EnglishLove

I-129f

10/02/18- Mailed Packet

10/05/18- Packet Received 

10/11/18- NOA1 at the California Center!

Hello,

 I have a question about immigration attorney's. I am the American petitioner for the k-1 and my fiance is the the UK beneficiary. My fiance has a criminal record so I got a hold of an immigration attorney here in the US (thinking that since he's trying to move here to the US, that she would know) but apparently didn't know anything and kept saying she practices only US law and not English law. So should I be contacting an immigration attorney in the UK for answers about how cautions will affect us?

4 hours ago, marnold said:

I took the 4 passport photos I got from a photome booth and handed them over, the person collecting the documents cut off 1 and gave me the rest back.

Thank you so much! Did you have to have different sizes?

22 minutes ago, Greenbaum said:

One 5 x 5 cm (2” by 2”) color photograph taken within the last six months: You will be asked to upload a photograph meeting the Department of State’s photo requirements when you complete Form DS-160. We recommend that you also bring a photograph with you to your visa interview so that it is available if the consular officer asks to review it. It can be the same photograph that you uploaded to the application form as long as it meets the Department of State’s requirements.

 

When in doubt check the website for your embassy first https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/tourism-visitor/required-documents/

Thank you!

Hello,

 I remember reading a post but can't seem to find it anywhere. I know I may be getting close to hopefully getting my NOA2 and I'm trying to have everything ready on my fiance's side (the beneficiary). How many passport photo's are need? Thank you!

2 minutes ago, payxibka said:

VJ is actual reports from members .  If you read what the uscis site says the date means you will discover it has a different definition 

Oh Okay, thank you!

Hello,

 Just curious to those who have already received their NOA2. VJ and the USCIS have different processing times. USCIS states it is on June 29 and VJ states August 30th. Which website was more accurate with your timeline?

7 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

OP--Concerning this ^^^^

 

 If there is more to this than one juvenile caution and you want to find more documentation, you can ask for a Memorandum of Conviction.

 

http://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/crown-court-record/

Thank you! We will order Memorandum just to be safe. He only has one actual charge on his juvenile record but that was 10 years ago so I'm hoping they still have something showing it was closed. 

8 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

I think the wording is confusing me. The brit needs the sponsor. You keep saying YOU (USC) don't need a sponsor. Do you mean you won't have to find another sponsor or joint sponsor for your British fiancé?

 

If you have enough income, then you fill out an I-134 to assure London your fiancé will not become a public charge. 

 

If you lack enough income, then you find somebody else to fill out an I-134 to assure he will not become a public charge.

Oh okay, that's what I thought but I was confused for a minute. Yes, I am the sole sponsor then. Thank you!

Just now, Wuozopo said:

I don't understand the question. You are the American so you don't have a sponsor. You are the sponsor who fills out an affidavit of support I-134

I am the American and I make enough money that I don't need a sponsor. Maybe I'm confused lol. To fill out the i-134, would I be the sponsor?

10 hours ago, Wuozopo said:

Probably not anymore since they started asking if it is for immigration and started putting it on the police certificate.

 

I think you're going to find London is more chill than everything you read in the K1 forums and progress threads.  You know you don't need ongoing proof of relationship for London. They basically want to see her Documents like passport, police certificate, affidavit of support and have a short chat. 

Well that would be a lot easier. I've been so confused because the sight said you need the court records and the SAR said that same exact thing as the police certificate. I really hope they are chill. I am actually the petitioner from the US and my fiance is from the UK. Really the only thing I've been stressing about is his criminal record since they count cautions. But I think if they will just listen to him they won't see it as an issue, at least that's my hope lol. 

I do have another quick question... If I don't need a sponsor, are we still required to fill out the affidavit of support?

2 hours ago, Wuozopo said:

London embassy website says 12 months. 

On a side note, the police certificate used to not reveal any spent convictions and the SAR was required to get the info. I have noticed lately that people say they have the exact same information. I think ACRO has made a slight change and now asks if the police report is for immigration. That would explain why they send you a report with all the hidden stuff on it. If it was for employment, they would leave off things that were stepped down or expired.

Oh okay. I may need to reorder then. We ordered it last May. And yes, we had to have a police certificate for his work, and it shows No Record. When we went to get it for the visa, there's a box asking if it's not a visa or immigration, and it shows everything from cautions and juvenile record along with the dates, charges, and disposal. I wonder if the SAR is even needed since they say the exact same thing?

29 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

If this is for the interview, you normally only need to order the Subject Access Report in addition to the police certificate from ACRO. It would reveal any spent or juvenile conviction details. 

Okay thank you. I have both. Do you know how long they are good for? I've been told a year and then I've been told 6 months.

2 minutes ago, Wuozopo said:

If this is for the interview, you normally only need to order the Subject Access Report in addition to the police certificate from ACRO. It would reveal any spent or juvenile conviction details. 

I have the Police Certificate and I have the SAR which say the same exact thing. the SAR just has his additional address and jobs and everything with it. But on the Police Certificate, it shows the date, the charge, and the disposal of 9 months probation and no costs ordered which is exactly the same thing the SAR shows. Someone told me that they had a juvenile case over 15 years ago and they were denied or got an RFE because he had to show the actual judgment of it being closed.

Hello,

 I'm trying to obtain court records for a juvenile case for my fiance from the UK. It was 10 years ago so I know they may have already destroyed records but hoping for at least a judgment. Any help on where to go for this? Thank you!

1 minute ago, thatguyuknow said:

Good, get the SAR and work from there. You can even get it online and have it emailed to you if you want rather than waiting on the post. 

If it were me I'd also start the process of getting all the court records (extract of conviction) together for the times he appeared in court. Hopefully they have them and they're not destroyed. If they are destroyed (the court records) then he should do an affidavit for the offences and get details from the court confirming why the records have been destroyed . For example in Scotland in terms of Statutory Instrument 1009 no.106 (2.8) the disposal of court records (scotland) regulations 1990 the court are only required to hold the records for a period of 10 years in summary proceedings. I'm sure it'll be the same in England but I dont know what it'll be. 

 

I know a bit about the Scottish court system based on my day job not from an immigration standpoint. 

 

Also if it were me I'd lawyer up, I know it's expensive but it's gotta be worth it for your family. I understand you can't advertise lawyers on here but hopefully an experienced member on here maybe able to point you to a good one. 

Yes, I will be getting all court records and also have a consult scheduled with an attorney. Thank you so much!

Just now, mindthegap said:

CRB stands for criminal records bureau, and a CRB check done within the Uk at a standard disclosure level (ie, for a regular job - not one working with children or vunerable, or requiring security clearance etc) will generally not show cautions, due to the rehabilitation of offenders act. Under this act, you are generally not required to disclose cautions, except, say for examples above, or for certain offences (such as sex offences)

 

However, this act does not apply under US immigration law, hence an ACRO police certificate shows everything. They are totally different things.

Yes, the ARCO police certificate showed everything. I also order the SAR as well even the the ARCO showed the charge and the disposal. 

Just now, mindthegap said:

And it definitely shows on his record?

 

I edited the incorrect links after you had quoted them. Correct ones:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/708595/cautions-guidance-2015.pdf

 

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

 

 

 

The only one it shows is the background check for the visa. When he was applying for VWP and passport, we order a criminal background check (we needed it for a new job) and it came back "NONE RECORDED" and same with his crb (I don't know what that is lol) says nothing. When we ordered the police certificate and had to click the box for 'visa' it showed all his cautions. That's why I was so confused. 

2 minutes ago, mindthegap said:

And that one showed up on his ACRO and SAR?

No way is that an official caution without signing for it - I unfortunately know from my own experience of accepting one (albeit a couple of decades ago and in hindsight solely due to questionable legal advice, but hey ho..), and it has changed again since in late 2013 to clarify that the consequences MUST be outlined and the offender sign:

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

 

 

That's what he said. I asked him what the papers said if he signed it and he asked me what papers? They just informed him they were going caution him for it. 🤷‍♀️

1 minute ago, Limey said:

Formal cautions of the type that go on a criminal record would normally be in writing. If he didn't sign anything then its unlikely that it was a formal caution.

 

To avoid confusion, there is a difference between the caution "you do not have to say anything, but ..." etc (note the one in the UK is now quite different to the US right) and a formal caution for an offense. They are completely different things - its unfortunate that they both use the term caution.

 

So if I'm arrested on suspicion of handling stolen goods, and the police "caution" me by saying "You do not have to say anything, but if you fail to mention when questioned..." etc then that isn't a formal caution, and won't go on my criminal record. However if you admit guilt and accept a caution (usually offered as an alternative to going to trial), then that will form part of your criminal record.

 

Also note that the US immigration process asks about arrests. So in the above case, you'd still need to admit to being arrested on suspicion of handling stolen goods, even if you weren't charged and didn't accept a formal caution.

 

I don't know too much about how the process for waivers works, but I would say

- 4 or 5 offenses is quite a few, and they are relatively serious as some involve violence, and carrying a weapon is also quite serious in England. It may be easier to get a pass for minor drug possession or DUI than for these sorts of crimes.
- much will depend on how long ago these offenses were, obviously if you can show no offending for eg 10 years or more, then a waiver is more likely than if they were only 5 years ago.

Let the forum know how you get on either way, as these types of posts are useful for others in the future.

All of this is so helpful! He said he signed nothing. They just told him I'm giving you a caution for such and such and he said okay rather than being arrested and having to go to court. Even for his once actual charge when he was a juvenile, he had never actually been arrested, just questioned. He said for that last caution, they told him since he admitted to buying it, they're cautioning him. I guess we will have to wait and see and I'll keep everyone updated! I've been trying to get people who have had a record and been interviewed to share their experience but I've only had one person talk about a shoplifting charge. 

3 minutes ago, Limey said:

I haven't read the entire thread, so apologies if someone has already explained this... in England and Wales a police caution is used for more minor offences where the criminal admits their guilt.

 

Its similar to turning up to court and pleading guilty, but without the cost of judges, lawyers etc. Normally the caution will have been issued at the police station, and the criminal would have had access to a solicitor (ie legal advice).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_caution

 

If you read the above you'll note that one of the purposes of the formal caution is

 

" to record an individual's criminal conduct for possible reference in future criminal proceedings or in criminal record or other similar checks; "

 

So don't be misled by the term - a caution isn't just a warning not to do something again, its essentially a guilty plea, but with no punishment attached, but it will form part of the criminal record.

 

I passed the equivalent of US bar exams in England/Wales 20 years ago but never practised in England, but I'm pretty sure not much has changed with regards to the status of a police caution since I studied this.

Hello,

 Thank you for replying! I understand it is essentially pleading guilty (I was simply stating how I felt on the topic since the law works different in the US) He doesn't deny the Simple Assault's when he was fighting. The last caution that could cause us issues, he said that cop told him that since he told him he was the one that purchased it, was getting cautioned, however he had no knowledge it was stolen. He said he signed nothing and it was all verbal. 

People get so hung up on the moral turpitude headline, when that is far from the be-all and end-all of it. Petty offence exception? Depends on max sentence.

Multiple crimes? Depends on max sentence....

I looked up his and they said community order (not sure what exactly that means?) and all 6 months max sentence. The common assaults all said fines if they went to court?  Not sure how that will work or if they will look that up. But thank you very much for all your help, it's greatly appreciated!   

2 hours ago, mindthegap said:

Correct. I did post a link to 212(2)(A) earlier but not sure if it was noticed...

https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-2006.html

(2) Criminal and related grounds.-

(A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

(i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense) or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime, or

(II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible.

(ii) Exception.-Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if-

(I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or

(II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

(B) Multiple criminal convictions.-Any alien convicted of 2 or more offenses (other than purely political offenses), regardless of whether the conviction was in a single trial or whether the offenses arose from a single scheme of misconduct and regardless of whether the offenses involved moral turpitude, for which the aggregate sentences to confinement ² were 5 years or more is inadmissible.

 

 

People get so hung up on the moral turpitude headline, when that is far from the be-all and end-all of it. Petty offence exception? Depends on max sentence.

Multiple crimes? Depends on max sentence....

 And then to confuse you even further, crimes in the UK have different sentences depending on what level they are....for example, the maximum sentence for handling stolen goods is 14 years at the highest offence level (page 15 here if you want to see for yourself: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/SC-Theft-Offences-Definitive-Guideline-content_FINAL-web_.pdf )

The devil is in the detail.

 

That he has five offences - three for assault, one for a knife, and one theft related - isn't great. The consular officer may look at it and see a repeated pattern of an offender that hasn't learned from their mistakes, especially given the relatively recent offences.

 

To answer your original question:

Ultimately they do not care what happened, as he admitted the offence - which to accept a caution in the UK, you MUST do, without exception. The verbal explanation, and paperwork that you must sign, is explicit in this regard.

 

Please don't think I'm busting your balls, I'm not.  Just giving my honest appraisal of the situation you find yourself in. But hey, none of us have done this journey because it is easy, right?

 

Thank you so much for all your help!

1 minute ago, Lemonslice said:

You might only be worried about one caution, but they'll review everything. Please come back when you receive his SAR.

I've already ordered that and i currently have it. It says the same exact thing the police certificate says. Gives the date, the charge, and the disposal which was a caution. SAR says the same thing, just has his prior address and such with it. 

1 minute ago, mindthegap said:

Post back what specific offences and bands he was convicted and cautioned for, and I will give you a detailed answer. If this info isn't on the ACRO then it will definitely be on his subject access report - which if he doesn't have right now, he will 100% need at a later date for this.

 

 It is all to do with the maximum possible sentence for that offence - not the sentence given.

 

 

Okay. I'm honestly only worried about his caution for the Handling Stolen Goods (receiving). I've read website after website and that's the most concerning one. It says it's a CMIT if it was knowingly done which his wasn't. He had literally just bought it after saving up for one for a while and had no idea. So I guess that's the one I have questions about.