who don't have experience on the topic aren't fair or knowledgable and shouldn't have a place here on VJ.

[tito 1]

Sorry - but that's the way advice would be delivered to a client. Straight up. I am completely dispassionate on the issue and am relating professional experience that I have seen dealing with close colleagues who have this very topic as their specialty. While it's great to want to give someone or some situation the benefit of the doubt, given the totality of the circumstances in simply what was said in the first post...no. This does not appear to be one of those times, and even the OP has said that!

Sorry - but as politically incorrect as it may be, and as a sad truth as it may be, the fact remains (fact...not fiction) that this set of circumstances and state of affairs is VERY common among many (not all!) immigrants from certain parts of the world. In other words, of the people who pull this sort of stunt, a significant majority are from a certain part of the world...or, in other words, statistics in a professional setting show that Russian women do this stuff all the time. How do you sugar coat that? But that's really NOT THE ISSUE! The issue is, under the circumstances, how can we in this forum HELP THE OP!?

The OP has to understand what happened and the reasonable likely reality given the statistics...and to PROTECT HIMSELF from extensive liability. The wife is who-knows-where doing who-knows-what after a significant investment on his part. She can go to a department store or a bank and open up credit cards...blow a bunch of money on clothing, whatever, and leave OP on the hook for that liability. She drives a car...gets in an accident...causes injury to someone else or to property...then OP is responsible. She gets hurt, gets sick, G-d forbid something happens to her, she goes to the hospital, OP is financially responsible as the spouse. WHO KNOWS what might happen!? These are very real consequences. The advice is sound. And yes...the reasonable likelihood with a woman from that part of the world with the history of what happened and the circumstances briefly described by OP is that, it was a set-up from the get go and that, to protect HERSELF, the wife is being counseled by many before her and/or attorneys whom she will hire to get a green card.

This is sound advice...like it or not...there's nothing unprofessional about that, or about the course of this thread and the way the likely circumstances were presented.

[ginger1981 0]

You don't know me, yet you call me a 'random idiot'. How nice...how quaint. They say that personal attacks are the sign of fear.

"Quaint" (ooh did you say it in a British accent like a Bond villain? Because that would be so cool!) would be if I called you a specific idiot. I called you a "random" idiot because it's a little more new-gen, yo. And yeah, I'm afraid alright. People like you make me very afraid because I know someone out there will actually take you seriously and quite possibly ruin their life by following your advice.

There's nothing to fear, Mox. Except, perhaps, the truth of what I'm saying is a very real and very highly probable outcome.

"truth" is an absolute, and has no "probability." The OP says his wife left and won't return his phone calls. You jumped to a HUGE effing conclusion based on just a few words and her nationality.

The poster is in a pretty bad way, and to give false hope by encouraging desperation doesn't do anybody any good. This exact situation is absolutely NOTORIOUS. It happens all the time. Not in every relationship, but this is the textbook variety. I sure hope I'm wrong!

Nobody is giving the poster false hope. But you're giving him false fear. As I said before, you're a fearmonger of the worst sort. Oh ####### I called you another name. You're going to take exception aren't you? I hate it when you take exception. Lifesaver?

There is a fundamental rule about holes: when you find yourself in one, the first thing you have to do if you want to get out of it is to stop digging.

Here's another fundamental rule about holes: if all that's coming out of yours is sh*t then it's best to plug it up.

Those are clues to the formulation of a really bad scenario.

Yes, a really bad scenario. Best we fill in the FREAKING HUGE GIGANTIC GAPS with fear, speculation, and more fear.

Just from my objective opinion (and as someone who worked many years ago at the Nebraska Service Center) I didn't take Tito's advice as scare tactics, but as great advice for a worst case scenario. I don't think the accusation was ever made all Russian brides are bad and will rob you and run away...only that in the cases of where abuse in order to receive a green card are claimed the majority are Russian.

In all due respect, I think you need to take a step back. If this happens to be the unfortunate situation happening to this poor bloke I think Tito gave excellent advice. If it isn't, well then it isn't applicable. I understand where you would be up in arms seeing you married someone from Russia, and I am happy for you and for those where it worked out. But on the same token I am glad someone gave sound advice to someone who is potentially being ripped off.

[Jeraly 4]

I don't understand why everybody is up and attacking tito for his comments. He gave his views on how the OP should protect himself from possible situations that *could* come into play by his wife splitting. Generalizations as they may be about Russian women, they do happen, they happen so often that their are soo many stories of them.

I ride with 2 guys on the train each day for the past 7 yrs to work. Both found their Russian ladies to end up in the exact situation as the OP has described and tito. The Russian ladies are trained before they leave Russia on the process. They have people here locally that keep on with the schooling of what the process is and how to prepare for the split, and what to have taken care of before she can take off running. They choose their mates by location practically, due to other Russian ladies (and where they are) that will be able to help/coach them in the US on the next steps. This is a well thought out plan. It is the USCs who get fooled in the process because they have no idea what is comming.

The process of getting an SSN, a drivers license, car & credit card are standard practice before they leave. Then comes the filing for abuse to get the GC. Happened to people I know, so I'm speaking from their experiences. This forum is to help those in problems with advice. I belive that's what tito was doing, giving advice about the possible sitiations that arrise after the OPs wife took off with no form of contact. So attacks from others, who don't have experience on the topic aren't fair or knowledgable and shouldn't have a place here on VJ.

Can I just say thank you for addressing the issue that I think tito has been trying to point out in his offensive/emotive/hashed up way? I think this post is informative and helpful without the opinionated blather that has been tarnishing some potentially valuable information in this thread

I can understand that this may be an issue in certain countries but as StP says - there are ways of putting things that are more helpful than getting people's backs up

[tito 1]

"big conspiracy behind it with people coaching her on how to do it"

There is. And there are. And as I said, there are even lawyers poised with the language already printed out for the forms, with supporting declarations, with psychologists ready to testify at the deportation hearing or I-130 proceedings about how traumatized was the spouse. If you don't think that's the case, then that's great. There is a certain bliss to ignoring the reality. But heed not only my advice, but that of others who have had such experiences, who have worked at the processing centers, other attorneys, whatever...anyone with any experience in the field will tell you the same thing, no matter the terms in which it is couched, no matter how soft the gloves, no matter how rosey the glasses. The "Russian Bride" story is no secret and, unfortunately, many a lovely, caring, genuine, well-intended potential spouses are subjected to guilt by association. The reputation is no accident, the ways and means utilized to achieve a particular result are nothing new, and the risks for the USC spouse are enormous.

I hate to say it, but these are facts. Jeraly, I hasten to say it, but YOUR post is an examle of the opinionated blather in this thread.... It contains judgments, officious commentary, derogatory references, when none are called for, with respect to very sound reasoning based on the reality of the situation that even the OP concedes. So, please, officious intermeddlers...back off. View the information as just that: INFORMATION. The OP stands to lose quite a bit here and needs, at the very least, to contemplate the situation in a light that will likely end up helping him the most.

Edited February 4, 2008 by tito

[Jeraly 4]

I just find it interesting that you feel you always have to have the last word. There really is no need to be so aggressive. I am not an aggressive person by nature and I just feel that what you are trying to say could be said in a more personable manner. It offers an opinion but no constructive advice and I think that is what this forum is about - offering advice to those that request it rather than a subjective point of view. Personally, and this is my opinion, I think that your attitude stinks and that your high-and-mighty, aggressive approach to posting is disgusting when there are real people's feelings, relationships and emotions at stake. This might be the internet. This might be a forum. This might not be my real name. But I, along with the majority of other users of this website, am a real person. You might do to remember that sometime.

[tito 1]

This was made into a personal issue by yourself and a few others who took it upon yourself to call me names and ridicule sound advice and professional opinion based on the facts as presented and as conceded by someone who is in a world of hurt because of the circumstances he found himself in, and there is a definite need to get a plan of action together on his part to protect himself...not to relish in some fantasy. How or why you view MY posts as aggressive is something you take responsibility for. You can make what I say or have said mean anything you want, even take it to mean what it says, and how it is intended. It's your choice...and one you obviously made. When the issues presented are called into question by such commentary, yes, I will take the time to respond in order to clarify.

Back to the issue at hand, this is a tough forum because stuff happens that isn't pleasant, and people are reeling...USC's and immigrants. But please don't lecture me on etiquette or personal relations. The advice is sound, the implications are real, and there's no way to sugar coat it. My posts are replete with advice...how best for the OP to protect himself given the circumstances, and information on the harsh but true reality that this stuff happens A LOT with Russian brides...so be careful. Again...anything more or beyond that, and it's what you're making it mean for yourself...or others who might interpret what is being said in any particular way. But name calling, condescending and snide comments and remarks, and things like that...no, it's not appropriate, so please do not engage in it any further.

Edited February 4, 2008 by tito

[Jeraly 4]

I just find it interesting that you feel you always have to have the last word...

[tito 1]

LOL! How ironic to have a post about the last word. Well, you have the last word then...or we can go on like this, you getting the last word telling me about how I need to get the last word, but that's ridiculous. I thought the, "I know you are but what am I" stuff was behind us.

With a huge tug of the reins, back to the issue at hand...the unfortunate circumstances of the OP. I'm simply relating information that is or might be helpful to him. This thread became about "me" for the agenda of others...and it should not be.

Edited February 4, 2008 by tito

[William33 110]

As a reminder, the OP was asking for advice. We do not offer professional opinions here, rather anecdotal information that may be useful to the OP.

The back and forth needs to stop, as this does not help the OP in any way whatsoever.

[mtracksport 0]

well i might as well give my thoughts on this while it is still fresh. tito and i have had some discussion about this type of situation in the past few days and as much as i hate to say it he may be on to something. am going through a situation with a employee so have not had time to comment till tonight . a good friend of mine met a girl from russia on the internet (very good looking) they talked for awhile and then after 6 months he went to see her. (even better) within a year she was here and they were married. after 6 months of marriage she told him something that knocked his socks off. seems she never had any intentions of staying married after she got here and originally had planned through a agency in Moscow the divorce, claims of abuse, how to create bruises ect. the whole plan was done as soon as he proposed and filed for the fiance visa. the agency even helped her fill out the paperwork so all she had to do was submit it. cool huh? // now the good part. the dumb sh-t must have done something right because she fell in love with him and wants to spend the rest of her life with him. she had twins last November and is expecting again. they are very happy, but she warns that there are agencys that are based in moscow and the U.S. that are doing this to unsuspecting USC. so i have to say (just this one time tito might be on to something) i know this is not the same in all cases but there are far more from russia being reported than anywhere else. they sure produce beautiful women in russia though. must be the caviar AL

[StillThePrettiest 4]

the issue is not whether tito is 'on to something' or not; he may be, he may not be; certainly it's not unreasonable for someone to put something out there as part of the general information that makes up this thread... what I, and what I think most other people have objected to, is his manner; however many hundred words he types justifying himself, HE COMES ACROSS AS ALARMIST, SUBJECTIVE AND EMOTIVE

this is not about 'sugar coating', or somehow avoiding the issue; the opposite of 'subjective' is 'objective', and in this sort of situation the latter is far better

telling someone what WILL happen, and IS true, a la:

The next you will hear from her is from an attorney claiming abuse so that she can self-apply for a green card under form I-130. She knew about it before she got here, and had it all set up in advance. VERY VERY common for Russian wives. 2 months is about the time-frame. She will claim that you kept her as a sexual slave, that you did not allow her to leave the house, that you locked her in a room, all of that. The attorneys have the forms already pre-filled out. That will lead to domestic violence proceedings for a restraining order, and she might even be taken to a psychologist for all of the trauma she went through at your hands.

is subjective, in the extreme, and as such unhelpful, possibly even dangerous

it might be excusable as a dramatic device, in a novel, but in a forum purporting to give advice? NOT APPROPRIATE

even is he's right, even he's 100% right, he DOESN'T KNOW, AND YET HE CLAIMS TO

if anything, this undermines anything factual about his claims

the SAME INFORMATION/OPINION could have been given in such a manner:

'Unfortunately, in my experience this is a common occurrence. I have heard of women claiming abuse so that they can self-apply for a green card under form I-130. It's even possible that it was set up in advance, although of course I don't know your personal situation...' etc etc

I would be surprised if the content of tito's endless posts is as accurate as he claims, however I have been surprised before and certainly this isn't an area of expertise for me, so I'm not arguing on that score... no, the issue here is the way he thinks his manner and wording is appropriate, when it's inappropriate in the extreme

if, as he claims, this is the language he 'would use to a client' then all I can do is repeat what I said above: for Og's sake, get a professional manner

[tito 1]

Why is how I post, the content of my post, or the emotion or zeal behind my posts an issue at all? Who says what is "appropriate" under the circumstances? My goodness! And someone here was critical of ME for being aggressive?? Wow. I guess we DO believe what we want to believe and see only what we want to see. There's nothing offensive in the tone or content of the posts, or objectionable...there's no name calling or accusations on my part, only those directed at me. I have a background on this very issue that goes beyond being a victim...I'm not here to dispense professional advice, but to respond to the OP's issue and enlighten him, and others, to the consequences of something that I see in practice happening quite frequently with the same fact pattern and same circumstances. What is wrong with that?

Fact: this stuff happens ALL - THE - TIME. As I said, and as is quoted, it's something "VERY VERY COMMON for Russian wives". All Russian wives? NO! The ones that run off without a word after a 2 month marriage? YES - probably upwards of 99.997%. So, the odds are pretty good this is one of those times.

Without analyzing the situation, some of you posters are jumping quantum boundaries to leap to conclusions that are total non-sequitors. You contend I presume the worst, and that may be the case - but it's what's happening and what happens. This is the fact pattern that I see in the course of my colleague's practice all the time. I am relating my experience in what I see, hear, understand, have discovered, about Russian brides in particular who skip out on their spouse and sponsor, and what they TYPICALLY do, and what is their next maneuver. If the odds play out, that is what will happen here. As I state, it's "VERY VERY COMMON". Granted, no one can tell the future, but the future can be predicted given a certain set of circumstances and fact patterns. I hope I'm wrong...I do...but it doesn't seem like that is the case. Yet some of you posters are still on my case for being honest and forthright.

People who come looking for assistance don't want smoke blown up their noses...they want to know what is likely to be the extent of their exposure. They don't want false hope! This is not a place for warm fuzzies...stuff is happening...BAD stuff...and people need to protect themselves because the consequences are grave. You go to a doctor who discovers you have a brain tumor, do you want him to tell you to go home, take 2 aspirin, and call him in the morning? Or do you want the reality? Here, I gave the reasonably probable result given the circumstances based on my background and experience in matters of this sort.

You don't like my writing style, syntax, approach, perceived demeanor? I'm sorry - but the sensibilities of everyone are not the same. Many of these posts are just a series of personal attacks, and now people are trying to tell me how to post! Gee, thanks.

Please stick to the subject matter, not the poster.

Edited February 5, 2008 by tito

[StillThePrettiest 4]

I have not been aggressive, nor have I called names

you ask: 'Why is how I post, the content of my post, or the emotion or zeal behind my posts an issue at all?'

they are crucially important, because these things colour the extent of confidence one can have in the information given... I am an English teacher by profession, though I'm not working in that field at present, and have done countless classes on LANGUAGE: how the tone, words chosen, way of writing, expression, etc play a vital role in the meaning coming across to readers... if you are unaware of this, or even further, claim it not to be so, I am astounded

we would not trust a journalist who betrayed a personal bias at every turn; the same goes for situations like this... which is why I have been careful to use phrases like 'comes across' and 'seems like', in relation to your posts; I want to make the distinction between my opinion, and fact, which is a distinction you repeatedly fail to draw

as it seems to me, if someone's aim of posting here is truly to impart information, and be of assistance, and a number of people say that the manner in which they attempt to impart information and be of assistance results in the opposite of that, then I would think that the person would reconsider those aspects of their posting style; that's just common sense

if there's another aim, then they won't listen to anyone on that regard, and will continue to justify that they're right, and everyone else is wrong

(I note that once again your post largely defended the CONTENT of your posts - I specifically said, on more than one occasion, I was not debating that)

Edited February 5, 2008 by StillThePrettiest

[john_and_marlene 162]

More often than not, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck--it's a duck.

I'd rather someone pulled the fire alarm during a fire than have someone stand on the sideline and say how they hope everyone will be OK.