Schoolgirl Rape Victim Burned With Acid

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

Which would land you in jail as well, clearly helping...um that would be no one, least of all your fictitious daughter.

jailed until parole, where they can go out and do it again. and no need to bring up kids now is there?

[Peikko 1,575]

No Chalres, I don't think the DP for rape would help at all. As I suggested, it's hard enough getting convictions for rape as it is. Bring the DP into the equation and less people will get put away, not more.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Which would land you in jail as well, clearly helping...um that would be no one, least of all your fictitious daughter.

How is my daughter fictitious?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You don't get the DP for rape. Which is just as well because it's hard enough to get convictions in rape cases at present, without all the rigmarole's that would ensue if rape was a DP offense. So no Charles, that really doesn't cut it.

As I mentioned - its irrelevant anyway as this took place in the UK, which doesn't have the DP - and hasn't had it since the 60's; and even if it did the law wouldn't be applicable for that crime, or for a 17 year old. In fact the last guy in the UK who was hanged (or at least one of the last, if I remember rightly) was apparently hanged for complicity in the shooting of a police officer. His 17 y/o partner in crime (who is the one who apparently did the deed) was actually given jail because he was too young.

Using a UK crime to further a political agenda about a policy issue over here seems tasteless to me - but apparently not to anyone else.

[Peikko 1,575]

Fictitious scenario. (which of course you realise)

You aren't going to be helping anyone by ending up in jail for inflicting the same kinds of injuries on someone who perpetrates a crime against your family. Your crime would be worse as it would be entirely pre meditated.

[Ban Hammer 12,901]

No Chalres, I don't think the DP for rape would help at all. As I suggested, it's hard enough getting convictions for rape as it is. Bring the DP into the equation and less people will get put away, not more.

so you say. it would certainly send a clear signal wouldn't it?

i'm still not understanding why you felt the need to bring my daughter into this conversation. shall we mention your son too?

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't think it's tasteless. It's not going to make any difference to the crime in question sure and rightly so. However, the principle of rape and the idea that the DP should be an option in the US, where the DP is an option for other crimes and debating the merits thereof is entirely appropriate seeing as most of us are in the US and not in the UK.

[Peikko 1,575]

Charles, please pay attention. Your daughter (who really doesn't exist as you don't have children) hasn't figured anywhere in this argument.

Alhamdulillah on the other hand did an 'if it where...then I would' argument. I suggested that 'if he did...then he would' in return. The fictitious ended up in the wrong part of my sentence, so sue me!

[Alhamdulillah 0]

Fictitious scenario. (which of course you realise)

You aren't going to be helping anyone by ending up in jail for inflicting the same kinds of injuries on someone who perpetrates a crime against your family. Your crime would be worse as it would be entirely pre meditated.

And the rape of this girl wasn't premeditated? They had the acid with them to cover it up, no?

[Mags 112]

Charles, please pay attention. Your daughter (who really doesn't exist as you don't have children)

Actually, I think Charles does have a daughter from a previous marriage, if I recall correctly.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Mags

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think it's tasteless. It's not going to make any difference to the crime in question sure and rightly so. However, the principle of rape and the idea that the DP should be an option in the US, where the DP is an option for other crimes and debating the merits thereof is entirely appropriate seeing as most of us are in the US and not in the UK.

True - but it seems rather silly to use this case as ammunition to futher a political movement in the US about how wacked out it is to oppose the DP. As if this crime could have somehow been prevented if the UK had never abolished the DP. I don't have my time machine - but it doesn't take much to figure out that horrible things happen to people regardless of what laws are on the books.

[Peikko 1,575]

I can't possibly know what was going on in the minds of the perpetrators of the crime in the UK, I don't have their thoughts in black and white, I do yours. In cold blood you are suggesting that it would be fitting for these criminals to be submitted to inhumane and barbaric treatment as suitable punishment. In reality, I doubt you would feel comfortable doing such a thing. At least one hopes you wouldn't because that makes you little better than those you wish to punish.

As to the Charles' daughter thing. If he does have a daughter from a previous marriage, then fine, he has a daughter. However at no point was I referring to him, his family or his daughter.

[Mags 112]

As to the Charles' daughter thing. If he does have a daughter from a previous marriage, then fine, he has a daughter. However at no point was I referring to him, his family or his daughter.

Oh I'm aware of that, I just mentioned it as a reason as to why he may have been more sensitive about this than normal.

[Alhamdulillah 0]

I can't possibly know what was going on in the minds of the perpetrators of the crime in the UK, I don't have their thoughts in black and white, I do yours. In cold blood you are suggesting that it would be fitting for these criminals to be submitted to inhumane and barbaric treatment as suitable punishment. In reality, I doubt you would feel comfortable doing such a thing. At least one hopes you wouldn't because that makes you little better than those you wish to punish.

I never used the words "in cold blood"

I, for one, am tired of my sisters in this country (and others) being raped repeatedly while their rapists get a little slap on the wrist and a few months, possibly years, in a prison (resort ), then being released to rape another one of my sisters. Because of that, I would not be opposed to much harsher punishments for this crime. If not feeling sorry for rapists, and insisting they be treated with kid gloves, makes me like them in your eyes, then I believe I am not the one in this discussion with the problem

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I can't possibly know what was going on in the minds of the perpetrators of the crime in the UK, I don't have their thoughts in black and white, I do yours. In cold blood you are suggesting that it would be fitting for these criminals to be submitted to inhumane and barbaric treatment as suitable punishment. In reality, I doubt you would feel comfortable doing such a thing. At least one hopes you wouldn't because that makes you little better than those you wish to punish.

I never used the words "in cold blood"

I, for one, am tired of my sisters in this country (and others) being raped repeatedly while their rapists get a little slap on the wrist and a few months, possibly years, in a prison (resort ), then being released to rape another one of my sisters. Because of that, I would not be opposed to much harsher punishments for this crime. If not feeling sorry for rapists, and insisting they be treated with kid gloves, makes me like them in your eyes, then I believe I am not the one in this discussion with the problem

I don't think its all that difficult to understand - you can punish people harshly, fine - and we can have a moral/ethical discussion over how a society should or shouldn't treat its offenders. But that doesn't answer why it is that so many folks latch onto cases like this and (through the stuff they say) convey a pretty distinct impression that they take the crime personally, and apparently enough to want to personally participate in violent punishments against the offender.

As I said - I think the vast majority of people saying that stuff amounts to little more than idle talk - shaking the fist at the offender, and it won't go further than that. I can understand that - but I honestly doubt most people, however angry they are about this or any other case, would be willing and have the capcity to go through with something like that - because to do so would require something that ordinary, law-abiding people don't really possess, but which the disturbed have in abundance - namely sociopathic tendencies.