Addie_Goodvibes

You might think that's a price worth paying, but then again unless you're the one negatively impacted by it - you won't be paying that price will you?

OK Number 6 you brought it on Lets talk about Negativly Impacted by:

EVERY Day LEGAL USA CITIZENS are Negativly Impacted by Illegal Immigrants

USA Middle class is Negativly Impacted by Illegal ALiens

Americas Social Services are Negativly Impacted by Illegals Criminals

Legal Liscensed USA Drivers are Negativly Impacted paying higher insurance because Illegal Aliens who defy the law and drive illegally everyday.

Legal Citizens /residents are Negativly Impacted by The Higher cost of Health care due to Illegal Aliens draing the respurces of Health care facilities.

Legal Tax paying Citizens & residents are Negativly Impacted by illegal Aliens Working illegally Not paying taxes yet putting the burden of supporting their ilegal criminal asses on the USA TAX PAYERS in tune of 10+ Billion / year.

So I could care less about the minor inconveneince of you having to occasionally be asked about your citizenship status. WHA F*@KING WHA!

Way to miss the point... I get your stance on illegal immigrants BTW - no need to capitalise everything

I don't think anyone here has advocated illegal immigration - merely that bringing draconian laws that have a general tendency to encourage profiling and instituational racism will invariably end up targeting a certain subset of the population in a negative way (i.e. USCs of a certain ethnic background). Thats partly my opinion, but again there is historical precedent for thinking this, based on similar laws that have been enacted elsewhere.

You might think that's a price worth paying, but then again unless you're the one negatively impacted by it - you won't be paying that price will you?

I am all for enforcing immigration laws with all the illegals Swedes, Asians, Scottish, & Irish As if..

Profiling is neccesary it is used in every aspect of law enforcement. Drug enforcement, homicides, Gang activity task force, & Illegal Immigrant raids. If the shoe fits!

Laws? They don't need no stinkin' laws. They do what they want. Laws don't apply to them. Anyone surprised there either?

That's the mentality of these people. These Sharptonites are a pitifull bunch

By the way these "Hispanic activists" are Illegal Activists and should be ashamed of their ranting and support for Illegal Criminals trying to make a racila issue out of a legal issue, they are the racists.

Its funny how these populations of illegals & activist for them are so desperate that thier last resort in hiding their Illegal behavior is to try to drop the race card and make it a racial issue.

The ICLU ( ACLU) jumps on any chance of making racial issues out of attempts at law enforcement.

All you Sharptonites are a sad bunch.

People shout 'racial profiling' because that's exactly what happens. Perfectly legal US citizens who happen to look 'wrong' are questioned disproportionately. If you were constantly required to prove your legal status, you might think twice about making such a statements.

Not if it meant ensuring our nations security, safety & Freedom.

I am all for enforcing immigration laws with all the illegals Swedes, Asians,Scottish, & Irish. profilimng is neccesary it is used in every aspect of law enforcement. Drug enforcement, homicides, Gang activity task force, & Illegal Immigrant raids. If the shoe fits!

If they are Illegal then they should be rounded up deported, if someone if Knowingly harbouring or employing thme they should also be arrested & prosecuted.

The chickens of the 3rd world are coming home to roost.

So are the Third world countries Citizens. Illegals are invading USA destroying our economy

bringing 3rd world economy right onto our doorstep

Yet If the USA tries to enforce its own laws to ensure our future security, prosparity & freedoms we are labeled as racists.

We should just sit and let The worlds poor enter illegally drain our social services and ruin our economy.

Yeah right

You may accept the loss of personal freedoms for 'the greater good' but most people aren't that keen on th idea...I wonder why?

IMO & the state of Oklahomas. showing ID doesn't quite count as a loss of personal freedoms.

What does, in "your opinion"?

extreme lefters pathetic attempt to emposse their beliefs upon me.

Assuming that the phrase "extreme lefter" is directed at me (or not - it really doesn't matter), how exactly are people here trying to "impose" their beliefs on you?

Is a forum discussion really that threatening to you?

yes, it was directed at you....by constantly telling me & other who don't agree w/ you, that we are wrong & that "right minded" & "correct thinking" people feel "this" way....and no, i don't feel threatened by you.

Glad to see that you're applying political labels to me based on my actual positions on a range of issues and not mere personal dislike

And I didn't say "threatened by me" I said "threatened by a forum discussion". And clearly you are - if you think that people are trying to "impose beliefs" on you. I haven't done any such thing - I merely stated my opinion, which you responded to with abject ridicule. I suggest you go back and read my post again (you won't of course).

YADA YADA YADA

POINT IS Illegals and their advocates are launching all-out assault on USA for enforcing it's laws. It has nothing to do with human rights or freedoms, or racial profiling, You break the law you pay the price.

If the Illegals don't like to hide in the shjadows and don't like to live in fear then they should self deport & Get The F*@K OUT.

arrested for transporting her boyfriend, who was an illegal alien

She should have been arrested

As for Hispnaics being afraid to call the police, well if they weren't criminals in hiding they wouldn't be afraid.

Maybe they shouldn't be living here illegally. If they are here Legally they know they have Nothing to worry about.

If they don't like to live in the shadows or live in feer of being arrested

Then they should self deport & GET THE F*@K out.

''It seems like an all-out assault on us for enforcing the law.''

Illegals and activist like to fuss and cry "racila Profiling" simply because USA is enforcing its own laws. It has nothing to do with race or human rights.

It is CUT & DRY The law is the law you break the law you pay the price.

THERE IS A WAY TO BECOME LEGAL, GET THE F*@K Back to where you entered illegally and apply LEGALLY like the rest of us have to do.

I for one would be extremely pi$$ed if I got pulled for something as simple as not wearing my seat belt and was asked my immigration status.

Let's see...you're not pissed off if they ask for your license for driving without a belt, but the sky is falling on your head if you are asked your residency status on the same traffic stop. You better not travel in the USA near the border because that is exactly what happens at interior US Border Patrol checkpoints well past the border in Texas.

As for me...I'm more pissed off that there are 20 million illegal aliens in my country with more arriving every day and nobody has the nuts to do anything about it. Nothing but "poor me" I live in a police state stories.

Thank You! Well Stated.

More states should conduct routine Check points for prrof of Dl & Insurnace

Are you advocating that police just stop people to check if they have a valid license regardless of whether they have broken another law or not? Just asking if that's your position. That would get up people's noses by the way, not just the noses of illegal immigrants.

IN CA THEY ALREADY DO CONDUCT ROUTINE CHECKS FOR DL & INSURANCE,

They set up cones along the a busy route and traffick is diverted in a similair way as a dui checkpoint.

I see them a few times / year as they always have one close to my work along the road i take to get to work.

It is perfectly legal and yes a minor inconvenience but neccesary to take unliscensed drivers off the streets.

They mostly juts ask you to show DL & proof of insurance and if you can present DL & Inurance they send you on your way,

If not they look further into status.

However, no person charged with violating this section shall be convicted if he produces in court or the office of the arresting officer a driver's license theretofore issued to him and valid at the time of his arrest.

In other words, it may be an offense, but you will not be convicted if you do actually have a license and in my experience (limited though this is) the police will not hassle you about it if you look 'right'.

In other words ... by the cited OK State law ... if you are not carrying your license when stopped ... you have to spend time and money to make your valid ID appear before the court date to nulify the ticket ... then no problem.

If you don't have a valid license ... conviction.

As for the rest ... "my experience (limited though this is) the police will not hassle you about it if you look 'right'." ... this was your limited experience ...

The Police will Not arrest you and will not always ticket you if you simply " forgot your liscense" They will verify your liscensed staust using your DOB & Info you provide at most give you a fix it ticket and make you present your liscense to a judge. simple usually minmal fine.

I have forgotten my liscense whne going to the Gym and was pulled over once . I gave them my DOB ss#, and the officer verified that I was liscensed to drive and sent me on my way. I did get a seat belt citation.

I think it's been answered ... and ignored ...

NC already does a check for legal residency …

NC DL Residency Requirements

The valid NC license covers the concern … so there is no concern.

Most states require the same, Illegals who drive are only risking getting caught in addition they are putting lives at risk and raising the cost for legal drivers to insure their vehicles.

Ca. does routines DL/Insurance Checks and i have driven through several one common thing I have noticed is that majority of the arrests from the check points involved unliscensed drivers and majority of those were mostly Illegal!

Att: Illegals YOU ARE Already here Illegally don't whine about enforcement if you dont want to get caught

Get a hint & don't continue to break the laws of this country by driving illegally.

WALK, TAKE THE BUS, Better YET GET THE F*@K OUT!

Thezse Illegals Like to play stupid games about how it is unfair to enforce laws or for our govt. to

find ways of protecting its citizens.

This is BS "cath me if you can" attitude of illegals,

THEY ARE NOT LEGALLY AUTHORIZED to be here and should NOT GET ANY BENEFITS or Special treatment

Police should be able to act on Tips from legals residnets then Move immediatly to enforce immigrtaion laws just the same as if

you witness a drug deal or theft you would contact the police they would investigate then move to deal with the crime that took place.

In the case of Illegals the federal crime is punshed by deportation. BOTTOM LINE

If you don't like it then don't break our laws and steal from our country & GET THE F*@K OUT come back legally!

My one incidence with the police was before I had my actual license. I had a temporary one for a while between taking the written test and taking the driven test. I didn't have any form of identification on me because I was going hiking. The police officer wasn't that bothered. I can only assume it was because I didn't look like 'a criminal'. Who can say?

YADA YADA YADA,

The Point in the OP is that OK is taking measures to enforce immigration Law and protecting the welfare and future of LEGAL OK residents.

More states will follow suit, and the ACLU can cry and scream all it wants there is nothing they can do about it.

The Law is the law, states like OK have the right to enforce the law and uphold the law.

Those who whine and complain about it obviously have something to worry about.

If you are legally Liscensed to drive and happen to forget your DL the officer can look up your information based on your name and D.O.B

So if you are legally liscensed you will NOT get arrested even if you forget your dl.(which in order to get dl you have to prove legal residancy ; BC, EAD,GC)

I think it is an excellent way of fighting illegal immigration, More states should conduct routine Check points for prrof of Dl & Insurnace if that happens to find illegals in the process then move to procede with immigration enforcement, just the same as if you are found in a routine checkpint and have warrants out or are not legally liscensed to drive you would get arrested & punished according to the crime you commited ( driving unliscensed, or revoked/suspended..ect..) You enter USA Illegally the penalty is deportation and ban.

from one of the local TV stations:

Immigration Law Questions Answered

KOTV - 11/1/2007 4:55 PM - Updated 11/1/2007 6:20 PM

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=138993

The police and Sheriff's Office both said Thursday that nothing changed overnight in the way they enforce the laws, but some Hispanics worry about round ups and roadblocks, which deputies and police say is not going to happen.

if the person is legal ... what's the worry? legal persons do carry identification with proper documentation ... yes?

if you're not legal ... now is the time to leave.

Exactly-

so anyone who does not have a US Govt. issued ID or state issued ID and committs a crime, they should be worried!

The new law requires an immigration status check on people who are under arrest. Some Hispanics worry anytime they encounter law enforcement they are subject to an immigration check, but police say only people without a drivers license need to worry. During a traffic stop, drivers without a license are typically arrested, and illegal immigrants are no exception. Law enforcement authorities say they will not check immigration status for routine matters like reporting crimes or helping police with information.

The idea that I as a U.S. citizen may have to prove my citizenship everytime I'm pulled over by a traffic cop is an infringement on my civil liberties. Not only that, it's making traffic cops in charge of immigration enforcement. Same with holding me prosecutable for my passenger's legal resident status.

Just another half-hearted attempt at trying to resolve a national issue on a local scale...without comprehensive, federal immigration reform, anothing less will be disasterous.

You're missing the boat on this one.

If you have a government issued driver's license from a state that doesn't issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens...then it is already a "given" that you are not an illegal alien. Have you ever refused to show a cop your driver's license when pulled over? Did you tell the cop he was infringing on your civil liberties? How far did that fly?

What is comprehensive immigration reform? Amnesty and a free ride for all the illegal aliens that broke into the USA already to clear the slate for the next 20 million to invade by passing more laws that won't be enforced?

Although I'm rightfully required to prove that I am driving legally in the state, I'm not required to prove to a traffic cop, my citizenship status.

When Jinky arrived here in CA, I looked into the state law requirements and found that she could legally drive here with her license from the PI until she established residency. I can imagine the legal quagmire we could have been potentially in if she had been pulled over by a traffic cop without any proof of legal residency while we were in AOS.

The pure fact that you are a liscensed Driver it is understood thast you had to prove legal residancy to pobtain the DL so of course there would be no question or need to inquire about you rimmigration status.

those who have a problem proving legal residancy Probably shouldn't be here in the first place.

I think our unifornmed Peace officers should be given juridiction in enforcing Immgration inter agnecy communication, round ups, Laws set in place such as OK making it a felony to employ or shelter illegal Aliens,

And denying socila services to those here Illegally are steps towrds the right direction.

Americans will not stand this invasion by these Illegal criminals who demand priviliages they Have no right to receive including Dl, Siocial services, medical coverage schooling ect..

I hop Ok sets a strong standard for other states to follow, change is coming so All those illegals who are hidng in the shadows, better pack your bags and be ready

ICE is on your tail.

Immigration enforcement

ICE

Border control

Border fence

Denial of all social services to anyone who can not prove legal status

GOOD ON OKLAHOMA!

Allowing local Govt. Agencies to police immigration laws and hold those responsible for enabling these Criminal Aliens

Too Bad California doesn't follow suit.

restrict illegals from public benefits makes sense

All Illegals Heads Up times are changing AMericans DO NOT

NEED YOU HERE

Do NOT WANT YOU HERE

AND WILL NOT BE QUIET AND LET YOU STAY HERE

What then would you suggest the punishment be for a person whose crime was to enter a country illegally? Again this is like shoplifting, steal a candy bar but we're not going to take it away, instead we let you keep it and then give you a job in the store you stole it from. Please help me see the light here.

Well, I've laid out some ideas earlier, but I can go over them again for clarity. I would start afresh. Strengthen borders. Go after firms hiring illegal workers. Introduce a guest worker program. If you are caught after that, deportation. Why is it OK then? Because there are other options available, and the roots have not been laid down. For those already here, a fine. Is everyone gonna be covered in that scenario? Absolutely not. Like I said earlier, I don't have all the answers, more's the pity. But is it better than what exists currently? I'd say so.

Out of curiosity, what would you do?

I think what would be fair is for the illegal immigrant to:

1. Pay all fees a lawful petitioner would be subject to.

2. Go through the same background and medical checks a lawful petitioner would be subject to.

3. Account for all earnings since entering the USA and pay all taxes and fines warranted.

4. Failure of any of these criteria would result in immediate and permanent expulsion from the USA and any accumulated wealth would be subject to all lawful Statutes and US Codes, including but not limited to: Forfeiture, fines and/or imprisonment.

That is what I would expect of the illegal immigrant. Now for the employers:

1. Account for the proper identification of all employees to insure compliance with federal immigration & DHS laws.

2. Insure all tax laws are being complied with.

3. Insure all wage and workers comp laws are being complied with.

4. Insure all minimum wage and child labor laws are being complied with.

5. Severe penalties for those who fail to meet all criteria.

The federal Government:

1. Put into effect enforceable laws and security measures to insure compliance with all immigration issues.

2. Enforce said laws.

4. Give border states and POE states authority to act as required to uphold federal immigration laws.

5. All politicians quit giving the issue lip service and do something about it!

Tall order but if we concentrate on our own country and less on someone else's we might just be able to get somewhere.

I agree with you here with an addition to a few thiungs. Illegals should be cut off from ALL social services / benefits Until all Fines are paid back taxes, and penalities and they have paid all fees for immigration process. Then & ONLY then should they be allowed access to services. They should also not be permitted to work unitl they are legally allowed BY LAW to do so. Wait if all this were to tak eplace they woul dbe Forced to SELF deport. Excellent idea!

Interesting that the "illegal haters" here have yet to take on the forum members who themselves are "illegal," that is, they have overstayed and are therefore here illegally and breaking the law, but are adjusting status by virtue of marriage to an American citizen. Why haven't you lashed out at their partners who post here looking for advice? I don't advocate this approach, but I don't understand why you unleash your fury only on hypothetical groups of people rather than actual individuals.

Even though I touched on this earlier in this thread, I will write it specifically to you NOW.

As long as you have the NOA for the AOS paperwork, the status is not considered illegal, despite the out of status on the visa...

My wife was taking a free English class (the school is funded in part with state funds), last year one of the issuse Arizona voted on was should those who cannot prove legal status in the US be allowed to partake in state funded programs...Arizona said NO!

GOOD ON ARIZONA too bad more states don't follow this example.

I know I've come a bit late to this thread, but couldn't help but wonder if any of you have ever met an illegal imigrant and had a conversation with them and gotten to know why they are here and what their life is like.

I have, and I have some real sympathy for them. There are plenty of them here in Miami. Even if they imigrated for the wrong reasons, many of them feel they can't go back for whatever reason and they would like to be legal in a place they call home. I actually know a few who have a SSN and pay their taxes, but don't have valid paperwork anymore. Many places that hire illegals only require that they have a SSN, they don't check the papers... So, they do pay into the system mostly with hope that if they do, the laws will eventually change and if they can prove they haven't been delinquent they will be allowed to change their status. I say a large part of the fault is letting people work without papers with a SSN on file and not tracking them down by the use of that SSN... Most illegals I know actually pay taxes on their paychecks, it's just that the employers don't check for work papers

It's a large problem, and it will be interesting to see what happens. I'm just glad I'm trying to get my habbibi (fiance) here legally

My wife and I also have met many immigrants without permission and yes they all work hard and are here to provide for their families. They are not against paying taxes and the ones that can pay do. They understand they broke a law but what is the alternative for them back home? They would be extremely poor and their children would have no opportunities. I know many American feel this is no excuse and we should deport them all but we don't agree. There has to be some middle ground.

The middle groujnd is they rigjht the wrong they did, by going back to thier country of origin and ebntering through legal means, they should NOT be allowed to stay where is the equality or justice that? They ARE TAKING OPPORTUNITIES AWAY FROM AMERICAN CHILDREN.

Most illegal immigrants pay taxes, but cannot recieve the benefits that they bring becasue of their lack of status.

That dog don't hunt. The illegal crowd causes a net costs this country to the tune of around $10 billion p.a.

Exactly & They DON't pay taxes because they hav eno social Security number, they drain the tax system and they earn money working illegally anything earned illegally should be forfieted.

So what your saying is if it wasnt for the illegal aliens, our government's social services would be living within its means. Our taxes would be less and our schools would be better.

Ok, lets just ignore the work that is being done by those 20 million people, it doesnt contribute at all to our economy right?

Did you think about this argument before posting it? Let's take this one more step and just make Mexico our 51st state.

Why Not advocates for illegal immigration must favor tunring USA into a 3rd world. They are short sighted and ignorant of they don't understand that the cost of illegals out weighs they minimal contribution, they do contribute other things like crime, drugs & draining of resources meant for USA citizens & legal residents

Thats such a crock Addie. Hurting our country..pfft...

Yeah, maybe because of cheap illegal labor, a contruction worker's wages are down by 2 bucks an hour. But alot of good that extra money will do when the costs of goods and services double or triple because of soaring demand due to unfilled positions traditionally filled by illegals.

Yeah, our healthcare social nets are burdened by them...but dont even pretend they are the cause of that fustercluck. The powers to be are using them as scape goats as far a social services are concerned. Same with the public education system.

And as for our national security, when I see a landscaper convert his leaf blower into a rocket launcher, I will buy that arguement.

Well, the logical solution is to create a path for legalization that is longer and more expensive than doing it the right way. Short sighted people think they can simply slap a fine on them and have them pay back taxes. I am a US citizen and I can barely keep up with my current taxes. I suggested they pay off their fine by doing government service work..

You even admit that USA citizens are burdened with paying their taxes why do you think that is, Where do you think thiose tax dollars are going.

Medical insuranc eis Going up why? Because the influx of these Leeching Illegals who put NOTHING into a system they dry up. And Education in a lot of areas populated by illegals is being compromised. I do not know what planet or rose garden you live near but you are blind if you dont see the Real effect these Illegals have on the USA economy & Security.

I do Not agree with fining them or making them pay back taxes, that is too easy they also have to pay restitution ofr the social services the ILLEGAL Obtained. anything obtained illegal shoul dbe paid back, that menas if they earned money here whjile illegal thye should pay forfeit it to the Govt. if they took adavantage of social services they shoul dpay for those, and of course they should be sent back home. The after ALL FINES & Penaties are paid and they wait a 5 year ban then allply for CONSIDERATION for re-entry BEHIND EVERYONE who is going through the process legally.

AND I WIll Have You Know Those Leaf Blowers are harmful to the environment

Thats such a crock Addie. Hurting our country..pfft...

Yeah, maybe because of cheap illegal labor, a contruction worker's wages are down by 2 bucks an hour. But alot of good that extra money will do when the costs of goods and services double or triple because of soaring demand due to unfilled positions traditionally filled by illegals.

Yeah, our healthcare social nets are burdened by them...but dont even pretend they are the cause of that fustercluck. The powers to be are using them as scape goats as far a social services are concerned. Same with the public education system.

And as for our national security, when I see a landscaper convert his leaf blower into a rocket launcher, I will buy that arguement.

6 of the 9/11 terrorist entered uninspected through our southern border.

And you are jaded if you don't see the cost of illegal Immigrants. I never stated anything about American workers wages.

All this whining about how High the cost of enforcement would be is BS, all it takes is cooperation between agencies sharing data bases and tracking records.

I suppose the same people who are taking 150 days to process my K1 can handle the additional 'seasonal' petitions of 20 million people under your temp worker program.

Noted Good point. However, A temp worker prograsm is better than letting them all stay and giving blanket amnesty while you have to wait 150 days for your K1 and You have to pay 100.00- 1000.00 of $$ to do the process legally.

USA is not the only country in the world where people migrate to...they migrate to all different sorts of countries for all different sorts of reasons...also USCs migrate to other countries cuz they prefer living somewhere else....people who migrate are still people (not things like some other people try to treat them) and a lot of them are good people Let´s be nice to each other

This is not about being nice or de humanization, These " good people" as you so kindly labled them are lhurting out country, compromising the security, wellbeing prosparity of our nations future.

They are a drain on the education, Health care, Housing and social services. Americans are being forced into a permanant sub middle class due to the influx of all these "good people" these "good people" like to steal from the govt,. they like to drive illegally, commit violent crimes such as rape , robbery or murder, they like to drink & drive unliscensed. These people are not "nice people" thye are a drain to the USA economy and safety.

What about all the Good people who happen to be USA citizens or leghal residents who have families to support, who have to pay for the education and health care for all these CRIMINAL ILLEGALS, USA citizens pay more for helath care often resulting in thme not being able to support their family, USA citizens & Legal residents PAY TAXES on their earnings, so social services are there for LEGAL residents or USA citizens. Children of illegals Drain the education system taking resources away lowering education standards. thes ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALIENS or as you like to call them "good people" are doing more than simply working they are detroying America. There is Legal Migration and illegal, Thiose who chose to go about the process Illegally deserve no respect or leniancy. They deserve a swift kick in the ####### back to where they came.