is it meant to be?

[nursemate 0]

i've read that in order for a petitioner to file for K1 visa, one has to be a US citizen..is it true that if you obtained your citizenship thru marriage you cannot file for K1 visa?

My guy friend who got here thru K1 got his citizenship last year, he was divorced for more than 2 years now and is now in contact with an old lover from the Thailand. Can he petition her thru a K1 visa also? Im hoping he can have a happily ever after ending, coz hes quite annoying when he gets lonely you know!!

[pushbrk 12,105]

i've read that in order for a petitioner to file for K1 visa, one has to be a US citizen..is it true that if you obtained your citizenship thru marriage you cannot file for K1 visa?

My guy friend who got here thru K1 got his citizenship last year, he was divorced for more than 2 years now and is now in contact with an old lover from the Thailand. Can he petition her thru a K1 visa also? Im hoping he can have a happily ever after ending, coz hes quite annoying when he gets lonely you know!!

No, it is not true. It doesn't matter how one acquires their US Citizenship.

[YuAndDan 153]

Any US citizen can file an I-129F for a K-1 visa, it makes no difference how they acquired citizenship.

[chris4gretchen 1]

I have to admit that sounds like visa fraud so he might have a harder time with immigration filings. He came here on K1, got divorced but was able to stay to get his citizenship and now is wanting to bring his previous lover from Thailand here to the USA. That is a classic description of visa fraud. Hope things work out.

Chris

[rebeccajo 14]

I have to admit that sounds like visa fraud so he might have a harder time with immigration filings. He came here on K1, got divorced but was able to stay to get his citizenship and now is wanting to bring his previous lover from Thailand here to the USA. That is a classic description of visa fraud. Hope things work out.

Chris

He's a citizen now. His relationship will be 'put to the test' the same way yours or mine was.

[pushbrk 12,105]

I have to admit that sounds like visa fraud so he might have a harder time with immigration filings. He came here on K1, got divorced but was able to stay to get his citizenship and now is wanting to bring his previous lover from Thailand here to the USA. That is a classic description of visa fraud. Hope things work out.

Chris

He's a citizen now. His relationship will be 'put to the test' the same way yours or mine was.

Fiance(e) and spouse relationships are all put to a test of bona fides but the test questions vary widely based on individual relationships. I would expect increased scrutiny of this case at the Consulate level but probably not during the petition approval process.

Acquiring LPR status through marriage followed by divorce, naturalization and filing to bring former spouse or SO to the US is a common fraud scenario, so extra scrutiny of bona fides is warranted on that basis. Once a citizen, only the current relationship must pass any bona fide test. The original relationship is unlikely to be retested.

[rebeccajo 14]

I have to admit that sounds like visa fraud so he might have a harder time with immigration filings. He came here on K1, got divorced but was able to stay to get his citizenship and now is wanting to bring his previous lover from Thailand here to the USA. That is a classic description of visa fraud. Hope things work out.

Chris

He's a citizen now. His relationship will be 'put to the test' the same way yours or mine was.

Fiance(e) and spouse relationships are all put to a test of bona fides but the test questions vary widely based on individual relationships. I would expect increased scrutiny of this case at the Consulate level but probably not during the petition approval process.

Acquiring LPR status through marriage followed by divorce, naturalization and filing to bring former spouse or SO to the US is a common fraud scenario, so extra scrutiny of bona fides is warranted on that basis. Once a citizen, only the current relationship must pass any bona fide test. The original relationship is unlikely to be retested.

Thailand is tough enough on a regular basis.

I'd expect this petition to go through the same rigors any would.

[chris4gretchen 1]

I still stand by my post. They will look into his naturalization ( which is via K1) and they will look at the timelines in his past. I think his previous K1 naturalization will certainly cause extra scrutiny. Of course, RebeccaJ0 is always correct and i am always wrong. We are never with the same opinion.

Chris

[rebeccajo 14]

I still stand by my post. They will look into his naturalization ( which is via K1) and they will look at the timelines in his past. I think his previous K1 naturalization will certainly cause extra scrutiny. Of course, RebeccaJ0 is always correct and i am always wrong. We are never with the same opinion.

Chris

Oh, that's not so! I never said you were wrong anyway.

Look at it this way, Chris. He's a citizen. If the government is going to deny his g/f's visa, they are going to have to have as good an 'excuse' as they would for denying your girls. He's got the same rights and protections as any natural born US citizen.

You're probably thinking this guy's first marriage may have been fraudulent. It may well have been. Or his USC wife may have run off with the milkman. We just don't know. Whatever the case, the horse is sort of out of the barn so to speak......if it was fraud and his entire plan was to natz and get this new woman over here, so far it's working.

Conoffs can always apply 'totality of circumstance' to any decision they make. I really can't say with any certainty that they WON'T look at where his citizenship 'came from'. But he's got it. The government gave it to him and no CO on earth can use it 'against' him without fighting the Constitution while they are at it.

The visa application will have to stand alone just like any other. The couple involved (not the petitioner and his petitioning spouse before him) will be judged. If that weren't the case, what would you say about any USC who divorces and files for a foreign born person? Would you call that visa fraud too? Just think about it before you answer.

So if this petition is approved, a Conoff may very well deny the visa. But you can bet your bottom dollar 'visa fraud' won't be the notated reason. At least not based upon a prior fraud that has been blessed by naturalization.

Edited January 20, 2008 by rebeccajo

[sj5 4]

You can petition. Why would you petition for an ex- old relationship? anyone would doubt "visa fraud" after few years of your marriage with USC then you're going to petition your ex-relationship.

Edited January 21, 2008 by SJ

[pushbrk 12,105]

I still stand by my post. They will look into his naturalization ( which is via K1) and they will look at the timelines in his past. I think his previous K1 naturalization will certainly cause extra scrutiny. Of course, RebeccaJ0 is always correct and i am always wrong. We are never with the same opinion.

Chris

Oh, that's not so! I never said you were wrong anyway.

Look at it this way, Chris. He's a citizen. If the government is going to deny his g/f's visa, they are going to have to have as good an 'excuse' as they would for denying your girls. He's got the same rights and protections as any natural born US citizen.

You're probably thinking this guy's first marriage may have been fraudulent. It may well have been. Or his USC wife may have run off with the milkman. We just don't know. Whatever the case, the horse is sort of out of the barn so to speak......if it was fraud and his entire plan was to natz and get this new woman over here, so far it's working.

Conoffs can always apply 'totality of circumstance' to any decision they make. I really can't say with any certainty that they WON'T look at where his citizenship 'came from'. But he's got it. The government gave it to him and no CO on earth can use it 'against' him without fighting the Constitution while they are at it.

The visa application will have to stand alone just like any other. The couple involved (not the petitioner and his petitioning spouse before him) will be judged. If that weren't the case, what would you say about any USC who divorces and files for a foreign born person? Would you call that visa fraud too? Just think about it before you answer.

So if this petition is approved, a Conoff may very well deny the visa. But you can bet your bottom dollar 'visa fraud' won't be the notated reason. At least not based upon a prior fraud that has been blessed by naturalization.

I don't think there's any material disagreement here. How he got his citizenship is part of the totality of circumstances but "naturalization" vs "by birth" itself is not the issue. If the CO denies the visa, I agree "visa fraud" (really an umbrella term used in discusion, not noted as reason for denial) would not be noted. If the reason is related to anything already mentioned it would simply be noted that the CO determined the current relationship was entered into to secure an immigration benefit rather than to unite a bona fide husband and wife relationship. That's a specific form of visa fraud but the term itself used as the noted reason. Only if the current relationship weren't bona fide, would this occur. The former relationship is under the bridge provided it actually is. Part of any additional scrutiny could be to assure the recent divorce was also for real but that can happen when the recent divorce had nothing to do with a prior immigration case.

Coming from China, we see a lot of requests for SSN and verification of separate domicile regarding the recent USC divorce.

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't think there's any material disagreement here. How he got his citizenship is part of the totality of circumstances but "naturalization" vs "by birth" itself is not the issue. If the CO denies the visa, I agree "visa fraud" (really an umbrella term used in discusion, not noted as reason for denial) would not be noted. If the reason is related to anything already mentioned it would simply be noted that the CO determined the current relationship was entered into to secure an immigration benefit rather than to unite a bona fide husband and wife relationship. That's a specific form of visa fraud but the term itself used as the noted reason. Only if the current relationship weren't bona fide, would this occur. The former relationship is under the bridge provided it actually is. Part of any additional scrutiny could be to assure the recent divorce was also for real but that can happen when the recent divorce had nothing to do with a prior immigration case.

Coming from China, we see a lot of requests for SSN and verification of separate domicile regarding the recent USC divorce.

Right.

What's this SSN/domicile thing? I'm curious.

[Jason-Sasha 1]

It does certainly seem fishy. If I were an adjudicator it would send red flags up in my mind. For all we know this could have all been orchestrated long long ago. But seeing that he has already obtained citizenship, i doubt there's anything that could be done to prove it was fraudulent. Attract extra scrutiny, yes. Cause for K-1 denial, no. I do feel that there should be a mandatory waiting period before a new citizen can apply for a K1 for a fiancee back in the petitioner's old country. Say, 2 years or so. Might discourage anything illegal. Ah, who knows?

[pushbrk 12,105]

I don't think there's any material disagreement here. How he got his citizenship is part of the totality of circumstances but "naturalization" vs "by birth" itself is not the issue. If the CO denies the visa, I agree "visa fraud" (really an umbrella term used in discusion, not noted as reason for denial) would not be noted. If the reason is related to anything already mentioned it would simply be noted that the CO determined the current relationship was entered into to secure an immigration benefit rather than to unite a bona fide husband and wife relationship. That's a specific form of visa fraud but the term itself used as the noted reason. Only if the current relationship weren't bona fide, would this occur. The former relationship is under the bridge provided it actually is. Part of any additional scrutiny could be to assure the recent divorce was also for real but that can happen when the recent divorce had nothing to do with a prior immigration case.

Coming from China, we see a lot of requests for SSN and verification of separate domicile regarding the recent USC divorce.

Right.

What's this SSN/domicile thing? I'm curious.

A number of blue slips asking for additional evidence are asking for evidence the former spouses of the couple actually live somewhere else, including asking the USC to provide their former spouse's SSN. They actually look for a lease agreement or utility bill showing the divorced spouse lives elsewhere. The fraud scenario goes like this. The (usually low income with a recent divorce) USCs are paid to divorce so one can marry or become the fiance of the intending immigrant. After the green card is in hand, the original couple or both couples reunite with their original partners. This is a popular scam from the Fujian province but I've seen it suspected and investigated from other locations including my wife's home town in Guangxi province.

Thailand is not quite as bad about fraud as are China and the PI but much worse than most.

Nearly all who are asked for the former spouse info including SSN are totally appalled. Nevertheless, they either provide evidence to satisfy the request or face a NOID.

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't think there's any material disagreement here. How he got his citizenship is part of the totality of circumstances but "naturalization" vs "by birth" itself is not the issue. If the CO denies the visa, I agree "visa fraud" (really an umbrella term used in discusion, not noted as reason for denial) would not be noted. If the reason is related to anything already mentioned it would simply be noted that the CO determined the current relationship was entered into to secure an immigration benefit rather than to unite a bona fide husband and wife relationship. That's a specific form of visa fraud but the term itself used as the noted reason. Only if the current relationship weren't bona fide, would this occur. The former relationship is under the bridge provided it actually is. Part of any additional scrutiny could be to assure the recent divorce was also for real but that can happen when the recent divorce had nothing to do with a prior immigration case.

Coming from China, we see a lot of requests for SSN and verification of separate domicile regarding the recent USC divorce.

Right.

What's this SSN/domicile thing? I'm curious.

A number of blue slips asking for additional evidence are asking for evidence the former spouses of the couple actually live somewhere else, including asking the USC to provide their former spouse's SSN. They actually look for a lease agreement or utility bill showing the divorced spouse lives elsewhere. The fraud scenario goes like this. The (usually low income with a recent divorce) USCs are paid to divorce so one can marry or become the fiance of the intending immigrant. After the green card is in hand, the original couple or both couples reunite with their original partners. This is a popular scam from the Fujian province but I've seen it suspected and investigated from other locations including my wife's home town in Guangxi province.

Thailand is not quite as bad about fraud as are China and the PI but much worse than most.

Nearly all who are asked for the former spouse info including SSN are totally appalled. Nevertheless, they either provide evidence to satisfy the request or face a NOID.

Oh wow.

I was recently told about a popular scam in PI that doesn't involve immigration, but rather milking men for money. Apparently it's quite popular for a man to dress as a woman, and present himself that way on cam from an internet cafe. Allegedly these scammers do this with several 'boyfriends' at once - when one of the lovesick gentlemen from the US finally decides to meet his true love face to face, the 'woman' breaks it off with him, usually with the excuse of cold feet to move from her homeland. The poor dumb sucker on the other side of the cam is usually a few thousand short at this point, but the cash flow continues to the 'woman' from her other unaware victims.

I guess there's no lengths some will go to for money or for a greencard. Even though I know such things exist, it always amazes me to read of them. My personal experience is with a man from the UK - a developed country where they aren't beating a path to the airport to flee political oppression or poverty. So these stories are out of my realm of personal experience.

Thanks for the explanation.

Edited January 21, 2008 by rebeccajo