Engagement Rings

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Lucky us!

My fiancée wanted nothing to do with a diamond ring. Primarily, she just considers they are gaudy and a waste of money. Secondly, she feels such a ring does not belong on city streets and she wanted to feel comfortable wearing her ring daily. She picked out a very practical yet beautiful ring. I know I would definitely be concerned about my fiancée having such a ring taken. I've yet to see a large diamond ring on the finger of any Russian lady in Kazan'. If you want to go big, maybe save it for Stateside to be on the save side.

I think your fiance and I are the only women on earth who dislike diamonds.

[Jason-Sasha 1]

Fat chicks rule! :lol: Sorry, just surprised the ring thread has become the fat chick thread. Its amusing actually.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

To add to Slim's great post, let me say this simply. Consider this comparison:

My Former American Wife:

Works 8 to 9 hours a day. Comes home routinely too tired to fix supper. Instead of cooking, brings home big bag of McDonald's or orders pizza. After supper sits on the coach and reads mail and then watches television. Children are expected to do most of the laundry and clean the kitchen since she worked all day.

My Russian Fiancée:

Works 9 to 10 hours a day. Comes home and fixes supper for the family, including her own parents. Has never brought home supper. (What drive-through? Even if there were, she'd never bring home this "not useful" food.) After supper will routinely go "on street" to walk or join her children in play. After they return, she puts them to bed and then does all the housework herself.

[Jason-Sasha 1]

To add to Slim's great post, let me say this simply. Consider this comparison:

My Former American Wife:

Works 8 to 9 hours a day. Comes home routinely too tired to fix supper. Instead of cooking, brings home big bag of McDonald's or orders pizza. After supper sits on the coach and reads mail and then watches television. Children are expected to do most of the laundry and clean the kitchen since she worked all day.

My Russian Fiancée:

Works 9 to 10 hours a day. Comes home and fixes supper for the family, including her own parents. Has never brought home supper. (What drive-through? Even if there were, she'd never bring home this "not useful" food.) After supper will routinely go "on street" to walk or join her children in play. After they return, she puts them to bed and then does all the housework herself.

Huge difference! Sounds like Alla needs a vacation .

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

I like the way she puts it, "Jeffery, I wait for our new life. Mine is so deeficult-!"

To add to Slim's great post, let me say this simply. Consider this comparison:

My Former American Wife:

Works 8 to 9 hours a day. Comes home routinely too tired to fix supper. Instead of cooking, brings home big bag of McDonald's or orders pizza. After supper sits on the coach and reads mail and then watches television. Children are expected to do most of the laundry and clean the kitchen since she worked all day.

My Russian Fiancée:

Works 9 to 10 hours a day. Comes home and fixes supper for the family, including her own parents. Has never brought home supper. (What drive-through? Even if there were, she'd never bring home this "not useful" food.) After supper will routinely go "on street" to walk or join her children in play. After they return, she puts them to bed and then does all the housework herself.

Huge difference! Sounds like Alla needs a vacation .

[Satellite 1]

My Former American Wife:

Works 8 to 9 hours a day. Comes home routinely too tired to fix supper. Instead of cooking, brings home big bag of McDonald's or orders pizza. After supper sits on the coach and reads mail and then watches television. Children are expected to do most of the laundry and clean the kitchen since she worked all day.

My Russian Fiancée:

Works 9 to 10 hours a day. Comes home and fixes supper for the family, including her own parents. Has never brought home supper. (What drive-through? Even if there were, she'd never bring home this "not useful" food.) After supper will routinely go "on street" to walk or join her children in play. After they return, she puts them to bed and then does all the housework herself.

Just make sure you are not doing what your former American wife was doing. Otherwise it won't be long before your Russian wife also gets fed up with her working "double" shifts (one at home and one at work).

Also some American women on VJ might find that what you are really looking for is a housekeeper / maid / cook / child care hand. And as far as I underatand, nobody workers harder at "work" then Americans. At least those folks who have worked both in Russia and the US tend to say we work harder here. So what your former wife was doing might be justifiable if she was really tired.

[eekee 182]

My Former American Wife:

Works 8 to 9 hours a day. Comes home routinely too tired to fix supper. Instead of cooking, brings home big bag of McDonald's or orders pizza. After supper sits on the coach and reads mail and then watches television. Children are expected to do most of the laundry and clean the kitchen since she worked all day.

My Russian Fiancée:

Works 9 to 10 hours a day. Comes home and fixes supper for the family, including her own parents. Has never brought home supper. (What drive-through? Even if there were, she'd never bring home this "not useful" food.) After supper will routinely go "on street" to walk or join her children in play. After they return, she puts them to bed and then does all the housework herself.

Just make sure you are not doing what your former American wife was doing. Otherwise it won't be long before your Russian wife also gets fed up with her working "double" shifts (one at home and one at work).

Also some American women on VJ might find that what you are really looking for is a housekeeper / maid / cook / child care hand. And as far as I underatand, nobody workers harder at "work" then Americans. At least those folks who have worked both in Russia and the US tend to say we work harder here. So what your former wife was doing might be justifiable if she was really tired.

American women don't do everything like Russian women do because we don't have to. Russian men are generally raised by mothers who do everything for them, thus it's expected of their wives. I suppose that single mothers generally do as much as Alla does, but if i were married and working and my husband refused to help with the cooking or cleaning, he wouldn't have a wife for very long.

Edited January 21, 2008 by eekee

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Well I am hardly looking for a housekeeper. Those examples are from now, as it this day. When I was married to my former wife, I did a healthy amount of the chores, same when I lived in Kazan' with Alla. I am comparing two women living without men at the present.

As for "Harder working Americans"... Very subjective! I've seen road crews in Russia sweating their rears off for 8 hours, all working, and then I see 5 Americans following one guy with a shovel here.

My Former American Wife:

Works 8 to 9 hours a day. Comes home routinely too tired to fix supper. Instead of cooking, brings home big bag of McDonald's or orders pizza. After supper sits on the coach and reads mail and then watches television. Children are expected to do most of the laundry and clean the kitchen since she worked all day.

My Russian Fiancée:

Works 9 to 10 hours a day. Comes home and fixes supper for the family, including her own parents. Has never brought home supper. (What drive-through? Even if there were, she'd never bring home this "not useful" food.) After supper will routinely go "on street" to walk or join her children in play. After they return, she puts them to bed and then does all the housework herself.

Just make sure you are not doing what your former American wife was doing. Otherwise it won't be long before your Russian wife also gets fed up with her working "double" shifts (one at home and one at work).

Also some American women on VJ might find that what you are really looking for is a housekeeper / maid / cook / child care hand. And as far as I underatand, nobody workers harder at "work" then Americans. At least those folks who have worked both in Russia and the US tend to say we work harder here. So what your former wife was doing might be justifiable if she was really tired.

[mox 298]

Yeah, I'm actually surprised someone from one of the other regional forums hasn't stepped in and ranted about how we're all looking for housekeepers and sex slaves.

In my case, my ex did more than 50% of the house work, and she resented it. Never mind that I worked 12 hour days to her 8 hour days, or that when I did try to make her happy by picking up my so-called slack that it either went completely unnoticed or she'd just find something else to be unhappy about. And I believe that one of the biggest things that made her unhappy is that she couldn't decide whether she wanted to take on a more traditional role or if she wanted to wear the pants in the family. It made it confusing for both of us. One day she wanted to be "liberated," and the next she wanted to be Suzie-homemaker. And then the next day she wanted to be a tramp, but that's really a whole 'nuther story.

I don't want a maid or a sex slave. Okay, I wouldn't say no to either one of those quite frankly , but that's not what my current relationship is about. I know my girl is happy and secure in a traditional role. I also know that "traditional role" doesn't mean I sit and watch TV while she's cleaning the house, but it also means she's not going to fume about having to clean or do the shopping by herself just because I'm working late.

And whereas my ex-wife didn't put a lot of effort into making herself look nice because it was too much trouble, I appreciate the fact that Nadya *wants* to go to that trouble. (Heck, it makes me want to go to the extra trouble to look good for her.) She likes to look beautiful for me, but she doesn't do it *for* me. She feels secure in her gender, secure in her role, and doesn't feel like she has to prove herself "equal" to men.

If a woman wants to take on the traditional male role, fine. But she needs to find herself a partner who can compliment that role, and not work against it. This whole ####### about marriage being 50/50 is just that, #######. Marriage isn't about 50/50, it's about each partner taking on a role that makes the relationship work. I may do less laundry, but I might do more work to bring in the money. I might not make the bed every morning, but I do keep the car running. It's all apples and oranges though, so you can't keep score and decide that one partner is only doing 48% while the other is stuck doing 52%. You do what makes the relationship work. I think American women in general have unknowingly abandoned this concept in their quest to be "equal." I agree that women have historically been given the short end of the stick and that most of their criticisms are still valid to this day. But so many women have confused role with oppression. FSU women, on the other hand, seem to understand the concept. They're just like American women in that if you abuse the balance of the relationship they're going to be just as unhappy as an American woman would be. But if you're filling the obligations of your role, then they feel absolutely no need to step over that line into your role.

Caveat: Obviously we're not living together just yet, so my viewpoint may need a little tweaking in a few months. But in talking with my SO and others, it seems about right to me.

[Buck and Natalia 0]

In my case, my ex did more than 50% of the house work, and she resented it. Never mind that I worked 12 hour days to her 8 hour days, or that when I did try to make her happy by picking up my so-called slack that it either went completely unnoticed or she'd just find something else to be unhappy about. And I believe that one of the biggest things that made her unhappy is that she couldn't decide whether she wanted to take on a more traditional role or if she wanted to wear the pants in the family. It made it confusing for both of us. One day she wanted to be "liberated," and the next she wanted to be Suzie-homemaker. And then the next day she wanted to be a tramp, but that's really a whole 'nuther story.

If a woman wants to take on the traditional male role, fine. But she needs to find herself a partner who can compliment that role, and not work against it. This whole ####### about marriage being 50/50 is just that, #######. Marriage isn't about 50/50, it's about each partner taking on a role that makes the relationship work. I may do less laundry, but I might do more work to bring in the money. I might not make the bed every morning, but I do keep the car running. It's all apples and oranges though, so you can't keep score and decide that one partner is only doing 48% while the other is stuck doing 52%. You do what makes the relationship work. I think American women in general have unknowingly abandoned this concept in their quest to be "equal." I agree that women have historically been given the short end of the stick and that most of their criticisms are still valid to this day. But so many women have confused role with oppression. FSU women, on the other hand, seem to understand the concept. They're just like American women in that if you abuse the balance of the relationship they're going to be just as unhappy as an American woman would be. But if you're filling the obligations of your role, then they feel absolutely no need to step over that line into your role.

Caveat: Obviously we're not living together just yet, so my viewpoint may need a little tweaking in a few months. But in talking with my SO and others, it seems about right to me.

Strange Mox....... I think maybe we were married to the same woman...... except for the tramp part. I concur with you regarding roles. I think American women have been totally mind-f***ked regarding their roles. Because of this they seem neither happy at home nor at work.

[slim 1,514]

I like the way she puts it, "Jeffery, I wait for our new life. Mine is so deeficult-!"

Which means she is looking forward to dropping some of her current responsibilities and expecting you to pick up some of the slack.

Just make sure you are not doing what your former American wife was doing. Otherwise it won't be long before your Russian wife also gets fed up with her working "double" shifts (one at home and one at work).

Also some American women on VJ might find that what you are really looking for is a housekeeper / maid / cook / child care hand. And as far as I underatand, nobody workers harder at "work" then Americans. At least those folks who have worked both in Russia and the US tend to say we work harder here. So what your former wife was doing might be justifiable if she was really tired.

Satellite makes a good point above. My Russian wife now sees it something like this; she must work at work and then must work at home. I don't think she had to work quite as hard before and now that she is doing "work" at work, coming home to a messy apartment doesn't make her feel any more womanly that she has to clean up this place too. It makes her feel mad at her lazy husband. Nevermind the fact that he's working to pay the bills, he should be doing his part and taking the stress off his wife. She's not roommate, she's wife.

So, the traditional role of "homemaker after work" when your Russian lady arrives here may change a little after she works at her American job for a while. Be prepared to do the dishes, laundry, vacuum, mop the floor (again because you f--k up and not do right) and all of the other "work" that your lady took a lot of pride in doing back home. Now that she's here and "working" she may not want to do that stuff so much anymore.

I'll be the first to say that for her to get me to do those things it's like pulling teeth because, unlike the rest of the guys, I do want a maid and sex slave (not that I'm really expecting to get it, but that's what I wish for) and I look at it like if I'm going to pay all the bills, she should do all the housework. (And give up the booty!) However, I'm learning that even though I pay all the bills, I'm nowhere near rich enough to afford a maid and/or sex slave and as long as she's working too, I'm the one that's probably going to be the maid, and if I'm lucky, the sex slave. (Not in a submissive, apple in the mouth kind of way, just in the "I'm married so I finally got some this weekend" kind of way.)

American women don't do everything like Russian women do because we don't have to. Russian men are generally raised by mothers who do everything for them, thus it's expected of their wives. I suppose that single mothers generally do as much as Alla does, but if i were married and working and my husband refused to help with the cooking or cleaning, he wouldn't have a wife for very long.

My wife has now assimilated into this American school of (female) thought. She's quoted that last line plenty of times. It seems the "working" part is what has helped her adopt this new ideology. In Russia, regardless of how much "work" a woman does at work, she's still expected to do the "woman's work" at home. Here, that went out the door when the women started going to work. And dare I say, most of you who don't have your wives, girlfriends here and working, once they do, that "Russian woman" ideology of doing all the work at home will also morph into that "American woman" school of thought. "You better pull your own weight you SOB. You're not the only one working around here. Do your job at home or else you can find a new home." (Said with a nice accent, of course.)

Yeah, I'm actually surprised someone from one of the other regional forums hasn't stepped in and ranted about how we're all looking for housekeepers and sex slaves.

In my case, my ex did more than 50% of the house work, and she resented it. Never mind that I worked 12 hour days to her 8 hour days, or that when I did try to make her happy by picking up my so-called slack that it either went completely unnoticed or she'd just find something else to be unhappy about.

If a woman wants to take on the traditional male role, fine. But she needs to find herself a partner who can compliment that role, and not work against it. This whole ####### about marriage being 50/50 is just that, #######. Marriage isn't about 50/50, it's about each partner taking on a role that makes the relationship work.

Caveat: Obviously we're not living together just yet, so my viewpoint may need a little tweaking in a few months. But in talking with my SO and others, it seems about right to me.

Mox, I cut out some of that simply to save space but that whole post summed it up pretty well. I agree 100% that marriage isn't 50/50. It's "you do your part and I'll do mine." But, those parts get somewhat confused and when she starts "working" then she's going to inform you of your new role. Your part will change.

I don't understand why my part has to change. I didn't change anything. I'm still the primitive fat man she married. Why don't I clean the cat litter box? Because I didn't want to get cats in the first place because I knew they eat and $#!T and I don't like cleaning litter boxes so therefore I didn't have cats before you got here. You wanted cats, you clean the $#!T. Why don't I do dishes? Because I know better than to cook and make a mess. When you eat McDonalds, there's no mess! Why don't I get down on my hands and knees and mop the floor? Because I USED TO WEAR MY SHOES IN HERE and they tracked OUT all the mess!!!

How did I ever get by without her?

Strange Mox....... I think maybe we were married to the same woman...... except for the tramp part. I concur with you regarding roles. I think American women have been totally mind-f***ked regarding their roles. Because of this they seem neither happy at home nor at work.

And that's why you're better off "doing your part" at home after she starts working. Funny how happy she is to do everything while you're out supporting the family and she's sitting at home but once she works, you better start pulling your own weight and doing all the "extra" stuff that she had to do for you. (Even if it wasn't your idea. I didn't want to get two cats!)

Guys... you can't win. Russian, American, I've found out now, a year down the road, this is one area that it doesn't really matter. You're going to be wrong and you're going to be expected to do some of the work. Even if you fight it (like I do) it's going to be easier, and quieter, to just do it. I would type some more, but I've got laundry to do, rugs to beat, groceries to by and I have to work all night long. It's so hard working and doing all this housework too. But, it's got to be 50/50 or else you just live with a roommate, not a wife.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Oh no doubt, Slim! But a little differently than you might be thinking. We've discussed it many times. Her biggest gripes are these...

Sharing a bedroom with her mother and children; Feeling obligated to entertain her mom each night in conversation; Having to go on beer or smoke runs for her father; Having to listen to her parents quarrel when she wants a quiet night; Being a referee, sometimes, for the former; Being expected to be there for all three generations each and every day; Never having any privacy.

She really has no complaints about housekeeping, cooking, what have you. She appreciates it when I do the laundry, dishes, cleaning up, but this are not what she considers difficult. It really boils down to wanting to have a little elbow room. Personal space and the freedom to run her own household would give my Alla a lot of peace.

I like the way she puts it, "Jeffery, I wait for our new life. Mine is so deeficult-!"

Which means she is looking forward to dropping some of her current responsibilities and expecting you to pick up some of the slack.

[Chuckles 0]

Slim, I don't know If I have related to any post in the Russian forum more then this one. However, I didn't have any other expectation after my wife started working in the US. I had no delusions about her being "Russian" and that somehow "trumped" her womenly instincts. She works and brings home a paycheck just like me.

Yah, I ###### and moan about the housework I have to do, but I do it. I married my wife for a reason, so I will sacrifice some of my mascaline dignity for her. I don't think it would be different for any other woman from any country.

Now, as far as the other failed marriages mentioned here, I think it was because you really noticed these 'extra' chores that you did because of other reasons. I could speculate what those reasons where, but I think you get the idea. Anyway I am sure (or at least hope) you will be happy in your marriages, and not notice that you are still doing lots of the same things that you did when you were with your old "American wives"

[mox 298]

For me it boiled down to this: Going the extra mile for my ex-wife provided almost nothing in return. And if I did it "wrong" then it actually turned into a net loss. Consequently I lost all incentive to do anything but the basics because it just wasn't worth the grief.

If I can find myself in a relationship where my efforts are appreciated, then hot damn. I won't even mind doing more than my so-called fair share (to a point of course). I'll keep the car running *and* wash the dishes if it means being appreciated. And if both of us have that mentality, then it pretty much turns into the relationship equivalent of a perpetual motion machine.

And by appreciated I mean sex. But then you already knew that.

(Okay yes I mean more than just sex, but I thought it would be a funny line. 10,000 chameleons out of work and I gotta change colors...)

[slim 1,514]

She really has no complaints about housekeeping, cooking, what have you. She appreciates it when I do the laundry, dishes, cleaning up, but this are not what she considers difficult. It really boils down to wanting to have a little elbow room. Personal space and the freedom to run her own household would give my Alla a lot of peace.

I know where she's coming from, and that's why I don't live in my dad's basement anymore!

It is fun to set up "your family" once the two of you (and kids) finally live together in "your" house. But, even if she does most of the work, and enjoys it, she'll still be sure to assign you "your" chores.

Slim, I don't know If I have related to any post in the Russian forum more then this one. However, I didn't have any other expectation after my wife started working in the US. I had no delusions about her being "Russian" and that somehow "trumped" her womenly instincts. She works and brings home a paycheck just like me.

That's where I believe my own problems came about. I did have expectations and those were definitely not played out the way I thought they were going to be. My buddy says it's like the election. "See, she made all these campaign promises, and now that she's in office, she doesn't think it's necessary to deliver anymore... she's already been elected." (He's was actually talking about his wife and referencing oral sex and various other "awesome" things she used to do while they were dating that have since ceased after marriage.)

I had the expectation that since she "enjoyed" doing the housework and "was supporting me while I was working" that she would continue to do it even once she started working. Afterall, it's a Russian woman's job to take care of the house. Man must work and take care about car and other "man jobs" etc.

To be honest though, I think it's more about reciprocity than anything else. She comes home from work, tired from cooking and cleaning at the restaurant and sees my fat @$$ on VJ sitting around doing nothing when there's work to be done. Instead of her "enjoying" doing it like she did before, it now becomes "why I must do everything when you do nothing, blat?" The current reasoning behind the recent necessity of me helping out more is that she has to do similar "work" at her job and when she comes home she's tired of doing this kind of stuff and since I do nothing, I should be helping her. So, we'll see if she goes back to "enjoying" all of the housework when she switches jobs and starts answering the phone for a living. If I were a wagering man.....

Yah, I ###### and moan about the housework I have to do, but I do it. I married my wife for a reason, so I will sacrifice some of my mascaline dignity for her. I don't think it would be different for any other woman from any country.

I differ here as well. I specifically chose a foreign bride because of the commonly held belief that they must do "woman jobs" around the house and would fill a more traditional role at home. I wanted that in a wife. If I would've wanted a woman that made me do most of the housework, I could've found plenty of them here at home. Sure, there are women here that do everything, but it's not a commonly held belief that it's still "their" job to do it. They do it because they have the freedom to do it and choose to; i.e. stay-at-home mom, housewife, part-time employment, etc. Almost every foreign woman I've known has said "woman must do woman jobs."

Now, as far as the other failed marriages mentioned here, I think it was because you really noticed these 'extra' chores that you did because of other reasons. I could speculate what those reasons where, but I think you get the idea. Anyway I am sure (or at least hope) you will be happy in your marriages, and not notice that you are still doing lots of the same things that you did when you were with your old "American wives"

Very true. You just choose to overlook what you're doing now because of something in another area. I know women here who would love to do everything for their guy. EVERYTHING. Yet they can't seem to keep a guy because even though they take care of him in one aspect, they don't take care of him in another. And if you look at failed marriages, past relationships, etc., you'll see that if one area wasn't all the way up to your liking, it was probably because other areas were as well. You hated doing the dishes because you hated seeing her sit there watching Oprah two hours before.

Now, you'll do the dishes (still hate it) but don't really mind because even though it pisses you off that you had to do the dishes, at least you'll be able to enjoy watching American Gladiators together; she hates Oprah.

For me it boiled down to this: Going the extra mile for my ex-wife provided almost nothing in return. And if I did it "wrong" then it actually turned into a net loss. Consequently I lost all incentive to do anything but the basics because it just wasn't worth the grief.

If I can find myself in a relationship where my efforts are appreciated, then hot damn. I won't even mind doing more than my so-called fair share (to a point of course). I'll keep the car running *and* wash the dishes if it means being appreciated. And if both of us have that mentality, then it pretty much turns into the relationship equivalent of a perpetual motion machine.

And by appreciated I mean sex. But then you already knew that.

Relationships, like all other things in life, are risk/reward. Too many people sugar-coat them as "finding happiness" and "being truly blessed" and other romantic garbage. Plain and simple, if you get out as much or more than what you're willing to put in, than you (and your partner too) will stay in a relationship, even a marriage.

You will do things you hate if it means getting things you really like. And when you get things you really like, looking back on the things you hate, they don't really seem all that bad. But only afterward. Not before, and certainly not during!