What race are Egyptians considered to be here

[Angel7422 0]

Hi Everyone,

My husband is now eligible to file for citizenship so we are gathering documents and completing application, etc. One of the question on the N-400 is to select the race of the person filing for citizenship. The options are: White, Black/African American, Native American, or Native hawaiian.

My husband is Egyptian so which option do I choose? I know it shouldn't be difficult but when dealing with immigration i want to be sure. I have read job applications and it has said that if the person is of Middle Eastern descent, etc then choose white as race. This really has me wracking my brains, so tell me what race are Egyptians considered to be here in the US if there is no option for Middle Eastern, Egyptian or Other.

Angel

[S and S 12]

Everything I ever heard says you must say they are white. Only if there is an "other" option or "middle eastern" can you put those. Thats what I know, but maybe someone who has gone through this can verify it.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Everything I ever heard says you must say they are white. Only if there is an "other" option or "middle eastern" can you put those. Thats what I know, but maybe someone who has gone through this can verify it.

I've questioned that myself when we filled out govmnt paper work or other papers for license...ect... Adam is from EGYPT and far from white... i didnt like that there was no other option ... but we did as we were told!

[Nasturtium 500]

Hi Everyone,

My husband is now eligible to file for citizenship so we are gathering documents and completing application, etc. One of the question on the N-400 is to select the race of the person filing for citizenship. The options are: White, Black/African American, Native American, or Native hawaiian.

My husband is Egyptian so which option do I choose? I know it shouldn't be difficult but when dealing with immigration i want to be sure. I have read job applications and it has said that if the person is of Middle Eastern descent, etc then choose white as race. This really has me wracking my brains, so tell me what race are Egyptians considered to be here in the US if there is no option for Middle Eastern, Egyptian or Other.

Angel

White. ME, Egyptian, etc are not actually races. I think the only reason people get confused is because although they are pretty clearly caucasian by definition, our mental and cultural stereotype involves northern-Europeans only.

[anitacastillo 0]

I cannot answer your question and my husband is not MENA, but I wanted to share our experience. When we went for bio-metrics there was a "racial identification" type question.

White, including Hispanic/Latino

Black

Asian

etc.

My husband is from the Caribbean. He is Latino, but far from white. Most people think he is African-American -- so we choose Black.

I was surprised about how limited the choices were -- for a form that is to cover international immigrants.

To OP, you are probably thinking the same thing. Good Luck!!

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

Most Egyptians would be considered "White/Caucasian" because the definition includes not only people of European descent but also "people of the Middle East and North Africa" of which Egypt is a part. However Nubians are obviously not "white". My ex (a Nubian) was told about 10 years ago that he could not check the box "African American/Black" by some woman in the Human Resource office of a government agency in Chicago because he was born in Egypt which is a part of North Africa.

When he moved to the West Coast after we got married and he was applying for a job with the city I told him to put "African/American/Black" and I asked a friend of mine who is a lawyer for the Federal Government (and has a black father and a white mother) if it was legal for them to tell him he couldn't put "Black" back in Chicago. She asked me "has a police officer ever mistaken him for white at 2:00am?" I laughed and told her NO! She then told me that the true "test" for race, if there is such a thing, is how OTHERS perceive you. If people see you as black you ARE black. And since he looked a lot like Colin Powell that is exactly what people saw him as - BLACK. So he put it on the application for the job with the City and he got the job. And they were happy because that helped them fill their "quota" for blacks in that dept. So it all turned out well enough.

Bottom line from the lawyer's advice was that NO ONE can dispute what you put on a form. The lady in Chicago was totally out of line to tell him that he could NOT put black. While the majority of Egyptians are not Nubians (more live in Sudan than Egypt) and do not appear to be "of the black races of Africa" I think if you look black to strangers you ought to put it down. I my experience most Egyptians look more like latinos than blacks.

However the definition of Caucasian does include "the people of the Middle East and North Africa", so that's why most Egyptians would be marking the box "white/caucasian", unless they are Nubians...

Hope this helps....

Edited August 2, 2008 by Karamella

[Nothing1234 2]

Thanks Karamella! It does help and you are absolutely right....no one can dispute what you put on a form. No matter what others perceive you as...its ultimately up to you to decide what race category you fall under. If you are Egyptian one could debate you are from Africa...hence African. A friend of mine from Morocco always marks this off on applications when he applies for jobs. His prerogative of course.

Most Egyptians would be considered "White/Caucasian" because the definition includes not only people of European descent but also "people of the Middle East and North Africa" of which Egypt is a part. However Nubians are obviously not "white". My ex (a Nubian) was told about 10 years ago that he could not check the box "African American/Black" by some woman in the Human Resource office of a government agency in Chicago because he was born in Egypt which is a part of North Africa.

When he moved to the West Coast after we got married and he was applying for a job with the city I told him to put "African/American/Black" and I asked a friend of mine who is a lawyer for the Federal Government (and has a black father and a white mother) if it was legal for them to tell him he couldn't put "Black" back in Chicago. She asked me "has a police officer ever mistaken him for white at 2:00am?" I laughed and told her NO! She then told me that the true "test" for race, if there is such a thing, is how OTHERS perceive you. If people see you as black you ARE black. And since he looked a lot like Colin Powell that is exactly what people saw him as - BLACK. So he put it on the application for the job with the City and he got the job. And they were happy because that helped them fill their "quota" for blacks in that dept. So it all turned out well enough.

Bottom line from the lawyer's advice was that NO ONE can dispute what you put on a form. The lady in Chicago was totally out of line to tell him that he could NOT put black. While the majority of Egyptians are not Nubians (more live in Sudan than Egypt) and do not appear to be "of the black races of Africa" I think if you look black to strangers you ought to put it down. I my experience most Egyptians look more like latinos than blacks.

However the definition of Caucasian does include "the people of the Middle East and North Africa", so that's why most Egyptians would be marking the box "white/caucasian", unless they are Nubians...

Hope this helps....

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The designations are political, nothing more. The State Department has agreements with several countries that their immigrants will be considered to be "White", despite their true ethnic background. It has to do with the "privilege" and "desirability" of being "White" and a colonial mindset. Egyptians, in particular, Middle Easterners North Africans as a group are not Caucasians; many of us would not be perceved as White in the US at all. As a person of ME origin, I don't consider myself to be White, would never check that from a list, and I'm not the only one who feels that way. Choose what you like. It's not illegal.

[Angel7422 0]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for your inputs and keep them coming. I know that some people have mistaken my husband as mexican because of his features even his boss thought he was from italy because of his curly thick black hair. My husband says I could put list him as black because he is from Africa, but I am leaning toward putting his race as white.

[Aymerlu 3]

A funny story that some here have heard. When we went to get our marriage license they lady asked where my husband was from. He says "Egypt" so she picked up her book and said "oh, then you are white." Those of you that have seen my husband know he's VERY dark. I kinda giggled and ask her how sh could put white since he's far from white. He's Nubian so she did find that then put a N in the box. Kinda makes you wonder why middle easten isn't an option.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

Yah that makes sense ... alot of things are about Politics. I didnt know that he didnt have to put White... So, from now on is it a good idea to keep checking white for Adam bcz hes done so at least 5 times? Or is it Ok to check off as he wishes... I dont feel like he should be made to take on White identity if he doesnt want to.

The designations are political, nothing more. The State Department has agreements with several countries that their immigrants will be considered to be "White", despite their true ethnic background. It has to do with the "privilege" and "desirability" of being "White" and a colonial mindset. Egyptians, in particular, Middle Easterners North Africans as a group are not Caucasians; many of us would not be perceved as White in the US at all. As a person of ME origin, I don't consider myself to be White, would never check that from a list, and I'm not the only one who feels that way. Choose what you like. It's not illegal.

[Asante Maroon 0]

isn't Egypt in Africa? I'm confused.

[~PalmTreeGurl~ 154]

isn't Egypt in Africa? I'm confused.

yah but the ones from Egypt wouldnt check off African American...

[caybee 21]

When we got our license, the clerk looked at my husband's passport and very confidently put his race down as "Arabic." I guess it wasn't multiple choice. FWIW, he's Amazigh, not Arab. Most forms he's filled out list North African under the "white" category, so he usually checks that. He has lighter skin than I do, at least in the winter, but he's not Caucasian.

[KHPerfectMatch 1]

http://www.indiana.edu/~affirm/race.shtml

Above is a link to the legal definition of racial groups. Being Black/African American does not have anything to do with simply being born in Africa. There are plenty of White people aka: Caucasians, living in South Africa for hundreds of years but they are not "black". It's about skin color, type of hair, facial features, etc. "Negroid" features to use an old fashioned term. The majority of people in Egypt do not fit into this category, regardless of the geographical locations of Egypt.

On the other hand a person with "negroid" (dark brown) skin, "negroid" facial features and hair, born in London would not be Caucasian simply because they were born in Europe.

The 20th Century terms for categorizing race are: Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Congoid, Capoid, Australoid, and included in the group "Cacasoid" are people of Europe, Central Asia, South Asia, Middle East, and North and Northeast Africa.

Race has nothing to do with where you are born or what passport you carry. Race predates the artifical boundaries created by governments and the naming of geographic regions.

Nubians are an ancient group of people still very genetically "intact" due to a high rate of intermarriage. If my ex had been born in Sudan where the largest concentration of people of Nubian descent still live he likely would have been told to put "black", but the Egyptian passport made it confusing to the ignorant govenment employee he was dealing with. When the Aswan Dam was built many Egyptian Nubians faced a "diaspora" when they lost their homes and ancestral lands to the resulting "lake" above the dam. It's a very sad story of the forced migration of an ancient people.

Karamella