venusfire503

I'm sorry but this is way too civil!!! Usually these threads involve LOTS of popcorn.

Doodlebugg,

I'm also pleasantly surprised and relieved about that. Hey - we can have popcorn anyway... I've actually been on a popcorn kick lately, just without the drama.

venusfire

Im going to throw in my thoughts for a moment to you VenusFire. You can choose not to smoke, drink, curse, fast, pray, dress modest, ect... these things are not dependant on only being a muslim person. Im a christian and choose to live by those standards. GOD requires all of us to love Him and love and treat others as we would do ourselves.

Tamara, that is VERY true. The message just came through to me better from my husband than from anyone or anywhere else in the past. Not saying it's because he's Muslim. I grew up only knowing about Catholicism, and am happy I now get to see another viewpoint. I guess that's kind of my point - it's good for me to look outside of the little world I was born into. It can make things a little confusing at times, but I also feel that it teaches me alot. Just like when I was friends with people who are Jewish - I learned new things. Agreed with some, but not others - for example, I thought it made sense when the one guy explained how he was taught it's the right thing to do to feed his dog before sitting down to eat (seems logical AND practical), but I don't feel that it's necessary for me to keep separate sets of cooking equipment for meat and dairy (or that it's wrong to eat a cheeseburger). My husband was taught to fast during Ramadan, I was taught to semi-fast during Lent. My family didn't bother to say grace (although I know many if not most Christians do), but my husband says a prayer before eating, driving, etc - and that makes sense to me. So I'm taking what makes sense to me about Christianity, and what makes sense to me from Islam, and what makes sense to me from other places (life experiences, things I hear, etc) and NOT taking what doesn't make sense to me, and applying that to my life. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying that any one religion was "right" or "wrong" or "better".

Anyway, for whatever reason, my husband says things in a way that make sense to me. He's helped me in many ways, such as giving me confidence in myself. I'm sure part of it is his religion, part of it the way his parents taught/treated him, part his personality... all sorts of reasons. I'm just getting input and processing it all.

venusfire

I have never thought about converting and hubby doesnt really care. I do not practice organized religion and like Jenn, if I did convert it would be a lie. I don't agree with many parts of Islam (hijab, inheritance, etc) and I dont like the cultural do's and dont's of Islamic people in the Middle East. I dont believe that it is right to convert unless you are 110% faithful to the religion.

Hubby is Muslim, but that only goes so far. He is probably the worst example of one, but that is fine by me. We both believe in God, and have faith that we will leave earth one day and find eachother in heaven and thats all that matters.

ZaidsMommy,

I love your post! Jenn and you both said it right - it would be a lie to convert without really feeling it. And you brought up something my husband and I discussed. If you're born into a religion, it's like you're "allowed" to follow it the way you want, but if you convert - which means "picking" the religion - then you kind of have to follow it very strictly. I guess that's why I am where I am. I do love parts of Islam, but know that I don't feel it 100%, so converting would be wrong for me. I guess I want to "have my cake and eat it too"?

My husband isn't overly strict with following his religion either, which is one thing I think makes our relationship much easier than some expect it to be - "some" being those who think people of different religions can't make it work. Um - not saying that religion ruins marriages! Just that both of us being the way we are has resulted in fewer adjustments in certain areas.

Kind of off the topic, but I've noticed that SO many people who give dire warnings about "inter-whatever" relationships are most often those not IN those types of relationships and therefore have NO idea what they're talking about.... (like certain relatives of mine who lectured my sisters endlessly about their black boyfriends - now husbands - about all these problems that the sisters and their children haven't encountered after all!)

Anyway, back to your post - I also really love what you said at the end about believing in God, and finding each other in heaven.

Maybe that's the reason I felt compelled to post this thread - hearing what people have to say about it helps me put my thoughts into words. Also, it seems I'm going through something right now that I can't describe very well (thinking alot - mental growth spurt? haha). Unfortunately for me, I really don't have anyone other than my husband that I feel comfortable talking with about this. It's kind of funny - I've heard that MENA forum women have the reputation of being argumentative and getting threads closed, but I don't see it. I really feel 'safer' discussing things here than with my offline friends and family members!

I thank all of you for that!

venusfire

Hey venusfire! I don't mind this question at all. We have a Muslim thread....some of the stories are in there including mine. I am at work and can't take the time that I would like to respond to you but you are welcome to find my story and possibly even the same questions you had over time.

BTW...I bumped the thread up so you could see it You can always pm me with questions if you would like!

Aymsgirl, I saw the thread (I guess it was the right one), but it's like 163 pages or something.... I even tried just looking at your posts... couldn't find it. I read what you wrote here, though - it sounds like you really did your research!

Jenn!, I know what you mean. I don't see myself adopting any organized religion either.

I knew basically nothing about Islam before meeting my husband. I don't want to convert, and some might think I'm weird or hypocritical or whatever for following the lifestyle somewhat. Some might think I'm being "a follower" too. I wouldn't go back to where I was before I met him if something happened to him or us (God forbid), but I don't think I'd do things quite the same as I do now either. I look at it this way - I love my husband. I'm interested in who and what he is, and want to be close to him. I don't feel connected to any religion, but my husband has brought me closer to God, and that's a good thing. One thing I have in my mind is that I'm not so sure God demands that we follow some rules that certain religions use. I do believe in the Golden Rule, and the Commandments. I'm just not so sure about things like how we dress or what we eat. I do see the benefit in fasting, though - understanding what some people are going through, not focusing so much on eating (which is a big thing in the US - can't speak for the rest of the world, but really - I think many of us eat half the time because of habit or whatever), and also the idea of paying more attention to God and our minds instead of our stomachs. This is probably the 'worst' reason I have, but it's also in there a little - maybe there IS something to it, and I wouldn't want to not do something that maybe I'm supposed to do. It doesn't hurt to do it, and I'm a "better safe than sorry" kind of person... My husband has told me many times that I don't have to do what I don't want, and that I shouldn't do something (or not) just because he does (or doesn't). I agree. That's why I don't drink, but don't cover my head, for example. I love the idea of being more conservatively dressed, and not acting/talking provocatively - leaving sexual things just between the two of us where they really belong (really, does my sister need to know anything that happens here - or does anyone else for that matter?). I don't see anything wrong with kind of "trying out" something (even religion) now that I'm aware of it. Some aspects I tried out for a while and decided they didn't fit into who I am.

I'm sure many of you have had others try to talk you into/out of converting or not converting. I know I've read about some people being asked things like "are you going to start wearing that thing on your head?" because of being in a relationship with a Muslim man. I've been asked if I was going to convert, and just tell people I don't intend to (even though I sometimes feel like telling them it's none of their business).

There are some huge definite differences between being in a relationship with another USC of the same religion/background, and being in the relationship I am now! Some parts are difficult (dealing with USCIS, for one), but it's still a wonderful and amazing experience. Other than my children, nothing on earth means more to me than my husband.

venusfire (obviously having many thoughts flying around now...)

I know that there are many Muslim/non-Muslim relationships in MENA (like mine), and others that start out that way until (usually) the (non-Muslim) woman converts. Of course, there are also some that are Muslim/Muslim from the start - either both born into it, or conversion came before the relationship.

I know that there is the perception out there that people (again, mainly women) convert just because they marry a Muslim. While I'm sure that does happen (and I'm sure some of them regret it and/or abandon it, some don't think much about it, and others find it was actually a good choice for themselves after all), I'm also sure that many do it for very good, solid reasons that may or may not have anything to do with their SO.

I remember someone mentioning that she converted before meeting her SO, because she researched Islam after 9/11 (sorry if I'm not getting the details quite right) out of curiosity, and realized that it was right for her. I thought that was a beautiful story, and I'm happy I heard about it.

I'm very interested in hearing other stories, from anyone who would like to share. I hope I don't offend anyone by asking, and very sincerely hope that asking isn't an offense to the religion. I have good intentions. Yes, I want to hear some heart warming/inspriational stories, but I also think that maybe there are people out there who would like to share.

I was brought up Catholic, and my husband is Muslim. I've had people ask me about converting, but I honestly don't feel the urge to do it. I actually don't feel drawn to any specific religion, at least not right now. I don't attend religious services, but I do pray, thank God, talk about God to my children, we say grace... things like that. I do practice the Islamic lifestyle to an extent - I don't drink, I avoid pork/gelatin for the most part, do my best to be respectful of my husband and myself, fast during Ramadan... things like that. I feel better about myself, doing it. Some might wonder why I don't convert, then. My only answer, which I say with the utmost respect (and I apologize if it doesn't come across that way) is that I just don't agree with all aspects of Islam. I honestly don't agree with Catholocism either, which is why I haven't really practiced it for a long time. Some might consider me a bad person for "picking and choosing" certain aspects, but I really don't know if anyone adheres 100% to any religion. I KNOW I'm not perfect, but I'm doing my best. If others want to judge me, that's their issue, not mine.

Anyway, if anyone would like to tell about their conversion - or not converting - please do so. Feel free to tell why you did or didn't - what led you to your decision. For those who didn't, did you (like me) contemplate it at all? What was/were the deciding factor or factors? If you did convert, do you have any information you'd like to add - where, when, how you converted? For example, some might have done it very informally, maybe others had some type of ceremony? I'm just really curious - and this is something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately.

If I upset anyone, I am very sorry. I hope this can be a peaceful thread!

venusfire

So, what can we do if we want our marriages to be recognized in Morocco - get married again there? Can anyone outline what steps need to be taken? Is it a problem if the USC spouse is not Muslim?

Thanks

venusfire

No, it's not a problem. You have to be married by an Imam, with 2 muslim witnesses...then they give you a "certificate of marriage". That's what you need to register your marriage in Morocco...that much I know. It's the process of doing it from here that is confusing. I have research to do!

Well, in our case, we didn't do any of those things - we were just married by an officiant - no Imam, no Muslim witnesses.... so now what?

venusfire

This is a very confusing thread - seems like the whole beginning is missing or something???

I don't want to get into the middle of... whatever happened before... I just want to say that what I read reminded me of the whole "fiancee/wife" thing. Apparently, calling a fiancee "wife" and fiance "husband" is very common with Moroccans and their sweeties - we did it. It's cute, and fun, but I agree that it's really important to be VERY careful. It DOES get to be habit, and I would imagine the longer you do it, the more it comes out automatically. At his interview, my SO saw someone get a visa denial because the guy accidently called his fiancee "my wife". So... do whatever you want, use any screen name you want... but be very careful that the correct term is used when going for the interview - and I'd imagine it's important to make sure there's nothing in any papers submitted that give them any reason to think you secretly got married or whatever. Casa is difficult and it seems like they look for ANY reason to keep from giving out visas.

Best of luck to all!

venusfire

See, I should've been more patient before posting - I found it! It looks like a Smiliine Treehopper (Entylia carinata) that apparently decided to travel - it says they're found in West Virginia.

Thanks again!

venusfire

Thanks! There were some interesting pics on those links. I tried to use the ID link, but the bug flew off, and I don't know the answers to some of the questions. I don't think it's a tick - I think ticks are flat, right? This had a body like a hopper or katydid - tall and thin, not wide. I found it in my kitchen, on the rim of my teacup - I thought it was some tea leaves or something at first. Yes, in PA - southeast part. I showed it to my kids and husband, and we got a few pictures. I was making dinner, though, and walked away from it. My son was following it, but it suddenly flew away, and he didn't see where it went. Oh well.

I tried googling both katydid and treehopper. My best guess is that it's some kind of treehopper.

Thanks!

venusfire

So, what can we do if we want our marriages to be recognized in Morocco - get married again there? Can anyone outline what steps need to be taken? Is it a problem if the USC spouse is not Muslim?

Thanks

venusfire

I was just wondering if anyone has any idea what type of insect this is. I wasn't able to get the best pictures...

I never saw anything quite like this before.

I wasn't able to read all of the posts, so sorry if my post seems out of place with the others.

One thing that I was thinking is that maybe he's just worried about being able to support you and your children. It's my understanding that Moroccan men feel very strongly that it's their duty to be the provider (and usually the ONLY provider). Now that he's been in this country, he might realize how difficult it is for people from other countries to get jobs - and even more difficult to get jobs that will support a whole family (it's hard enough now for Americans to do it). Another thing is that maybe he's just worried that things might not 'click' in person. Hard to say. I also heard that some American women use Moroccan men to have a free place to stay when traveling there, and maybe he's worried about that.

It is possible that he's saying no to money and things now in order to get more from you later (get you to put down your guard), but it's also very possible that he just doesn't want to use you. His pride will likely not allow him to take money from you. Don't offer any more. If you really want to be a giving person, then just take gifts for him and the family when you visit, and leave it at that.

It's possible that he won't allow himself to fall in love if he feels unable to provide for you. Or maybe he's just waiting to see how it works out before he says anything - doesn't want to disappoint you if there are no feelings in person?

My advice, since you're looking for advice, is to go if you want, enjoy his (friendly) company, but don't have any expectations. If the two of you hit it off, then wonderful! Work out the details. If you don't hit it off, then appreciate the opportunity to meet a new person, see a new country, and have an amazing experience.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck!

venusfire

Maybe we need to just post all of our GOOD stories to give you something positive to read. I'm sure there are others who would like to read them, too.

For me, I can say that my husband is wonderful. We've been married over 2-1/2 years now, and not only is he a good husband, but he's a good stepfather too. People who meet him really like him. He didn't act strange after getting his greencard, and didn't leave me, either. We have some stress because of my ex (trying to take my kids away from me), but my sweetie stands by me, and helps me through it all. I know life would be harder without his emotional support. He helps with the kids, the housework, house repairs, etc. He doesn't look at other women, and actually gets annoyed when women flirt with him (he says they should respect me, him, and themselves). I honestly couldn't imagine life without him. The whole immigration process is long, frustrating, expensive, and draining - but totally worth it.

Yes, there are some 'bad apples' out there - all over the world - but they're the exceptions. It sounds like you love and trust your SO, and I think it's really important to trust your instincts. I know it's strange, but I think I understand what you mean about being nervous because you don't have a nagging feeling - it's new to you. If you're used to a-holes, it can be difficult not to expect something bad to eventually happen when you finally find a nice person. And if others 'warn' you, that makes it even worse. My ex said the most horrible things - like that he (my SO) was young and good looking, and why would he want an older, divorced woman with kids? After all the horrible things my ex said to me all the years I was with him (19 years!), I had such low self esteem that it was hard to believe that such a wonderful man COULD be interested in me! Luckily, I had started to realize my worth as a person by the time my SO and I started to talk about a romantic relationship instead of just being friends.

Of course, if you DO notice things that cause concern, that's different. But as long as you are comfortable with the way things are going, and he loves you for YOU, then do your best to relax and be happy. PLEASE don't accuse him of things unless you really think there's a problem - you can sabotage things for no real reason. Try just talking to him and explaining why you get nervous, and find ways to get rid of that nervousness. Remind yourself of what HE is like, not someone you heard about and never met. Like someone else said, you don't hear the other side of the story when you just read something online. Plus, it's human nature to blame the other person when things don't work out, and sometimes people blame it on the wrong thing ("he just wanted a green card" instead of "things didn't work out").

You might also want to consider going to talk with someone to figure out why you are looking for something bad that seems like it's not there, and how to overcome that. I know that some people do things like that - ruin something good that they feel they don't deserve.

I hope you continue to talk with everyone here, and that we're able to help. I do know what it's like to hear things that can make you nervous - I had to make sure to remember that only what was true in MY relationship mattered - not what might be going on in other circumstances.

Best of luck!

venusfire

I see that there are some approvals - congrats to all! I just wanted to make sure this thread wasn't forgotten - please update!

Thank you!

venusfire

wait a second... since mine doesn't want to become a citizen...... does that mean that I won't get dumped? can i still go on the cruise??

I thought that would mean you'd have a year less before you'd get dumped - he only needs to wait for the 10 year card, not citizenship....

Then again, if they take off with all our money (like the lady at his POE said), none of us will be able to afford the cruise....

venusfire

Interesting...

thanks!

venusfire

After thinking about this for a few more minutes, I think I figured out that part of the problem is how different people here are defining the term "front loading". In my case, I took it to just mean sending as much as possible with the petition. I think others take it to mean sending a bunch of proof with the petition, but less for the interview.

We sent everything we could - proof of relationship as well as proof of meeting in person - with the petition. Then he took everything we could come up with to the interview - mainly proof of ongoing relationship, since I didn't visit between sending the packet and his interview (I was going to visit, but his interview was sooner than we thought, so I changed my ticket to be there then, instead of a few weeks before). I even went along in case they wanted to talk to me (then, or in the days following - I've heard that happens sometimes), but just paced around outside for hours.

MouadsWife had some VERY good points about RFE and providing (or not) enough proof of a genuine, ongoing relationship. And about doing what you feel is best/makes you comfortable.

venusfire

Many people believe that the visa decision is more or less made before the interview (although it's not necessarily set in stone) - they DO look over everything beforehand. In that case, it seems front loading would really help - since that would be what they had to make their initial decision. Think about it - it's kind of like a job interview - you want to give the best possible FIRST impression to the person who makes such a big decision that will affect your future.

The other thing is, front loading (in this case, as I understand it) doesn't mean not sending as much as possible to the interview as well. It's not either/or, and I would be willing to bet that most people who 'front load' also 'back load' - or whatever you want to call it. And yes, my SO did show her he had all of the information at the interview. She looked at some of it.

No one can prove what helped or didn't, but the fact that we had none of the usual problems/delays, despite all of the reasons we COULD have/should have, might show the benefit of "doing it the way we did". And I don't think providing as much proof as possible at all steps of the process is anything at all like wearing chicken's feet or whatever. Our goal with the visa process IS to prove a legitimate relationship, and is nothing at all like superstition, voodoo, etc.

And if wearing garlic or chicken feet makes someone feel better, so what? Doesn't hurt anything.

I'm curious why someone would be opposed to what anyone else does in their journey, as long as it's legal and doesn't hurt anyone. Everyone reading about others' decisions has the choice about whether to do the same or not in their own case.

venusfire

In most fiancee visas there is little to "frontload" much of it (if not all) occuring before the couple even met in person. Then we have many months AFTER the petition is filed and any proof of relationship during that time is not possibly available to "frontload" . How does proof of a relationship which does not even qualify for a petition, assist with the issuance of a visa? There is no qualifying "relationship" TO prove until after the couple meets in person.

Not everyone files immediately after first meeting in person. We had to wait just over 2 months. Some couples wait for many other reasons - some for many months, or even years. Also, some couples meet more than once, as we did.

Even if we had filed after my first trip there, we had quite a bit to send by that time - pics, email, phone calls, etc. To us, meeting was just a continuation of a relationship that had already started. Some couples get engaged during the first meeting in person, so they'd have quite a bit to send. Some lucky people spend much more than a week or so on their first trips.

That said, and with all this speak of front loading, is there any cases we know of here at VJ where front loading benefitted the issuance of a visa? I mean the theory is cast about often enough, though I begin to wonder if it isn't just one parroting another. "Frontloading...frontloading" "Must front load for difficult consulates" "Must frontload for maybe any consulate" Which is it? Who benefits? Who HAS benefitted? Cetainly there must be examples here. Someone who can say "Yeah, you bet, I would never have gotten my visa if I hadn't included those emails from BEFORE we filed the petition. They were about to deny us, no question, then we pointed out the emails and two photos from when we filed the petition and they changed their mind and gave us the visa!" Anyone? Someone?

We didn't discover VJ until after we sent our packet, so we just did what we thought was best - never heard of "frontloading" at that time.

There's no way to really know WHY it goes more smoothly for some couples than others, but we can all have our theories. Morocco is notorious for being a pain, and many couples get denied, or have to wait forever, or get 221g...whatever. The lady who interviewed my SO acted like there was NO WAY she was going to give him (or anyone else) the visa, but he got it a few days later. Not exactly sure what "did it" for us. All I can do is tell the facts in our case, and my theories about it.

Facts: I am 11 years older, divorced, with 3 children, raised Catholic, didn't know any French or Arabic, and had some money from the divorce settlement (wasn't even working at the time). We met - online - only 4 months before sending our k-1 petition. I did go to see him twice in that time. I met him during my divorce, and sent the packet the day I got the divorce decree. So, basically, just about ALL of the red flags possible. Yes, the lady was practically interrogating him during his interview (while I paced around outside for hours). But he got the visa, and was here less than three months after I sent the petition.

I hired a lawyer, thinking it was necessary. For the petition, we sent tons of photos, IM chats, email, phone records, boarding passes, etc. He also took several thick binders to his interview with more - and some of it might have hurt more than helped, I don't know - receipts from the laptop I bought him (so we could talk more often), evidence of sending him money through agencies, bank statements for the account I opened for him (gave him an ATM card - fewer fees, more convenient, faster, etc) - things that might have made it look like he was using me. We included receipts for and pictures of the engraved wedding bands we ordered between sending the petition and the interview date. And tons more pictures, etc. Both proof of meeting in person and of our ongoing relationship.

Opinion: whether or not others agree, I strongly feel that all the things we provided in the k-1 packet and at the interview really helped us out. I'm not so sure about the lawyer - I think that was a waste of money. At the time we thought it would at least show that we were serious about the whole thing. I would say that it can't hurt if you can swing it financially, but I've heard of it slowing things down in some cases, and totally screwing things up in others. I think for straightforward cases, it's a bad idea.

I really think that it helped that he remained calm during the interview and just kept answering the questions, even though some were asked repeatedly. We also made sure he was really prepared - well rested, we reviewed all the information he might need to know, etc.

So, I can't say 100% that 'front-loading' was THE reason that we had such a quick and 'easy' time of the visa part of the process, but I really do think that it helped tremendously. If nothing else, sending all that you can might give you some peace of mind. I'd rather "waste my time" gathering and sending too much than worrying during the wait and/or kicking myself for not sending enough. But like all things, everyone has to make their own decisions.

Best of luck to all during their journeys!

venusfire

This thread is why I wanted (request denied) a new forum section. There is the "moving here and your new life in America" forum, but I think the USCs could use a forum, too. One about what we should expect - even though it's less of an adjustment for us, our lives change, too. I think also putting in there things we can do to help the new immigrant would be good, too. We love them and want them to be happy - and helping them adjust can make it easier for us (and our children, for those who have them), too.

venusfire

I don't know the specifics of the situation, but there is a way to report any child you believe is at risk to be taken out of the country. If the child is a USC, does he/she also have a US passport? I'm guessing there is also a passport from the mother's country as well? Either way, I recommend finding out RIGHT AWAY what to do to make sure if she realizes she is getting deported, that she can't just take the child without the father's knowledge.

Best of luck

venusfire

Hmmm... maybe I'll get lucky. My wonderful husband isn't very good with time-related things. Maybe he'll never realize when his time is up?

venusfire

Now I know why I was hearing something different - I heard from my brother in Afghanistan, and my husband heard from his family in Morocco...

different than the US

Happy Eid, everyone!

venusfire

I just heard that it's on Monday, not Sunday.

venusfire

Ok now I'm sorta confused. I thought they could apply a few months shy of having their GC for 3 yrs...correct?

That's the way I understood it... 90 days before the 3 year anniversary of the date on their GC... I know there are some other things that apply in certain situations, but that's the general rule in most situations. At least for those of us who did K-1.

venusfire