Complicated I-134 Affidavit Questions: Poverty Guidelines, W2's Co-Sponsors & More

[the_bears 1]

Hello all,

Having discovered this resource in applying for our K-1 Visa, I must first say that this is a wonderful, wonderful place and we owe a great deal to the help guides we've been following on here so far.

All has been going well so far, we submitted our I-129F package and all the supporting evidence in Mid-November, and a couple weeks ago we received our NOA2 - I've been amazed by how quickly the process has been progressing (especially after reading all the horror stories and studying the time charts so meticulously hah).

However, now appears to be where the problems may be forming, and as usual, they are complicated money-related problems. So, let me try and set the scene for you...

I am the beneficiary in this equation - I am from the UK. My partner (she) is from the US and has in September 2014 moved to Portland, OR (side note - lovely place!) to become a medical student. Which is great for her, but makes this situation a little more complicated.

We are currently in the process of filling out our I-134 Affidavit of Support and have hit a bit of a brick wall. So my first question, which I fear I already know the answer to:

Q1). Is she able to use her federal student loans, which she lives off of as a medical student - as an Income on this form?

Q2). She was working in the first 3/4th's of the 2014 year up until becoming a student, and has worked full-time for the past 2 years prior to this. So would she be able to use her Income from her 2014 tax return from Jan-Sept as Income? And even from her 2013 tax return?

Q3). Her sister has agreed to be a co-sponsor, if required, but we also have realised that her sister has three young kids... I assume that this bumps up the necessary required income for a co-sponsor - but what specifically does it increase it to? It's her, her husband and three kids. Then obviously me and the fiancee. Would this be 5/6/7? Please help. And specifically, what is the required income for this scenario?

Q4). To further complicate matters, I have also been employed in the US on a VISA previously (totally unrelated visa etc.) but it means that I also have a W2/Tax Return from the 2014 tax year with some Income on it (not much, but a few thousand here & there) - would I be able to use this as viable income on the form also?...

With this complicated of a situation, we are debating consulting an immigration lawyer, is this something you guys would definitely recommend doing? Obviously given our already laboured financial situation it wouldn't be our first choice but if it's something we may need to do we can.

Sorry for the long first post, but thank you so much for any insight anyone can give us, at this point it's very much appreciated.

Many thanks,

[chrismorrison 96]

Hello all,

Having discovered this resource in applying for our K-1 Visa, I must first say that this is a wonderful, wonderful place and we owe a great deal to the help guides we've been following on here so far.

All has been going well so far, we submitted our I-129F package and all the supporting evidence in Mid-November, and a couple weeks ago we received our NOA2 - I've been amazed by how quickly the process has been progressing (especially after reading all the horror stories and studying the time charts so meticulously hah).

However, now appears to be where the problems may be forming, and as usual, they are complicated money-related problems. So, let me try and set the scene for you...

I am the beneficiary in this equation - I am from the UK. My partner (she) is from the US and has in September 2014 moved to Portland, OR (side note - lovely place!) to become a medical student. Which is great for her, but makes this situation a little more complicated. Fantastic! I live in Portland as well-we have quite a group of Brits coming to the area-we should plan for a meetup when everyone is settled into their new lives!

We are currently in the process of filling out our I-134 Affidavit of Support and have hit a bit of a brick wall. So my first question, which I fear I already know the answer to:

Q1). Is she able to use her federal student loans, which she lives off of as a medical student - as an Income on this form? I do not believe she will be able to use this as a form of income as it's technically considered under the umbrella of government assistance... which is something they don't want you, the beneficiary, to require. Typically, student loans aren't included on tax returns as income, so I don't think it would fall under the income category for this form.

Q2). She was working in the first 3/4th's of the 2014 year up until becoming a student, and has worked full-time for the past 2 years prior to this. So would she be able to use her Income from her 2014 tax return from Jan-Sept as Income? And even from her 2013 tax return? Yes. I believe London wants the 3 most recent tax returns. So, she can send in those as proof for your affidavit.

Q3). Her sister has agreed to be a co-sponsor, if required, but we also have realised that her sister has three young kids... I assume that this bumps up the necessary required income for a co-sponsor - but what specifically does it increase it to? It's her, her husband and three kids. Then obviously me and the fiancee. Would this be 5/6/7? Please help. And specifically, what is the required income for this scenario? So, the 2015 rates have been released-you will have to include all 7 people in the househould, which-the poverty guidelines say is $36,730 for a 7-person household. However, I don't know if that's the 125% that immigration requires.

Q4). To further complicate matters, I have also been employed in the US on a VISA previously (totally unrelated visa etc.) but it means that I also have a W2/Tax Return from the 2014 tax year with some Income on it (not much, but a few thousand here & there) - would I be able to use this as viable income on the form also?... For the affidavit of support, your income can not be applied. It is solely on the sponsor (or co-sponsor) of the petition.

With this complicated of a situation, we are debating consulting an immigration lawyer, is this something you guys would definitely recommend doing? Obviously given our already laboured financial situation it wouldn't be our first choice but if it's something we may need to do we can. I would say there is no need to hire an immigration attorney as they will tell you the exact same thing. We almost went that route, and it would have been the most wasted $2000 I could think of. That's a flight to and from the UK/US.

Sorry for the long first post, but thank you so much for any insight anyone can give us, at this point it's very much appreciated.

Many thanks,

[the_bears 1]

Hello Chris,

Thanks a million for the responses, very much appreciated. And that's awesome! I love Portland, I think it's a great city, I definitely love the vibe of the place, it's cool. Good to know I'm not the only one in this situation.

Hmm, well that kinda sucks anyway. So she'd have to include all 7 people in the household size? Even if the husband has his own job/income and my Fiancee surely wouldn't need to be included would she? I was hoping it would be more around the 5 mark (her, their three kids & then me). Hmmmm, definitely makes it a little more complicated.

Also, as far as my fiancee's tax return/income - how does that work because she doesn't have that job anymore (because obviously she is a full time student now) and so a lot of those questions on the I-134 don't really apply anymore - she did have that job for a couple of years, but on the form now surely she would have to list that she's a student with an income of '0' essentially, right? So surely at that point her previous tax returns are irrelevant because she's no longer earning that money?

And I definitely can't use any of my own US-based income on it in anyway, even though it's something that I could continue to earn once I enter the US?

I officially hate this form! I definitely don't want to go down the lawyer route, because you're totally right, that is a lot of money that could be spent on flights (which you know how important those things are in this situation!) but this just seems way too complicated to be solved on our own, and no matter how much I read, I still don't know what is possible and what isn't at this stage.

Definitely tearing my hair out!!

[Dave&Roza 748]

Just to clearify one thing--the household size of her sister is 2 adults plus 3 kids and then supporting you for a total of 6 not 7. The I-864P lists all the requirements. Once you get to the US, your spouse will have to complete the I-864 and since she will need a co-sponsor the co-sponsor will need to make more thn the 125% level for their household size. So if her sister does not make more than 125% of the poverty level for her household size plus you--$39,962--then you might as well start finding someone else. You and your spouse can use assets which need to be 3 times the short fall in income. If the sister uses assets it will be 5 times. Just do not use your primary home or car.

Good luck,

Dave

[baron555 934]

Q1). Is she able to use her federal student loans, which she lives off of as a medical student - as an Income on this form?

No

Q2). She was working in the first 3/4th's of the 2014 year up until becoming a student, and has worked full-time for the past 2 years prior to this. So would she be able to use her Income from her 2014 tax return from Jan-Sept as Income? And even from her 2013 tax return?

No, the financial sponsor needs current income.

Q3). Her sister has agreed to be a co-sponsor, if required, but we also have realised that her sister has three young kids... I assume that this bumps up the necessary required income for a co-sponsor - but what specifically does it increase it to? It's her, her husband and three kids. Then obviously me and the fiancee. Would this be 5/6/7? Please help. And specifically, what is the required income for this scenario?

The new household size would be 7, those five plus you two. Now.....for London the UK beneficiary can self sponsor.

Q4). To further complicate matters, I have also been employed in the US on a VISA previously (totally unrelated visa etc.) but it means that I also have a W2/Tax Return from the 2014 tax year with some Income on it (not much, but a few thousand here & there) - would I be able to use this as viable income on the form also?...

See above. Read up on the applicable regional forum and/or the Embassy.

With this complicated of a situation, we are debating consulting an immigration lawyer, is this something you guys would definitely recommend doing? Obviously given our already laboured financial situation it wouldn't be our first choice but if it's something we may need to do we can.

If you can afford to burn that money with a lawyer, then why even have this conversation?....Unless the lawyer is a family member who is going to give you money....most do the opposite.

Edited February 4, 2015 by baron555

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

I officially hate this form! I definitely don't want to go down the lawyer route, because you're totally right, that is a lot of money that could be spent on flights (which you know how important those things are in this situation!) but this just seems way too complicated to be solved on our own, and no matter how much I read, I still don't know what is possible and what isn't at this stage.

Definitely tearing my hair out!!

A lawyer probably knows less London specific tips and tricks than the folks in the UK regional forum here on VJ. I am going to disagree with Chris a bit because I have been following London K1 procedures maybe 6.5 years longer, so have had opportunity to see more.

I will share some general information concerning your I-134 Affidavit of Support , as well as specifics at a London interview. Understand that each consulate has their procedure of how things are done. Hopefully it will give you enough info to answer those original questions.

An Affidavit of Support wants to know CURRENT income. So not what she made last year or the one before. What is her income right now Feb 4, 2015? A loan isn't really income. It's living off debt. Just like I couldn't say I have a MasterCard with a $25,000 credit line so that ought to cover an immigrant. I think a loan is not what they are looking for.

There are no specifics actually written into the law (Foreign Affairs Manual) that detail poverty levels and household size for a fiancé visa I-134. It says the officer must be convinced that you will not become a public charge. It is subjective. However each embassy has their own vibe of what they allow as acceptable. Look at the form. No where does it total a household size. It has a list of who one supports fully or partially. It helps the officer get a sense of obligations. Now shortly after marriage you will need to file adjustment of status to get a greencard. That has a new Affidavit of Support, Form I-864. It is strict and specific. It counts household size by head. It requires a tax return. It uses the poverty guidelines (which are published as Form I-864P) This is the latest version, but the do change http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-864p.pdf That Affidavit will be a bigger headache than the I-134.

On the I-864 household size, it is everybody in the sister's home (sister, husband, 3 kids) + immigrant (you). That is six. They don't support your fiancé or count her. She is an American. She can go on welfare even, but you can't. So while your visa I-134 support form doesn't actually count heads, it is a general rule of thumb to try to reach 125% of the poverty guidelines for the sponsors household plus immigrant.

London specific:

The sister can sponsor instead of your fiancé, so both don't have to do the form.

They don't require seeing a tax return if there is another proof like letter from employer.

They have accepted 100% of the poverty guidelines.

You could sponsor yourself with no I-134 at all. But you would need some good cash assets and/or enough income that will continue from the same source once you leave the UK. Remember that is current income. Nothing to do with a few thousand you earned in the US last year unless it's all still in the bank and you use it as assets.

If you and your fiancé both have some money stashed away, they would probably consider both. But if she is a poor medical student on loans, she doesn't likely have a bunch of money in the bank.

And don't forget, even if you squeak by London because they are so easy, you still have to meet the stricter guidelines of the I-864 in order to gain permanent residence in the US. The fiancé visa just gets you 90 days entry into the US so you can marry. No work allowed on a visa. That comes with the next application.

Hope that helps. Visit the UK forum. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/99-united-kingdom/

Edited February 4, 2015 by Nich-Nick

[EmilyRosePF 34]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the info in this post - I'm not the OP obviously, but this is all such helpful information!

[AR&CB 2]

Very well said indeed. How would I know what the US Embassy in Abu Dhabi requires as far as allowing a joint sponsor? I emailed them and in their reply they only said that if the petitioner can't support the beneficiary they can allow a joint sponsor, and then in the appointment letter they sent me it only says that a joint sponsor would be required if the petitioner is unemployed. If someone can guide me too a post or an area where they explain how strict/nonstrict they are as far as what they would accept from the joint sponsor and consider acceptable I'd so appreciate it....

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the info in this post - I'm not the OP obviously, but this is all such helpful information!

And it applies to you since your interview is in London. Do go to the UK FORUM link for more helpful info. There is a pinned Guide for London K1 at the top. A few corrections have been added to the end where the original post couldn't be edited...example ignore references for calling DOS....phones can now be taken inside the embassy... So read through all of it. If I was a big honcho on here I would fix it up, but I will have to start over with a new version to make changes. Most of it is still valid.

[Boiler 43,629]

I self sponsored the K1. Not option for the adjustments.

[LM&DLA 0]

Hey! I am in PDX too & new to the area!!! We should get a k1 visa happy hour going soon!!!

[the_bears 1]

Hello all! Sorry for the slow response, I had been trying to enjoy my last few days with my fiancee in Portland before heading back to the UK for a couple of months. Pretty sad as I'm sure you can all relate to. But alas, I'm back in the UK now and more determined than ever to figure this out.

Thanks to everybody that has contributed and I'm glad that this has helped some others too, that's great. After all the advice we'd been given on here, we'd decided to completely avoid the lawyer option. Seems pointless really because at this point it's all about the numbers - if you're sponsors don't earn X amount of money then, find ones that do. Not much a lawyer can do about that, other than advise really. And like @Nich-Nick said, a Lawyer might not be as clued-up on the local points as much as you guys on here might be, so cheers for that.

Thanks @Nich-Nick anyways for all the info (and everybody else too) it has definitely been very helpful and we have made a few developments I guess since then. Thanks for clearing up the difference between the I-134 and the I-864, that was definitely something I hadn't really appreciated the difference of before, but now it makes sense, so cheers for that. And also a big cheers to you and the other guys for creating that London K-1 guide, I have read it multiple times now and it's a big, big help, so cheers for that too.

As far as my Fiancee's sister goes, she is married as I mentioned, am I correct in saying that we could use the form I-864A and we could use his (the husband's) income also towards the sponsorship? Between them they make way over the required amount. Or would he have to technically become another co-sponsor? And is it possible to use the overall household income for the I-134 also?

I also don't quite understand (more a fault of the forms in my eyes) why the spouse is a +1 on the household size, because surely (as they are both USC) he can go on Welfare etc. if needed anyways - in the same way that my fiancee could. Just the discrepancy between the two is a little weird to me.

It's good to know that the I-134 is easier, but I figure if we can get everything into place for the I-864 NOW, then it's something we don't have to worry about come AOS time. Although it is a little more reassuring that London is a little easier on you than other places might be, so that's good.

Also, on a side note, I am self-employed in a business that doesn't require me to be in the UK to run - is this something that could be used as far as income and how would I show that on the available forms?

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's been really helpful and glad to see there's lots of PDX people on here too! I was definitely sad to say goodbye to it last week!

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

You asked a lot, so I will try to cover it.

London and your self employment.

It doesn't go on the I-134. But if you put an amount on paper for them to look at like who, where, how much, or a spreadsheet by month...a summary, they should consider it along with what the sister has to offer. You are a little off the norm, so may have to try it to know for sure. Take some documentation if possible to show you can continue the job even if you move to the US. You can even show your fiance's loan info to show how she affords to pay her bills. Maybe that would help too.

Sister and husband on London I-134. I know people have done that in the past. It doesn't exactly fit the form to have two names. Take proof of each of their incomes and their joint tax return. Way back many years ago the London website said both parties should sign the I-134, but that has been many form revisions and website revisions ago. Again a little uncharted as far as precise documentation in instructions, but you are face to face with the decision maker so can talk it out. It is a subjective decision by the interviewer. Bring everything. Convince him.

Household size on I-864: the sponsor has to make enough to support his household plus an immigrant. His wife is in the household. It's the rule...the law, whether it seems logical to you or not. He does not have to support another American not in his household like another person said in one of the replies. I would say the concept is if he or his family member goes on welfare, then he would have to be broke and couldn't support you either. So they need to know the sponsor won't be so broke they require welfare. They firstly need to support themselves, and then add you.

Joint sponsor on I-864

Yes, sister can use Lines 6abc to add her husband's income on her I-864 to come up with a household income. He completes I-864A to grant permission to use his income.