sandinista!

Posting to commemorate the anniversary of this amazing thread.

So if the housing and employment option you found is unconscionable by his (not atypical for a more conservative minded person from MENA) standards, is he providing shelter, food, clothing, and all of your other daily needs and expenses?

indeed, a friend once told me she constantly gets asked if she adopted her daughters (their father is cambodian), most times right in front of the girls. it baffles me, right alongside strangers who walk up and put their hands on a pregnant woman's belly.

Ughh.

I totally get not turning every incident into this crazy, hyped up, racialized thing though, when I think a good amount of the time it comes from bad manners,being oblivious, and just not knowing any better. Doesn't excuse it, but it could be a better approach than getting overly worked up about people's reasons for saying stupid .

My mom used to get asked in front of me what is was like to have a child that looked nothing like her. It was very upsetting to me as a child, because there is a very strong resemblance between us, except that I tan in the summer and don't have blonde hair, and I wanted to be just like my mommy.

Lord forbid if Mr U and I ever spawn and create a Korean-Irish-Mexican-German-Belgian-English-Basque-Cherokee baby. We'll probably be accused of kidnapping it. On the plus side, it will be eligible for at least three Obamaphones!

So, um, like, what are you anyways?

mom needs to grow a pair and stop worrying about busybodied strangers making ridiculous comments.

Well, yeah. The article wasn't great at getting much of a point across. But this can be a thing. And in my experience it predominantly skews towards white people saying weird stuff or making inappropriate commentary about other people's racial or ethnic attributes. Being out in public with a curly haired kinda brown kid doesn't mean I want to field questions about my daughter's ethnicity while I'm trying to buy a pair of shoes. 99.9% of the time, people are nice, and are asking from a curious, nice, but still nosy place. When my son was little, strangers talked to me about him as a person ...the comics he was into because they saw his Avengers shirt, etc. But a brown girl, with curls and a foreign name, people usually just mention what they see as her "exoticness" or prettiness. It kinda sucks. She's a person too, beyond her looks and ethnicity.

It's not about a way out of poverty. It's the realization that being born into poverty, they're more likely than not to be stuck there. And with the kids being born to these girls, the expectation of being stuck in poverty becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Not only for these girls but for their kids as well. It's a vicious cycle.

Kids are a comfort measure for many, in the grind of poverty. As far as being cash cows though, they do a terrible job. The supposed "welfare queen" benefits in having more children vs the actual cost of those children simply do not pencil out.

Not according to this site.

true story, I was just about to post that same link!

This one too.http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/whats-the-right-c-section-rate-higher-than-you-think/

Spluttering over and over about what countries have death penalties for being gay is a deflection, no one's more aware of those realities than millions of gay Muslims. Clearly it's about more than the OP could ever grasp. I'd like to know when exactly the OP became any kind of source for what Islam wants, what gays want, what both groups stand to gain from each other's support, and what to do with the concept of real life gay Muslims, and their 1400+ year existence. Just because the OP can't wrap his head around it doesn't make it any less of a thing.

Long, but a good read. Obligatory but insincere apology for great wall of text.

Stop trying to split gays and Muslims

Anti-Islam crusader Pam Geller's effort to foment hate between the two groups is based on lies and doomed to fail

I have an earnest and sincere question for the LGBT community: Do you support Pamela Geller?

Geller, who is one of the most active proponents of anti-Muslim attitudes in the United States, rose to notoriety as one of the key instigators of the Park51 backlash, misrepresenting a proposed Islamic Community Center (think a YMCA or Jewish Community Center) by calling it the Ground Zero mosque and engaging in dishonest rhetoric and blatant fear-mongering. Her organization, Stop the Islamization of America, was identified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights organization, alongside extremist groups like the Ku Klux Klan and Nazis. And its earned that label Geller and her allies have dedicated countless hours and millions upon millions of dollars to drum up hatred, fear and xenophobia toward Muslims.

Last week I learned that Geller and one of her biggest allies, Robert Spencer, are hosting a fundraiser for their anti-Muslim advertisements on the website Indiegogo. This disturbed me for a number of reasons, but particularly because Indiegogos terms explicitly prohibit anything promoting hate. (Despite reports from me and many others, Indiegogo has so far declined to remove the fundraiser; if so inclined, you can let them know what you think about that here.)

While I was looking into this, I discovered that Geller recently announced plans to run a series of anti-Muslim advertisements in San Francisco quoting Muslim individuals making anti-LGBT statements. Why? Because members of San Franciscos LGBT community criticized other anti-Muslim ads she has run there.

I tweeted my appreciation that the LGBT community in San Francisco is standing up against her efforts to drive a wedge between LGBT folks and Muslims. Soon after, Geller retweeted me, claiming that she in fact has huge support in Gay community. Immediately, her supporters began to lob insults and even threats at me; Spencer himself suggested that I should be rewarded for supporting Muslims by someone saw[ing] off [my] head. (Meanwhile, though Geller, Spencer and their supporters kept tweeting at me that Muslims hate gays and want to kill me, many Muslim friends and strangers alike tweeted love and support for LGBT equality at me.)

As things settled down, I realized that Geller had stopped responding to me when I requested more information to back up her assertion that she has huge support in Gay community, after the only evidence she provided was a link to a Facebook group with 72 members. Ive since asked her repeatedly for more information, but have not gotten a response.

I couldnt think of a single LGBT person in my life that would support her work, but I didnt want to go off of my own judgment alone. So I started asking around. It wasnt hard to find prominent members of the LGBT community who do not share Gellers views.

The idea that the LGBT community should support Islamophobia is offensive and absurd, said Joseph Ward III, director of Believe Out Loud, an organization that empowers Christians to work for LGBT equality. [American Muslims] are our allies as we share a common struggle to overcome stereotypes and misconceptions in America.

Trying to drive a wedge between the LGBT community and other communities is old, tired and [it] doesnt work, said Ross Murray, director of News and Faith Initiatives for GLAAD. Pitting two communities [like the Muslim and LGBT communities] against one another is an attempt to keep both oppressed. Wedge strategies are offensive and, in the long run, they do not work. Geller is not an LGBT ally shes posing as one because it is convenient to her [anti-Muslim] agenda.

As with any attempts at a wedge, these efforts seek to erase the real and powerful reality of LGBT Muslims and seek to create a false dichotomy: All the LGBT people are non-Muslim/Islamophobic and all the Muslims are straight and homophobic, said Rev. Rebecca Voelkel, program director of the Institute for Welcoming Resources at the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. Particularly given the oppression, marginalization, hatred and violence visited upon the LGBTQ community, it is critically important that we use our spiritual, communal and political power to speak out against the victimization and vilification of any other community. As a Christian lesbian, I must stand against any attempts to victimize another because of their personhood.

Theres no doubt that theres a great deal of religion-based bigotry against LGBT people, although its hardly limited to Islam. The Hebrew Scriptures also prescribe the death penalty for some homosexual conduct, but you dont typically see people using this to inflame anti-Semitic or anti-Christian sentiment, said John Corvino, author of Whats Wrong With Homosexuality? and coauthor of Debating Same-Sex Marriage. To single out Muslims in this way is both unhelpful and unfair.

Despite her claim, the work of Geller and her colleagues has plenty of opposition in the LGBT community. Why?

For starters, its wrong.

As Junaid Jahangir writes in a recent piece at the Huffington Post, [Gellers] selective references provide a misguided view of the current Muslim position on ####### rights issues. He rightly notes that her advertisements lift up the views of a controversial Muslim cleric, but ignore the over 2,500 Muslim intellectuals from 23 countries [that] not only called for an international treaty to counter such clerics, but also called for a tribunal set by the United Nations Security Council to put them on trial for inciting violence. In his piece, which is a must-read, Jahangir goes on to quote many influential, pro-equality Muslim leaders. Pointing to the activism they are doing to support LGBT rights, he demonstrates that Geller is unfairly and dangerously presenting a skewed picture of Muslim views on LGBT people.

Theres no question that homophobia is rampant among the worlds 1.5 billion Muslims but that doesnt negate the fact that there are huge groups of Muslims who have easily reconciled their faith and sexual orientation, like LGBT people in other faith communities, said Reza Aslan, author of No God but God and Beyond Fundamentalism, in a recent phone interview. For a woman who leads an organization that has been labeled a hate group to try to reach out to a community like the LGBT community, by trying to make a connection based on bigotry, is harmful and ridiculous. Bigotry is not a bridge.

Of course, members of the LGBT community are right to be concerned about the dangers of religious extremism and totalitarianism whether it is Christian, Muslim or any other expression. But demonizing another community wont help reduce the influence of religious fundamentalism.

You can be honest about your disagreements without being hateful. Im a ####### atheist, and I believe that there are ideas and practices promoted by Muslims in the name of Islam that are not only false theyre extremely harmful. But to rally against Muslims and Islam as if they and it are some monolithic bloc is counterproductive; it creates enemies where we need allies. There are many Muslims who oppose cruelty and violence done in the name of Islam and favor equality for all people, and they are positioned to create change. We should be working with them, not standing against all of Islam. Based on my own experiences, I know that this is a much more constructive approach. In my book Faitheist, I tell several stories about Muslim friends who are not only accepting of my sexual orientation, but are also fierce allies for LGBT equality.

Thats the problem with Gellers advertisements, and with sweeping, generalizing statements about entire groups of people: They dont account for the diversity of ideas and traditions that exist within any given community. Geller focuses on a ridiculously tiny minority of Muslim extremists in order to paint her picture of Islam, and in doing so she neglects to account for the rich and varied traditions of generosity, selflessness, social progress and forgiveness present within Islam. Not only that, but her efforts alienate key allies Muslim and non-Muslim alike who share her concerns about Muslim extremists, but who also recognize that her narrow approach is unfair and dishonest.

Instead of adopting Gellers approach, LGBT people should focus on building relationships. After all, support for marriage equality more than doubles among people who know a gay person. The Pew Research Center reports that of the 14 percent of Americans who changed their mind and decided to support gay marriage in the last decade, 37 percent (the largest category) cited having friends/family/acquaintances who are gay/lesbian as the primary reason. The second largest group in this astounding shift, at 25 percent, said they became more tolerant, learned more and became more aware.

In 2011, I wrote an essay encouraging more cooperation and solidarity between the LGBT community and the Muslim community:

[in 2009], a Gallup poll demonstrated something the LGBTQ community has known for some time: People are significantly more inclined to oppose gay marriage if they do not know anyone who is gay. Similarly, a Time Magazine cover story featured revealing numbers that speak volumes about the correlation between positive relationships and civic support. Per their survey, 46 percent of Americans think Islam is more violent than other faiths and 61 percent oppose Park51, but only 37 percent even know a Muslim American. Another survey, by Pew, reported that 55 percent of Americans know not very much or nothing at all about Islam. The disconnect is clear: When only 37 percent of Americans know a Muslim American, and 55 percent claim to know very little or nothing about Islam, the negative stereotypes about the Muslim community go unchallenged.

The Muslim and LGBTQ communities face common challenges that stem from the same problemthat diverse communities dont have robust and durable civic ties. This is why the Muslim and LGBTQ communities ought to be strong allies.

I continue to believe this, and Gellers work isnt helping. Geller, Spencer, and their supporters are wrong to try to pit the ####### community against Muslims. Their efforts to force a wedge between us and the Muslim community are little more than fear-mongering a tactic that has long been used to keep the LGBT community marginalized and oppressed.

Faisal Alam, a ####### Muslim activist who founded the Al-Fatiha Foundation an organization dedicated to advancing the cause of LGBT Muslims recognizes this intersectionality.

Pamela Gellers attempts to create divisions between LGBT people and Muslim Americans is a losing tactic, said Alam in a recent interview. Muslims who are LGBT stand at the intersections of two marginalized communities. We know firsthand the devastating effects of both homophobia and Islamophobia. And we understand that LGBT and Muslim communities must stand together based on mutual respect and understanding.

In that respect, Geller, Spencer and those who support them seem to have more in common with anti-LGBT fear-mongers than they do with LGBT people and Muslims who are trying to build respect and understanding. Their worldview is more in line with someone like conservative commentator Frank Turek of American Family Radio, who has said that LGBT people and Muslims both hate Western civilization, both hate Judeo-Christian natural law values that our Constitution and particularly our Declaration of Independence were founded on. We should oppose efforts to demonize Muslims as we do those demonizing ####### people, as they ultimately share a common root.

Reza Aslan agrees, and he describes a shift toward greater understanding and cooperation in the Muslim community.

American Muslims young American Muslims in particular are starting to understand that unless they are willing to stand up for all the other oppressed communities in this country, including those discriminated against for their gender or sexuality, then no one will stand up for them, said Aslan. So far from there being a bond between Geller and the oppressed LGBT community, the bond [is] between the LGBT community and American Muslims a community that is facing unprecedented hate and violence in the United States. My hope is that having someone like Pamela Geller trying to create this division will have the opposite effect: That it will bring these two communities, oppressed for different reasons, together to form a bond against all forms of bigotry.

I share in that hope. So instead of donating to Gellers wrongheaded campaign on Indiegogo, I encourage LGBT folks to consider making a donation to Muslims for Progressive Values, which is doing radical work to promote LGBT inclusion.

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/02/stop_trying_to_split_gays_and_muslims/

It cannot be stressed enough, in my opinion, to have accurate and detailed knowledge of each other's cultural and personal backgrounds, especially when you're dealing with a not insignificant age gap, and various cultural and religious differences. Depending slightly on how religiously observant the guy is, understanding each other's religious beliefs well beyond "Islam is peace and mercy" is a thing too, in so many American /MENA marriages. It sounds like there's a long, long way to go in establishing a relationship, much less a marriage, and visa stuff on top of that. One step at a time, slow and steady, is where and how people have the best outcomes with these background details and age difference. Relationship wise most importantly, and with visa success.

Front loading is great advice. No one thinks Guangzhou is easy. But difficult consulates are all difficult in their own unique and culturally specific context ways. What flies in Guangzhou can be a big red flag in Egypt, that can't be glossed over. I've never seen anyone fretting over USCIS approval, except for a few weird situations where people were trying (always unsuccessfully) to get a waiver for meeting in person first. Getting to Point A is a given in the OP's situation. Front loading is not the end all be all though, which is where NY-BX's advice came in handy.

Yes we did get married quickly, however, I'm not the first. There are no family or friend issues in our marriage. We have full support on both sides. Yes, sure, we had red flags and many other people get approved with similar or worse red flags. It's quite obvious he didn't overcome the red flags or we wouldn't be in this situation. It's too late to change all that now, so we are moving forward and figuring out what the best course of action is for the future.

You have a close friend who is married to a relative of your husband, and that's how you were introduced, no?

Side by side comparisons of other people's visas and relationships don't work. You seemingly have far fewer red flags than so many others who weren't denied and married on the first visit. But something, somewhere grabbed their attention.

Moving forward requires exploring what that is...you can't counter what you don't know needs to be countered. It's not like you scratch out the denied visa and yell do-over!, and all the prior issues the consulate had are dissolved.

What was contained in the chat logs submitted didn't overcome the rest of the red flags. If I'm remembering right, yours went beyond lacking English fluency on the part of your husband...you got married very, very quickly after meeting, and there are friends/family issues in the marriage that must have yelled not legit to the consulate. He didn't successfully overcome those red flags. Maybe he might have been able to, had his fluency been better, maybe not. It's most likely that very little of this has much to do with chat logs, however much significance they seem to be getting here.

You might find more info posting this in the south Asia forum. Regardless, best of luck, and I hope you have a hassle free visa process, with your fiance's privacy respected the whole way through.

Gresham man openly carrying has gun stolen at gunpoint

6:10 a.m. PDT October 8, 2014

GRESHAM, Ore. (AP) - Police in the east Portland suburb of Gresham say a 21-year-old man who had just bought a handgun and was openly carrying it as he walked along a street was robbed of the weapon by a second man who also had a gun.

Lt. Claudio Grandjean says William Coleman III was robbed early Saturday while walking with his cousin in the 17200 block of NE Glisan Street. Coleman had purchased the gun on Friday.

The victim told police he was approached by a young man who asked for a cigarette, then asked about Coleman's gun and finally pulled a gun from his own waistband and said, "I like your gun. Give it to me."

The officer says Coleman handed over his gun and the robber left on foot.

Grandjean says the robber's weapon was described as a "possibly semi-automatic black gun." The stolen gun was a semi-automatic .22-caliber black Walther brand.

The suspect was described as a light-skinned skinny black man with short wavy hair, age 19 to 23 and clean cut with a small hair patch on his chin He was about six-feet one inch and wearing grey sweatpants, a white t-shirt and flip-flops.

Anybody who may have information on this case is asked to call the Gresham Police Tips line at 503-618-2719http://www.kgw.com/story/news/crime/2014/10/07/gresham-open-carry-gunpoint-theft/16892175/

The fact is, vaccine-acquired immunity does NOT work the same way as the naturally-acquired immunity you get after

recovering from the disease.

So, as clearly evidenced in this study, the pertussis vaccine likely provides very little, if any, protection from the disease.

In fact, basic science research suggests those who are fully vaccinated can still get infected with pertussis and transmit

infection without even showing any symptoms.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/10/07/mmr-vaccine-safety.aspx?

every time you vaccinate your child, there is a risk of severe injury and death. It is crucial that parents understand what is at stake and that the choice is theirs to make. I am not telling you not to vaccinate. I am telling you that the people who pressure you to vaccinate dont own the consequences. Only you, as parents do.

http://www.vaccinationinformationnetwork.com/gardasil-casualty-zeda-pingel-indiana/

http://vactruth.com/2014/10/05/bill-gates-vaccine-crimes/

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/4-boston-children-paralysis-possibly-related-enterovirus-d68-article-1.1959364

Vaccine acquired immunity is different because it is vastly superior to immunity acquired from wild measles or pertussis. The risks are not even in the same ballpark. Not even playing the same sport. A few years back, older vaccinated kids started catching pertussis from the children of nonvaxing, negligent idiots. It was discovered that immunity was wearing off quicker than initially thought, unfortunately. Regardless, the vaccinated kids had milder symptoms, fewer complications, and recovered quicker. It's certainly what I saw clinically, and the studies back that up.

They're also far less contagious. It's a good thing that they show far fewer symptoms, it means they're not nearly as sick and at risk for complications. But leave it to antivax degeneracy to try to twist things around and make it sound like they're the real, insidious, and extra dangerous threat. No. No they are not.

They can. His parents too. Anything's possible in MENA, from the consulate not asking a single question about anyone's parents, to extensive questions and home visits of parents and neighbors.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/822435

That is all great cept it just ain't so

Mexico and Central America has almost a 6 fold greater TB rate. All otehr immigrants are required to have a negative TB test to enter the country.

A few facts

Foreign-born persons had a 13 times greater TB incidence than US-born persons and accounted for 64.6% of TB cases in 2013.

More than half of these cases originated from 5 countries: Mexico (20.0% of cases [n = 1233]), the Philippines (12.6% of cases [n = 776]), India (8.0% of cases [n = 495]), Vietnam (7.4% of cases [n = 454]), and China (6.1% of cases [n = 377]).

Your link is behind a pay/membership wall. Regardless, discussion of endemic cases where these kids are from doesn't trump the actual Dr here in the US who has examined them and cleared them. He has no reason to lowball TB. The kids also received their needed vaccines, and many had their vaccine records on them. Their drs have not found a majority of them to be undervaccinated.

Also, details. No one made country to country comparisons. There are unvaccinated pockets in the U.S. no one said anything about the country as a whole.

Religious exemptions, true ones are hard to get an accurate number on, in many places it's the only non medical exemption allowed so people will claim it.

No, I am suggesting that most will be routinely vaccinated in their country of origin because most children in most countries are vaccinated these days, despite what you seem to believe. I am moreover suggesting that once they are in the US, it would be expedient to vaccinate any children that aren't vaccinated, if you don't have documents you aren't going to go around drawing attention to yourself by not doing what is routinely required to enter into the US school system. I doubt many undocumented migrant children have parents that send their kids into the system with letters explaining that they don't have vaccinations based on religious convictions that preclude their use.

If anything immigrant kids are more at risk in southern California than at home, some parts of southern California have worse vaccination rates than Chad.

The exemptions are too easy to get, and their abuse should have immediate and painful financial consequences.

World Bank statistics indicate that some of the countries that the kids are traveling from actually have higher vaccination rates than the United States. The U.S. has a 92 percent vaccination rate for measles. Mexico vaccinates 99 percent of its children; Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras all have a 93 percent vaccination rate.

In fact, many of the children and adults are carrying their vaccination cards with them, says Dr. Martin Garza, a Texas pediatrician who is caring for immigrants in McAllen, Texas. They are up to date in their countries, Garza told NBC News. This is not the poorest of the poor kids that we are seeing. In fact, they are what might be described as middle class. They have had medical care. They have been vaccinated.

He said that while some of the kids are sick, its nothing unusual.

The illnesses are pretty much what I see on a daily basis at my regular office, Garza said. They have common colds and other respiratory infections that kids get every day, stomach pain and constipation or diarrhea. Some of it might come from the fact that they havent had a really good meal for months and then we suddenly feed them one, he said.

Garza said he has not seen a case of active tuberculosis. People can be infected latently, meaning they don't show symptoms, but they also will not spread TB if they are infected in that way.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/vectors-or-victims-docs-slam-rumors-migrants-carry-disease-n152216

Claim: The threat of Guillain-Barré is a reason to reject vaccines.

Fact: No one understands what causes Guillain-Barré syndrome, but it can develop after an infection, surgery or vaccination. It is possible that people who develop GBS after vaccination might also have developed GBS after natural exposure to the disease. From both the societal and individual perspectives, the risk of GBS after a flu shot pales in comparison to the risk of serious adverse events if infected with the influenza virus: 60 to 70 cases of GBS vs. 20,000 deaths from influenza. Keeping things on the same scale, people over 65 years of age can choose from a risk of 1 case of GBS per million people or 10,000 cases of hospitalization and 1500 deaths due to influenza.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/swine-flu-vaccine-fearmongering/

Agreed. I would think it's a worse display of manners to fret over Modi, or assume that even after forty years of fasting he's a delicate little flower who will just wilt from people eating in front of him or talking about food in front of him. I bet he gets that life goes on for others who aren't observing his religious beliefs.

As an American Muslim I would be opposed to any suggestion that Sharia replace our American legal system for American Muslims or any other Americans, and I would be the first to fight any such possibility.

However, the inclusion of Sharia arbitration or alternative dispute resolution that might be utilized by Muslims who so choose after signing a binding arbitration agreement (signed by both parties in a dispute), or that might file an amicus brief with the court is not an alarming new idea. In fact, it is an existing option for religious communities. Any decision rendered by a tribunal or a panel of mediators is subject to appeal to the courts and must be consistent with American law and our Constitution.

This is how the law already exists. The various anti-Sharia bills are based on the idea that they would prohibit certain provisions of foreign laws including Sharia law from being considered by a court if they do not afford the same liberties, rights and privileges guaranteed by the US Constitution. That is already the case. The existing laws of the U.S. and the Constitution of the U.S. are already the final arbiter.

Unless Mr. Spencer and others who find this option so distasteful are also opposed to Halakha courts, then it would seem that this shows a streak of Islamophobia.

http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/islamic_sharia_and_jewish_halakha_arbitration_courts/