Schoolgirl Rape Victim Burned With Acid

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well call be disturbed, what have you. If someone raped and poured acid on a member of my family and I get there first, I will go Medieval on their ###. I'll go to work with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

I dunno if I would lay claim to what I would or wouldn't do under extreme circumstances - I don't think its clear-cut at all. I think to torture someone to death - regardless of whether you feel the person deserves it requires a state of mind so far removed from a normal psychology that if not disturbed before, would certainly be so afterwards.

[Peikko 1,575]

The real world doesn't need any more sadists than it already has.

Still, enjoy your vicarious revenge as you will.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Intentionally inflicting pain, injury, or death on a person is immoral regardless of what that person did. I find it scary how many people are proponents of "eye for an eye" justice. What happened to this poor girl is horrifying, but torturing her assailant(s), as some of you have suggested, is not the solution.

My previous stated observation was noting that some people simply won't be deterred. Death penalty, public hanging, electric chair, firing squad, torture--these do not deter everyone. Many criminals are mentally ill. Most people who commit crimes think that they won't get caught. Many don't think past the crime or consider consequences, particularly in crimes of passion or desperation.

Criminal justice is a much more complicated enterprise than "this person deserves to rot in hell for all eternity and experience the pain he has caused." That position simply helps no one, certainly not the victim.

Anyone who takes pleasure in the suffering of another, regardless of circumstances, is disturbed.

well that's all nice and wonderful, but how about coming back to the real world for a change?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...tal++punishment

Yes, I remember reading that thread. My argument stands.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Of course, I agree with you. Who knows what could really happen in any given set of circumstances at any given moment. Bu this could be my worst reaction if played it out in my mind.

Am I an animal? No... worse... Human!

Well call be disturbed, what have you. If someone raped and poured acid on a member of my family and I get there first, I will go Medieval on their ###. I'll go to work with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

I dunno if I would lay claim to what I would or wouldn't do under extreme circumstances - I don't think its clear-cut at all. I think to torture someone to death - regardless of whether you feel the person deserves it requires a state of mind so far removed from a normal psychology that if not disturbed before, would certainly be so afterwards.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

All true! But unfortunately, most people prefer to think with their gut on this one. This forum can sometimes show you the value of representative democracy when compared with true democracy.

Yes, that's certainly true. It's hard not to be emotional about heinous crimes you read about. I guess much of it is about rage. It is often rage that leads to terrible crimes, and rage is also at the root of the desire to be equally cruel to the perpetrator.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Well call be disturbed, what have you. If someone raped and poured acid on a member of my family and I get there first, I will go Medieval on their ###. I'll go to work with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.

Do you really think you'd feel like a million bucks afterwards?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course, I agree with you. Who knows what could really happen in any given set of circumstances at any given moment. Bu this could be my worst reaction if played it out in my mind.

Am I an animal? No... worse... Human!

Well hypothetically I could see myself making a similar claim if something like that happened to one of my relatives. Of course there is a difference to making the statement and actually following through on it. I think most people wouldn't... in the final analysis.. The way I see it I'd have more problems dealing with the fallout of the crime, not having to deal with legal and psychological consequences of going out for revenge.

I can understand crimes of passion where a person gets stabbed in the heat of anger, but to premeditate and go about methodically slicing pieces of someone - like those Al Qaeda beheading videos requires something else altogether. I can't say that's a place I'd want to visit.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Number 6

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I agree #6. For all I know, I'd get right to the point of blow torch flame making contact and that might be all she wrote. No more. But you just never know unless it truly happened.

Of course, I agree with you. Who knows what could really happen in any given set of circumstances at any given moment. Bu this could be my worst reaction if played it out in my mind.

Am I an animal? No... worse... Human!

Well hypothetically I could see myself making a similar claim if something like that happened to one of my relatives. Of course there is a difference to making the statement and actually following through on it. I think most people wouldn't... in the final analysis.. The way I see it I'd have more problems dealing with the fallout of the crime, not having to deal with legal and psychological consequences of going out for revenge.

I can understand crimes of passion where a person gets stabbed in the heat of anger, but to premeditate and go about methodically slicing pieces of someone - like those Al Qaeda beheading videos requires something else altogether. I can't say that's a place I'd want to visit.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I agree #6. For all I know, I'd get right to the point of blow torch flame making contact and that might be all she wrote. No more. But you just never know unless it truly happened.

Of course, I agree with you. Who knows what could really happen in any given set of circumstances at any given moment. Bu this could be my worst reaction if played it out in my mind.

Am I an animal? No... worse... Human!

Well hypothetically I could see myself making a similar claim if something like that happened to one of my relatives. Of course there is a difference to making the statement and actually following through on it. I think most people wouldn't... in the final analysis.. The way I see it I'd have more problems dealing with the fallout of the crime, not having to deal with legal and psychological consequences of going out for revenge.

I can understand crimes of passion where a person gets stabbed in the heat of anger, but to premeditate and go about methodically slicing pieces of someone - like those Al Qaeda beheading videos requires something else altogether. I can't say that's a place I'd want to visit.

I don't know if I'd even get to that point personally. I mean - you can only assume you'd have capacity and opportunity to take revenge. In reality you really wouldn't - so even if I were to think thoughts like that, they would be useless to me. Even if not - and to actually follow through on the thing - I still think it would be useless. Ultimately.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

True. Who knows for sure. But I can have an awfully wicked mind at times when it comes to acts like this. Do you combat fire with fire? Sometimes, yes, you do. Other times, well... some simple water is better.

I agree #6. For all I know, I'd get right to the point of blow torch flame making contact and that might be all she wrote. No more. But you just never know unless it truly happened.

Of course, I agree with you. Who knows what could really happen in any given set of circumstances at any given moment. Bu this could be my worst reaction if played it out in my mind.

Am I an animal? No... worse... Human!

Well hypothetically I could see myself making a similar claim if something like that happened to one of my relatives. Of course there is a difference to making the statement and actually following through on it. I think most people wouldn't... in the final analysis.. The way I see it I'd have more problems dealing with the fallout of the crime, not having to deal with legal and psychological consequences of going out for revenge.

I can understand crimes of passion where a person gets stabbed in the heat of anger, but to premeditate and go about methodically slicing pieces of someone - like those Al Qaeda beheading videos requires something else altogether. I can't say that's a place I'd want to visit.

I don't know if I'd even get to that point personally. I mean - you can only assume you'd have capacity and opportunity to take revenge. In reality you really wouldn't - so even if I were to think thoughts like that, they would be useless to me. Even if not - and to actually follow through on the thing - I still think it would be useless. Ultimately.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Noone seems to want to really tackle crime these days, only sweep up the broken pieces.

Nurturing...the best remedy. It won't stop all of it, but it begins at home.

Not really nurturing - but I think most crime thrives in areas of economic deprivation or as a result of poor standards of education. Investing in our social infrastructure is at least one way forward - but I suppose there's a reason why crappy areas stay crappy, despite the fact that there are elected officials who supposedly represent the people of those areas.

I disagree. Non-violent crime (stealing) perhaps, but violent behavior is a learned trait.

Sure - but these things are really connected. Tottenham where this story took place has a history of underfunding - I think because it falls between jurisdictions that disqualify it for inner city funding. It's no coincidence of course that it has a high crime level - IMO of course.

It also has a high immigrant population (mainly from Africa) - so there might be a cultural thing here too. Its not so simple as picking a cause and saying that's the answer - as this is how we end up with statements that suggest we can save society by implementing corporal punishment.

This stuff doesn't just happen because we don't have the DP, but it certainly isn't just happening because kids aren't getting enough hugs, either.

When it comes to violent behavior, short of some physiological disorder, it is a learned behavior which FBI profilers say can always be traced back to the primary caregivers. Nurturing is much more than hugs...it's what parenting is all about, IMO.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Noone seems to want to really tackle crime these days, only sweep up the broken pieces.

Nurturing...the best remedy. It won't stop all of it, but it begins at home.

Not really nurturing - but I think most crime thrives in areas of economic deprivation or as a result of poor standards of education. Investing in our social infrastructure is at least one way forward - but I suppose there's a reason why crappy areas stay crappy, despite the fact that there are elected officials who supposedly represent the people of those areas.

I disagree. Non-violent crime (stealing) perhaps, but violent behavior is a learned trait.

Sure - but these things are really connected. Tottenham where this story took place has a history of underfunding - I think because it falls between jurisdictions that disqualify it for inner city funding. It's no coincidence of course that it has a high crime level - IMO of course.

It also has a high immigrant population (mainly from Africa) - so there might be a cultural thing here too. Its not so simple as picking a cause and saying that's the answer - as this is how we end up with statements that suggest we can save society by implementing corporal punishment.

This stuff doesn't just happen because we don't have the DP, but it certainly isn't just happening because kids aren't getting enough hugs, either.

When it comes to violent behavior, short of some physiological disorder, it is a learned behavior which FBI profilers say can always be traced back to the primary caregivers. Nurturing is much more than hugs...it's what parenting is all about, IMO.

True - but I can't see that taking off as a practical solution to the country's social problems. You can't make people behave, and there will always be abusive folks having kids who really shouldn't. That said, if we're looking at youth gang-crime, it flourishes in typically low-income,. inner city areas. Not saying you're wrong about the nurturing, I mean you're not - but it could be seen as a bit mealy-mouthed when trying to address say crime arising out of urban inequalities. The social problems in those areas, IMO, are tied to the socioeconomic environment in those areas, as well as other factors.

[Ban Hammer 12,878]

Intentionally inflicting pain, injury, or death on a person is immoral regardless of what that person did. I find it scary how many people are proponents of "eye for an eye" justice. What happened to this poor girl is horrifying, but torturing her assailant(s), as some of you have suggested, is not the solution.

My previous stated observation was noting that some people simply won't be deterred. Death penalty, public hanging, electric chair, firing squad, torture--these do not deter everyone. Many criminals are mentally ill. Most people who commit crimes think that they won't get caught. Many don't think past the crime or consider consequences, particularly in crimes of passion or desperation.

Criminal justice is a much more complicated enterprise than "this person deserves to rot in hell for all eternity and experience the pain he has caused." That position simply helps no one, certainly not the victim.

Anyone who takes pleasure in the suffering of another, regardless of circumstances, is disturbed.

well that's all nice and wonderful, but how about coming back to the real world for a change?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...tal++punishment

Yes, I remember reading that thread. My argument stands.

as does mine. you can go argue with those who made that study i cited. furthermore i don't appreciate the comment towards those who want to see these individuals punished: "I find it scary how many people are proponents of "eye for an eye" justice."

how would you like it if i said anyone who dismisses capital punishment as a viable punishment is immoral?

[Nessa 23]

that's scary and so sad

[Peikko 1,575]

how would you like it if i said anyone who dismisses capital punishment as a viable punishment is immoral?

You'd get yourself tied up in terrible knots if you really did try to run with the 'capital punishment is the only moral punishment' argument. However, go on, let's see it. Of course, it'll just be, "because this study 'proves' that capital punishment reduces crime (which it doesn't) then it's immoral not to use it as a deterant" and leave it at that, which is a complete suck out.