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Fiance' Visa Denied!

#16 fred n Dao Honey

fred n Dao Honey

    Member

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 05:32 AM

QUOTE (MichaelAndKha @ Oct 20 2009, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My fiance just got a letter from the US Consulate in Vietnam. It's a blue document and they denied her a visa.

Several reasons they stated:

- Photographs submitted as evidence of the relationship indicates that we only spent one or two days together.
This is not true, we actually spent 5 days together out of the 7 days I was in Vietnam during my first trip.

- Beneficiary and petitioner submitted no evidence of any engagement celebration. This contradicts social and cultural norms in which many family members and friends, including those in the US, are invited to engagement celebrations numbering in the hundreds of guest for families of even modest means. Together with other factors, this has been established as one of the key elements of a sham relationship to evade US immigration laws.
We did in fact have the Dam Hoi (engagement ceremony) last month, but it was too late to submit this as evidence since the case was already under review. I even went to the US Consular office in Vietnam and spoke to the officer several days before our Dam Hoi was to take place. I told him about our upcoming celebration and he made a note of it. I asked him if there is anything else I can provide as evidence. He said "No, there is nothing else we need from you. We will notify you and your fiance when the case has been processed." That was basically it.

- Beneficiary is unable to provide basic facts (such as ceremony, manner of celebration, venue, guests or approximate costs) regarding the claimed planned marriage in the US. It appears that the relationship is a sham or that Beneficiary has no actual intent to marry within 90 days of admission to the US. Furthermore, Beneficiary stated that she and petitioner have no planned Honeymoon.
I did already give some facts about our wedding ceremony that would take place even though it wasn't specific. I didn't know they were so picky about this, jeez.


This whole thing makes me upset and frustrated. I'm going to make a rebuttal claim with USCIS as soon as a I hear from them.

Has anybody here gone through the same thing or similar?

My fiance gave me this link to an article which can give more insight about visa denials.

I'm still in a state of confusion blink.gif

Michael

Sorry to hear your news and welcome to VJ. We just recieved approval (pink slip) a few days ago after a long wait. 9 months.

The original K-1 Visa application expires at 6 months from the date it was approved by UCIS. You should have a letter stating this. You can refile a K-1 and get all your things in order. You can even refile while you are appealing the first one. I have learned you will be sucessful if all your information is in order. I am sure many of us were very naive about the process when we first started. You must educate yourself. Come online here often and you will get some good information. Some good laughs too!

It is never to late to add more evidence of a relationship. I have done it and they did look at it. Anyone in AP or anytime during the processing in HCMC can add evidence by Certified mail or in person between 1 and 3pm at the consulate. The fiance can add more evidence at the outside window or as long as she keeps the blue or white paper she can enter between 1 and 3. (do not give them the blue or white paper after entering it is here pass to enter again, place it out of site and have case number with birthdates available). I have added more evidence in the morning and during the evening. They say they don't need because they want to close the case. Any time more evidence is added they MUST consider it. Also it gives them the ability to justify not making a decision and make you wait more. They must take it. It is your case and if you read the bottom of the Consulate request for more information sheets it actually warns you about not taking action.

When Dao took in more evidence they said they don't need it. She told them "My Fred said you have to it's the law". They took it. 2 inches of chat logs. Each piece of evidence we submited, after they did not need more, was not in the original condition that we submited.

Good luck to all
Fred


  • 0
Good luck to all,
Fred



If you can't do what you want to do, do what you can do.

#17 kabhatti

kabhatti

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 08:49 AM

I would get a hold of your US Senator and or Congressman and get them involved ASAP
  • 0

129F 2009-10-20
I-129F NOA1 : 2009-10-26
I-129F RFE(s) : none
RFE Reply(s) :
I-129F NOA2 : 2009-12-29
NVC Received : 2010-01-10
NVC Left : 2010-01-10
Consulate Received : 2010-01-21
Packet 3 Received : 2010-01-21
Packet 3 Sent : 2010-02-06
Packet 4 Received : 2010-02-13
Interview Date : 2010-03-08 Approved
Visa Received : 2010-03-24
US Entry : 2010-04-12

Adjustment of Status CIS Office : Philadelphia PA
Date Filed : 2010-06-18 NOA Date : 2010-06-24
RFE(s) : 2010-07-13 CS forgot to sign form I-693
Reply sent July 23 Biometrics Appt. : 2010-07-08 Walk In Successful
Case Transferred to CSC on August 19, 2010
Advance Parole, August 20, 2010 according to Website
Employment Authorization Card/ Document Production ordered August 19, 2010
Touched again, EAD CARD ordered August 24, 2010
Case now transferred to USCIS office and being processed as of August 26, 2010 (guess this is a touch)
EAD Card Received August 30, 2010
Green Card Received October 7, 2010

Filed I-751 on July 20, 2012 Check for $590 Cashed on or about July 26, 2012
NOA1, July 24, Green Card Extended for 1 year
Biometrics Appointment August 24, 2012 Walk In Biometrics August 13, 2012
10 year green card approved March 21, 2013 (lifting of conditions) Green Card Received March 28, 2013

 

Naturalization N-400 Filed July 2, 2013 sent to Dallas, Tx

Oath taken Nov. 22, 2013 USA citizen and passport 


#18 JimVaPhuong

JimVaPhuong

    Does this 嫪 d跬 make me look fat?



Posted 21 October 2009 - 10:23 AM

We don't know all the details, so we can only comment on what has been said, and speculate on the rest. No point in repeating what you already now know, like HCM is a tough consulate, blah blah blah. There's plenty to read in the regional forum about other people's experiences, and all the common red flags.

So, do you know for certain that your petition is being sent back to USCIS? Is it still awaiting review by the Chief Consul? The reason I ask is because if there's any chance you can keep the petition at the consulate you'll have much better chance of getting this resolved much sooner. If you think your petition is still at the consulate then get a lawyer fast. You cited an excellent article by Marc Ellis - he is undoubtedly more experienced with the consulate in HCM than any other attorney in the world, with the bonus that he lives and works in HCM.

http://www.marcellislaw.com/

It's rumored that the consular officers in HCM really don't like him, and that's a good reputation to have in the field of immigration law.

If your petition is definitely going back to USCIS then you may have a long wait. It's even possible you may not get a chance to submit your rebuttal. The first time you hear from USCIS it might be a notice informing you that your petition has expired, and you can submit another one. This puts you back at square one with the caveat that you already have a strike against you at the consulate. If you DO end up getting a NOID or NOIR from USCIS, be absolutely sure you respond to it, as Marc's article recommends. You need to do this even if you have decided to get married and pursue a CR1, and just abandon the K1 petition. If you don't, you risk having a finding of "material misrepresentation" entered against your fiancee, which you won't learn about until she shows up for her next interview and is told she's been banned from the US.

Ok, on to specific comments about why you were denied...

QUOTE (MichaelAndKha @ Oct 20 2009, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
- Photographs submitted as evidence of the relationship indicates that we only spent one or two days together.
This is not true, we actually spent 5 days together out of the 7 days I was in Vietnam during my first trip.


How many times had you been to Vietnam when you submitted the petition? Was it only one time? Honestly, 5 days is pretty much the same as 1 or 2 days, as far as the consulate is concerned. They draw this conclusion based on photographs when many of the photos look like they were taken on the same day, and you and your fiancee are wearing the same clothes.

The consulate is supposed to use the "reasonable person" standard when judging whether they believe a relationship is sincere. In other words, would a reasonable person believe the relationship based on the evidence presented. A "reasonable person" would usually not have a problem believing that two people could sincerely decide to marry after months of correspondence, and a few days spent together. The standard used by the consulate in HCM is probably closer to the "reasonable CO" standard - is the couple barely meeting the minimum requirements, which would be typical in a sham relationship?

QUOTE (MichaelAndKha @ Oct 20 2009, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
- Beneficiary and petitioner submitted no evidence of any engagement celebration. This contradicts social and cultural norms in which many family members and friends, including those in the US, are invited to engagement celebrations numbering in the hundreds of guest for families of even modest means. Together with other factors, this has been established as one of the key elements of a sham relationship to evade US immigration laws.
We did in fact have the Dam Hoi (engagement ceremony) last month, but it was too late to submit this as evidence since the case was already under review. I even went to the US Consular office in Vietnam and spoke to the officer several days before our Dam Hoi was to take place. I told him about our upcoming celebration and he made a note of it. I asked him if there is anything else I can provide as evidence. He said "No, there is nothing else we need from you. We will notify you and your fiance when the case has been processed." That was basically it.


This is a really BIG deal in Vietnam, and the consulate knows this. The Vietnamese love an excuse to party, especially on somebody elses tab, so when somebody gets engaged the entire village often comes to the party. The Dam Hoi serves a traditional purpose, which is to put everyone on notice that the couple are now officially "off the market", but it also serves an important function in the families and community. This is a chance for the family of the groom to show off, which is why even a poor family will often have a very large party.

As far as the consulate is concerned, you aren't really engaged until you've had a Dam Hoi ceremony and party. In their eyes, you submitted a petition for a fiancee visa when your fiancee was still just your girlfriend. This is a huge red flag for a sham relationship in HCM, since a fraud couple often won't go to the trouble and expense of setting up a Dam Hoi celebration, or might stage a very small celebration to save money.

QUOTE (MichaelAndKha @ Oct 20 2009, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
- Beneficiary is unable to provide basic facts (such as ceremony, manner of celebration, venue, guests or approximate costs) regarding the claimed planned marriage in the US. It appears that the relationship is a sham or that Beneficiary has no actual intent to marry within 90 days of admission to the US. Furthermore, Beneficiary stated that she and petitioner have no planned Honeymoon.
I did already give some facts about our wedding ceremony that would take place even though it wasn't specific. I didn't know they were so picky about this, jeez.


I haven't seen this one come up very often. The consulate knows darn well that you can't make any final plans before you get the visa. In fact, they specifically warn the beneficiary not to make any final plans until they have the visa. But they would expect that the wedding would be something you would have discussed, and would at least have some general plans. For example, will it be a JP or church wedding? Will any family members attend? Will you have a reception or party afterward? ARE you planning a honeymoon?

They said that she didn't know basic facts about the wedding plans. This seems to indicate they asked her about it at the interview, and she didn't know. This is another one of those "smells like a sham relationship" red flags at the consulate. A sham couple either wouldn't make any plans at all, or the plans would be handled by somebody else (in the case where the relationship was set up by a third party). The main objective for a sham couple is to get the visa.
  • 0

12/15/2009 - K1 Visa Interview - APPROVED!
12/29/2009 - Married in Oakland, CA!
08/18/2010 - AOS Interview - APPROVED!

05/01/2013 - Removal of Conditions - APPROVED!


#19 Darnell

Darnell

    Wuhan Rocks !



Posted 21 October 2009 - 10:35 AM

IMO, file for another K-1 with all of the new stuff that you have.

Good Luck !
  • 0

#20 sachinky

sachinky

    We just look a lot better under the blue lights.



Posted 24 October 2009 - 05:05 AM

Any updates on this case?
  • 0

03/27/2009: Engaged in Ithaca, New York.
08/17/2009: Wedding in Calcutta, India.
09/29/2009: I-130 NOA1
01/25/2010: I-130 NOA2
03/23/2010: Case completed.
05/12/2010: CR-1 interview at Mumbai, India.
05/20/2010: US Entry, Chicago.
03/01/2012: ROC NOA1.
03/26/2012: Biometrics completed.
12/07/2012: 10 year card production ordered.

09/25/2013: N-400 NOA1

10/16/2013: Biometrics completed

12/03/2013: Interview

12/20/2013: Oath ceremony

event.png


#21 lindal24

lindal24

    Platinum Member

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 06:42 PM

NODINK's case was also denied...
  • 0
CR1/IR1 Timeline:

GENERAL INFO
[*]12-xx-2007 - 1st Trip (6wks) & Met him halfway around the world
[*]03-xx-2008 - Got engaged - two people on opposite sides of the world
[*]05-xx-2008 - 2nd Trip (2wks) - Engagement/Marriage/Consummation
[*]06-12-2008 - Filed I-130 (CR-1) with Vermont Service Center
[*]12-xx-2008 - 3rd Trip (4wks)
[*]06-05-2009 - Interview at 9:00am at HCMC Consulate (result: blue)
[*]07-08-2009 - Submitted RFE: Beneficiary's Relatives & Evidence of Relationship
[*]08-xx-2009 - 4th Trip (4wks)
[*]10-07-2009 - AP 91 days - Result: APPROVED!!
[*]10-31-2009 - POE: Detroit, MI
[*]11-18-2009 - Social Security Card
[*]11-20-2009 - Green Card
[*]01-21-2010 - Driver's License

THE NEXT STEPS...
[*]02/07/2011 - Renew Vietnam Passport
[*]07/30/2011 - Process of Removing Conditions Begins
[*]09/25/2011 - Date of I-751
[*]09/28/2011 - NOA1
[*]10/19/2011 - Biometrics

#22 NODINK

NODINK

    Member

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 12:48 PM

QUOTE (lindal24 @ Oct 27 2009, 04:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
NODINK's case was also denied...



hehehe... Lindal24 beats me to this smile.gif

Yup, I'm in the same boat. You & I got pretty much the same letter. Like someone suggested to get help from your Congressman, Senators. I have contacted my senator but nuthing can be done except he'll write a letter of complaint on my behalf. That's it.
Right after my fiancee got it, I wrote a complaint letter to Chief of Immigration @ HCMC. Don't know if it did any good.
Ditto to USCIS @ California. But nothing in return.
About the issues of Wedding Ceremony & Honeymoon: I'll contact those places and get their brochures, address, price
all that good stuff. This, you might do the same.


  • 0

#23 Zen Den

Zen Den

    Platinum Member



Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE (MichaelAndKha @ Oct 20 2009, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My fiance just got a letter from the US Consulate in Vietnam. It's a blue document and they denied her a visa.

Several reasons they stated:

- Photographs submitted as evidence of the relationship indicates that we only spent one or two days together.
This is not true, we actually spent 5 days together out of the 7 days I was in Vietnam during my first trip.

- Beneficiary and petitioner submitted no evidence of any engagement celebration. This contradicts social and cultural norms in which many family members and friends, including those in the US, are invited to engagement celebrations numbering in the hundreds of guest for families of even modest means. Together with other factors, this has been established as one of the key elements of a sham relationship to evade US immigration laws.
We did in fact have the Dam Hoi (engagement ceremony) last month, but it was too late to submit this as evidence since the case was already under review. I even went to the US Consular office in Vietnam and spoke to the officer several days before our Dam Hoi was to take place. I told him about our upcoming celebration and he made a note of it. I asked him if there is anything else I can provide as evidence. He said "No, there is nothing else we need from you. We will notify you and your fiance when the case has been processed." That was basically it.

- Beneficiary is unable to provide basic facts (such as ceremony, manner of celebration, venue, guests or approximate costs) regarding the claimed planned marriage in the US. It appears that the relationship is a sham or that Beneficiary has no actual intent to marry within 90 days of admission to the US. Furthermore, Beneficiary stated that she and petitioner have no planned Honeymoon.
I did already give some facts about our wedding ceremony that would take place even though it wasn't specific. I didn't know they were so picky about this, jeez.


This whole thing makes me upset and frustrated. I'm going to make a rebuttal claim with USCIS as soon as a I hear from them.

Has anybody here gone through the same thing or similar?

My fiance gave me this link to an article which can give more insight about visa denials.

I'm still in a state of confusion blink.gif

Michael


1) get ready to make an appeal right away.
2) get as much proof/evidence that they say you don't have.
3) mentioning the engagement ceremony is not the same as presenting proof that you actually did it; the officer's taking note of it didn't mean he/she took your word for it, it meant he/she was going to remember to ask for evidence of it
4) talk to your fiancee about how you have a plan for the wedding/honeymoon and she doesn't know it, make sure you share the same info about it this time

good luck and god bless!



  • 0
I-129F, AOS, ROC
02-11-2008 Sent out I -129F in mail
02-13-2008 NOA 1
03-14-2008 NOA 2
04-07-2008 Medical exam passed
04-25-2008 Interview, visa aproved, no RFEs!
04-25-2008 Waiting for DELBROS/NSO
05-07-2008 Visa on hand ! Wow, less than 3 months! Thank you Lord!
05-26-2008 POE Detroit, no problems, thank God!
07-01-2008 Married 07-01-08, civil, just us w/ his parents
07-16-2008 Mailed out AOS package
07-19-2008 wedding ceremony
08-19-2008 biometrics appointment
08-25-2008 i-485 touched
09-23-2008 i-485 touched
09-30-2008 i-131 approval notice THANK YOU LORD!!!!
10-04-2008 Received my EAD
10-06-2008 Received my AP...yehey, i can go back to Phil for xmas!
11-14-2008 DMV driving test-passed! thank you Lord!
11-18-2008 Received RI driver's license
11-30-2008 Went home to PHILs for the holidays
12-21-2008 Church wedding!
01-08-2009 AOS Approved! thank you Lord! no interview required!
01-16-2009 Received GC in mail
09-02-2010 Sent out application for ROC
09-08-2010 Received NOA1
09-10-2010 Received Biometrics Notice
10-06-2010 Biometrics
12-06-2010 Approved! Thank you Lord God!
12-11-2010 Received NOA2 and 10-yr GC in the mail =)
N-400
10-03-2011 Sent N-400
10-07-2011 NOA1 date
10-25-2011 Biometrics
12-02-2011 Civics Test/Interview (passed)
04-09-2012 Oathtaking (got my little USA flag and souvenir photo!)

Matthew at 1yr
Posted Image[/img]



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