Hamas shut off the power to Palestine

[mawilson 2,133]

Wrong again. BTW in 1950 it was King Hussein not King Abdullah.

Oh boy. And you call yourself Jordanian.

Abdullah was the King of Jordan until 1951 when he was assassinated (by a Palestinian, no less.)

my bad...

IS that your only response to my entire post?

For now.... I'm tired.

[simple_male 1]

These pro-Israeli people will never understand, because they believe "might is right" principle.

History is against you. The muslims didn't exactly purchase that land from the jews to begin with. It was kind of taken forcefully.

Do you only study the anti-Israeli portions of history?

Did Arabs or Muslims kick Jews out of the Middle East? They were kicked out by Romans. Then when Crusaders were persecuting the Jews, they ran into Arab and Muslim lands for shelter. Jews lives peacefully in Arab lands, Muslim lands peacefully and they flourished at the same time with Muslims when Muslims civilization was at the peak in Spain.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Why is it never Hamas' fault. It's the Jew's, the Roman's and George Bush's but never Hamas' fault.

[♥JP♥ 5]

Why is it never Hamas' fault. It's the Jew's, the Roman's and George Bush's but never Hamas' fault.

I think we could ask you the same question. Why is it never Israel's fault? I have not seen anywhere in this thread where anyone here supported Hamas. You can't blame Hamas for something that happened in 1947. Several people here have pointed out that there is blame on BOTH sides yet you will not accept that your glorious Israel has done any wrong doing!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Why is it never Hamas' fault. It's the Jew's, the Roman's and George Bush's but never Hamas' fault.

I think we could ask you the same question. Why is it never Israel's fault? I have not seen anywhere in this thread where anyone here supported Hamas. You can't blame Hamas for something that happened in 1947. Several people here have pointed out that there is blame on BOTH sides yet you will not accept that your glorious Israel has done any wrong doing!

Hamas intentionally targets children and old people. Israel targets terrorists and occasionally hits civilians (probably set up as human shields by hamas).

Look. If you are not going to bad mouth a known terrorist group (Hamas) why would I badmouth a sovereign nation defending itself? Besides they are God's chosen people. Best not to piss off God.

[♥JP♥ 5]

Why is it never Hamas' fault. It's the Jew's, the Roman's and George Bush's but never Hamas' fault.

I think we could ask you the same question. Why is it never Israel's fault? I have not seen anywhere in this thread where anyone here supported Hamas. You can't blame Hamas for something that happened in 1947. Several people here have pointed out that there is blame on BOTH sides yet you will not accept that your glorious Israel has done any wrong doing!

Hamas intentionally targets children and old people. Israel targets terrorists and occasionally hits civilians (probably set up as human shields by hamas).

Look. If you are not going to bad mouth a known terrorist group (Hamas) why would I badmouth a sovereign nation defending itself? Besides they are God's chosen people. Best not to piss off God.

Show me where I supported Hamas? I have stated SEVERAL times that I don't support them. I have said BOTH sides are to blame. BOTH SIDES. History goes alot further than Hamas.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I'm glad you cleared that up. Hamas is worse IMO because they intentionally go after non-military targets. Israel is a tiny country surrounded by millions of Arabs that want them dead. I like an underdog.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm glad you cleared that up. Hamas is worse IMO because they intentionally go after non-military targets. Israel is a tiny country surrounded by millions of Arabs that want them dead. I like an underdog.

You're worse IMO because you can't see all sides of the picture and; goddamit, because you don't have a sense of humour about it

[♥JP♥ 5]

I'm glad you cleared that up. Hamas is worse IMO because they intentionally go after non-military targets. Israel is a tiny country surrounded by millions of Arabs that want them dead. I like an underdog.

You're worse IMO because you can't see all sides of the picture and; goddamit, because you don't have a sense of humour about it

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I'm glad you cleared that up. Hamas is worse IMO because they intentionally go after non-military targets. Israel is a tiny country surrounded by millions of Arabs that want them dead. I like an underdog.

You're worse IMO because you can't see all sides of the picture and; goddamit, because you don't have a sense of humour about it

You told me Lucky PWNED!!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I see that most of the regulars have been very busy in here. Except.... what has happened to "John Smith" ? Hmmmmm holidays in Sock Puppetville

OK let me respond, in order of appearance....

First up, as usual, Lucky Strike:

"The Palestinians are the most foreign-aid dependent society on earth."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0227/p17s01-cogn.html

U.S. taxpayers give Palestinians next to nothing. Rather we empower their oppressors.

American aid to Palestinians averages a total of about $85 million a year -- that comes out to about $21.25 per Palestinian per year. And there are stringent conditions on how it can be spent.

Let's compare that to how much the U.S. sends to Israel -- an average of $3 to $5 billion every year, most of it with no strings attached. No one really knows the exact figure -- it's funneled through so many difference devices, including military aid, military discounts, weapons development incentives, economic aid, low-interest loans (which in reality have the interest waived forever,) emergency aid, war on terror aid, extra-super-duper-special aid, whatever.

Israel is the single largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid, raking in more than 30% of our entire foreign aid budget. Israel receives more than sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean combined -- even though it's the 17th richest economy in the world.

And that's not even counting the protection money we pay on Israel's behalf -- $2 billion a year to Mubarak to keep the Egyptians on a leash, and the half billion a year to King Abdullah to keep the Jordanians in check.

But lowballing it at $3 billion a year directly to Israel -- that's $416 for every Israeli man woman and child. At what many estimate at more like $5 billion, that's almost $700 bucks each.

You like to sneer at Palestinians and their poverty. Of course, what has actually shattered the Palestinian economy are the colonialist actions and continuing oppression by the State of Israel -- the initial expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in 1948; the refusal to allow them to return to their homes and the appropriation of their property; and then all over again in 1967. Since then, the Palestinian economy has been shattered by the additional seizures of their property, ongoing destruction of their farms and businesses, closures, curfews, military "incursions," and the general interruption of their society -- the preventing of the function of government, public services, business, the educational system, etc.

Over the last few years there's been the additional problem of The Wall, which cuts off people from their fields, jobs, hospitals, schools and relatives. And all the while, Israel continues to transfer its own population into the occupied Palestinian territory -- building "Jewish-only" walled cities, served by "Jewish-only" superhighways, all protected by thousands of Israeli troops, and all on somebody's else's land. It's completely *illegal* under international law, and it's been going on in the West Bank and Gaza for the last 40 years, and intensified even further during the last 7 and a half.

Per person, Palestinians are living in near-starvation. The average person in the Occupied Territories is now subsisting on less than $2 per day, and with their water rationed to 1/4 or 1/5 the amount taken by illegal Israeli settlers next door to them . Meanwhile, food prices are comparatively high.

So I am not understanding your point, Lucky Strike -- does the thought that some Palestinian children might actually get a half a glass of milk a week -- does this somehow "outrage" you ?

And what do they do to say "Thanks!"? Launch rockets at civilians. Preferably children. Shame on them. Damn you hell Hamas.

Well, as I already pointed out, there's not too much for Palestinians to thank "us" for....

But as for "launching rockets at civilians" --

You keep repeating this line. But in fact, one can't even *aim* a Qassam rocket at all, much less aim it specifically "at children." It's essentially a crude pipe bomb that doesn't even have any kind of guidance system. Most of the rockets that have actually made it into Israel have either landed in unpopulated areas or caused only property damage -- even Israel's own Ministry of Defense has admitted that they're more of a psychological threat than physical.

Look at the numbers -- since Qassams were first launched in 2001, *13* civilians have been killed inside Israel (two of these deaths were Bedouin Arabs.) However, Israel has conducted a bloodbath in Gaza, slaughtering nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians, one quarter of them children.

It has been the overall pattern of the conflict -- the State of Israel has killed far more civilians than have Palestinian militants, and especially children, despite Israel's endless claims to perpetual victimhood as well as the moral high ground.

Totals 9/29/2000 - 12/31/2007

4396 Palestinians killed by IDF

1030 Israelis killed by Palestinians

867 Palestinian children killed by IDF

119 Israeli children killed by Palestinians

As Uri Avnery pointed out in his article, the Israeli objective in Gaza is something entirely different -- it is an effort to oust Hamas by holding the civilian population hostage. This is the textbook definition of terrorism:

terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence against people or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...-20/10020gl.htm

And before you start off on your pathetic "You Love Hamas" mantra again (as you do every time you're confronted with the facts) -- let me repeat it again: no one here has said it's "good" for militants to fire Qassams into Israel.

What has been pointed out -- over and over -- is that Israel's response to it has been absolutely appalling. Bombing civilian infrastructure, launching artillery fire into densely populated areas -- this is completely illegal under international law, and specifically violates the principles of distinction and proportionality. The fact that militants break the law does not give Israel an excuse to fire indiscriminately into civilians -- civilians who are prevented from evacuating -- and on a far more destructive scale.

Plus, this strategy doesn't even work. Israel's continuing actions to punish the general population only serves to increase support for Hamas, instead of weakening it.

Demeaning remarks like yours are a regular tactic used by defenders of Israel's policy -- it's an established pattern of trying to demonize, belittle, minimize (and at times, even categorically deny) the Palestinians as a people and as a society, or the idea that they have any rights at all -- especially in characterizing the entire population as part of, or collectively responsible for, the acts of a few militants. Thus, you rationalize, Israel must be excused for treating Palestinians like subhumans. But the fact is -- no more than a very small percentage of Palestinians are "terrorists" or even "militants," despite continuing attempts to blur those lines.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Idle chit chat WoM. Hamas is a terrorist organization and the Palestinians voted for them. Conclude what you want from that.

[simple_male 1]

I see that most of the regulars have been very busy in here. Except.... what has happened to "John Smith" ? Hmmmmm holidays in Sock Puppetville

OK let me respond, in order of appearance....

First up, as usual, Lucky Strike:

"The Palestinians are the most foreign-aid dependent society on earth."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0227/p17s01-cogn.html

U.S. taxpayers give Palestinians next to nothing. Rather we empower their oppressors.

American aid to Palestinians averages a total of about $85 million a year -- that comes out to about $21.25 per Palestinian per year. And there are stringent conditions on how it can be spent.

Let's compare that to how much the U.S. sends to Israel -- an average of $3 to $5 billion every year, most of it with no strings attached. No one really knows the exact figure -- it's funneled through so many difference devices, including military aid, military discounts, weapons development incentives, economic aid, low-interest loans (which in reality have the interest waived forever,) emergency aid, war on terror aid, extra-super-duper-special aid, whatever.

Israel is the single largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid, raking in more than 30% of our entire foreign aid budget. Israel receives more than sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean combined -- even though it's the 17th richest economy in the world.

And that's not even counting the protection money we pay on Israel's behalf -- $2 billion a year to Mubarak to keep the Egyptians on a leash, and the half billion a year to King Abdullah to keep the Jordanians in check.

But lowballing it at $3 billion a year directly to Israel -- that's $416 for every Israeli man woman and child. At what many estimate at more like $5 billion, that's almost $700 bucks each.

You like to sneer at Palestinians and their poverty. Of course, what has actually shattered the Palestinian economy are the colonialist actions and continuing oppression by the State of Israel -- the initial expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in 1948; the refusal to allow them to return to their homes and the appropriation of their property; and then all over again in 1967. Since then, the Palestinian economy has been shattered by the additional seizures of their property, ongoing destruction of their farms and businesses, closures, curfews, military "incursions," and the general interruption of their society -- the preventing of the function of government, public services, business, the educational system, etc.

Over the last few years there's been the additional problem of The Wall, which cuts off people from their fields, jobs, hospitals, schools and relatives. And all the while, Israel continues to transfer its own population into the occupied Palestinian territory -- building "Jewish-only" walled cities, served by "Jewish-only" superhighways, all protected by thousands of Israeli troops, and all on somebody's else's land. It's completely *illegal* under international law, and it's been going on in the West Bank and Gaza for the last 40 years, and intensified even further during the last 7 and a half.

Per person, Palestinians are living in near-starvation. The average person in the Occupied Territories is now subsisting on less than $2 per day, and with their water rationed to 1/4 or 1/5 the amount taken by illegal Israeli settlers next door to them . Meanwhile, food prices are comparatively high.

So I am not understanding your point, Lucky Strike -- does the thought that some Palestinian children might actually get a half a glass of milk a week -- does this somehow "outrage" you ?

And what do they do to say "Thanks!"? Launch rockets at civilians. Preferably children. Shame on them. Damn you hell Hamas.

Well, as I already pointed out, there's not too much for Palestinians to thank "us" for....

But as for "launching rockets at civilians" --

You keep repeating this line. But in fact, one can't even *aim* a Qassam rocket at all, much less aim it specifically "at children." It's essentially a crude pipe bomb that doesn't even have any kind of guidance system. Most of the rockets that have actually made it into Israel have either landed in unpopulated areas or caused only property damage -- even Israel's own Ministry of Defense has admitted that they're more of a psychological threat than physical.

Look at the numbers -- since Qassams were first launched in 2001, *13* civilians have been killed inside Israel (two of these deaths were Bedouin Arabs.) However, Israel has conducted a bloodbath in Gaza, slaughtering nearly 2000 Palestinian civilians, one quarter of them children.

It has been the overall pattern of the conflict -- the State of Israel has killed far more civilians than have Palestinian militants, and especially children, despite Israel's endless claims to perpetual victimhood as well as the moral high ground.

Totals 9/29/2000 - 12/31/2007

4396 Palestinians killed by IDF

1030 Israelis killed by Palestinians

867 Palestinian children killed by IDF

119 Israeli children killed by Palestinians

As Uri Avnery pointed out in his article, the Israeli objective in Gaza is something entirely different -- it is an effort to oust Hamas by holding the civilian population hostage. This is the textbook definition of terrorism:

terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence against people or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...-20/10020gl.htm

And before you start off on your pathetic "You Love Hamas" mantra again (as you do every time you're confronted with the facts) -- let me repeat it again: no one here has said it's "good" for militants to fire Qassams into Israel.

What has been pointed out -- over and over -- is that Israel's response to it has been absolutely appalling. Bombing civilian infrastructure, launching artillery fire into densely populated areas -- this is completely illegal under international law, and specifically violates the principles of distinction and proportionality. The fact that militants break the law does not give Israel an excuse to fire indiscriminately into civilians -- civilians who are prevented from evacuating -- and on a far more destructive scale.

Plus, this strategy doesn't even work. Israel's continuing actions to punish the general population only serves to increase support for Hamas, instead of weakening it.

Demeaning remarks like yours are a regular tactic used by defenders of Israel's policy -- it's an established pattern of trying to demonize, belittle, minimize (and at times, even categorically deny) the Palestinians as a people and as a society, or the idea that they have any rights at all -- especially in characterizing the entire population as part of, or collectively responsible for, the acts of a few militants. Thus, you rationalize, Israel must be excused for treating Palestinians like subhumans. But the fact is -- no more than a very small percentage of Palestinians are "terrorists" or even "militants," despite continuing attempts to blur those lines.

Thanks for sharing all info. Some people like LuckyStrike are blind and they will blindly support Israel. So they are blind. They seem to ignore the fact that Israeli occupation of Arab land does not exist. UN Resolution, international law do not support occupation, do not support settlement. President Carter said, "Israel has a choice to make, either build settlements, continue the occupation of Arab lands or make peace with Arab neighbors." Now, some don't like President Carter because he tells the truth. Jimmy Carter is the only US President who got a peace deal between Israel and Egypt. I hope, at least, one person will take a look at the Middle East Conflict with an open mind after reading your post. We should always stand for the truth and look for a just solution.

[mawilson 2,133]

They seem to ignore the fact that Israeli occupation of Arab land does not exist.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

They seem to ignore the fact that Israeli occupation of Arab land does not exist.

When was the last time a Jew strapped on a bomb and blew themselves up in a Palestinian market in protest?