Deported mom spurred changes in arrest guidelines for immigrant families

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The distortion appears to extend to reading what isn't there too.

What I said: Seems quite clear that illegal aliens do not routinely pose a serious risk to society so they shouldn't be treated as if they do.

and some supportive statements.

What you seem to see instead:

Illegal aliens should be treated with kid gloves and favoured above US citizens.

Seriously distorted, but if that's what you want it to say, go ahead and think that. However, I am not going to start trying to defend a position I don't hold...again.

They are all a serious risk to society by the very fact that they disrespected our laws to get here and stay here. That their nonchalant attitude toward the rule of law is permeating our society is a shot over the bow that must be contained. Blatant illegality, the support of it, and the notion that you can break the law if you are "nice" or "hard working" is not a proper standard to set. Some among us insist on "dumbing down" our social norms in more ways than simply encouraging illegals in order to accomodate those who won't or can't maintain higher standards of behavior. You can bet that there will always be those who don't want to accept nor model that.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Those in favor of waterboarding are sadists or torture lovers.

Those who want to legalize marijuana are pothead lovers.

Those who like peanut butter are jelly haters.

My mommy can kick your mommy's #######.

[mawilson 2,133]

On Oct. 26, Sayda Umanzor — who sometimes spells her first name Saida.

And that was her undoing. They must have thought she was an Arab and flagged her for extra security screening.

[Drew and Tik 0]

How about a compromise? Allow her to nurse while she's incarcerated? Better yet, deport both the mother and child at the same time so they don't have to be separated. You really can't make exceptions and say someone shouldn't be arrested for a crime because they're nursing, and who is to say what a serious threat to society is? Some may say that the very presence of someone not documented is a serious threat.

So yeah, let her nurse, but still keep her in jail.

[Caladan 19]

How about a compromise? Allow her to nurse while she's incarcerated? Better yet, deport both the mother and child at the same time so they don't have to be separated. You really can't make exceptions and say someone shouldn't be arrested for a crime because they're nursing, and who is to say what a serious threat to society is? Some may say that the very presence of someone not documented is a serious threat.

So yeah, let her nurse, but still keep her in jail.

If you read the article, nowhere is it suggested that having a nursing baby is a reason not to be arrested. For all we know the new "guideline" is to allow the mother a breast pump while in the cell, or to allow periodic visitation for nursing mothers.

You can't really claim to be on the side of logic and reason if your biggest complaint with the article is that it doesn't mention the amenities provided to citizens who are arrested (probably because ICE doesn't arrest citizens for immigration offenses, but let's not trouble our heads about petty things like jurisdiction.) It would be sort of irrelevant, given that guidelines would be internal to the individual law enforcement agency and covered by local policy.

[Drew and Tik 0]

"That same day, immigration agents and field supervisors nationwide received guidelines instructing them to show greater consideration when arresting parents of young children and to avoid jailing nursing mothers unless they pose a serious risk to society."

The way that reads to me is "don't arrest illegal immigrants if they're nursing." I could be wrong, but it's worded to seem that way for sure.

[Caladan 19]

"That same day, immigration agents and field supervisors nationwide received guidelines instructing them to show greater consideration when arresting parents of young children and to avoid jailing nursing mothers unless they pose a serious risk to society."

The way that reads to me is "don't arrest illegal immigrants if they're nursing." I could be wrong, but it's worded to seem that way for sure.

I read that as enough room to argue that flight risks (almost anyone) could still be arrested. Most of the time (just because they're easier to track) immigration chases down illegals who have committed crimes other than EWI, so there's even more reason to argue that they pose a risk.

[peejay 327]

How about a compromise? Allow her to nurse while she's incarcerated? Better yet, deport both the mother and child at the same time so they don't have to be separated. You really can't make exceptions and say someone shouldn't be arrested for a crime because they're nursing, and who is to say what a serious threat to society is? Some may say that the very presence of someone not documented is a serious threat.

So yeah, let her nurse, but still keep her in jail.

The whole point of these articles published by the pro-illegal alien newspapers such as the Houston Chronicle (aka: the Houston Comical) is to propagandize for mass blanket amnesty for illegal aliens and for a wide open southern border. Why? It's good for rich people (like newspaper owners) with editions en Español and for seedy businesses that hire and cater to the illegal alien community (of whom 80+% are Hispanic). While the vast majority of American society bears the burdens of mass uncontrolled illegal immigration.

My favorite tid-bit of deceptive propaganda is that "masses of US citizens are deported" in ICE raids. By convenient omission, it is insinuated that these people are deported because they "look illegal" (i.e.: Hispanic). What is really occurring is that the US born minor children of deportable illegal alien parents are returning with their parents to their parents' country of origin. These child "US citizens" are not being deported. These minor children are also citizens of their parents' country of origin and are not stateless either.

These stories are published to make the US government (and the American people by proxy) appear to be the bad guy in all this. This story about the "detained nursing mom" falls into that catagory.

Edited November 24, 2007 by peejay

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Those in favor of waterboarding are sadists or torture lovers.

Those who want to legalize marijuana are pothead lovers.

Those who like peanut butter are jelly haters.

My mommy can kick your mommy's #######.

Beg to differ brother Steve.... mi madre can kick ANYONE'S #######

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Those in favor of waterboarding are sadists or torture lovers.

Those who want to legalize marijuana are pothead lovers.

Those who like peanut butter are jelly haters.

My mommy can kick your mommy's #######.

Beg to differ brother Steve.... mi madre can kick ANYONE'S #######

That would make her a bonafide ####### kicker, sis.

[trueimage 0]

The second catch is supposed to constitute a felony, but at some ports of entry, an illegal has to be caught 15 times before they're punished and jailed. Tell me, what felony could a legal commit 14 times before they're punished. Don't try to tell me there's not a separate justice system for illegals. There undoubtedly is. How often do we get to choose what crime is a real crime and which is not, based on your nationality?

Anyone who thinks that women with children shouldn't be separated from their children naturally applauds when the children, American born or not, are sent back to the old country along with mom, no?

Not true.

Besides, daily women criminals are forced to give up their babies to go do time. How are illegals being treated differently? Women who are locked up and pregnant are taken to the hospital for delivery while handcuffed to the delivery table and never allowed to even hold their baby or see it again after the delivery while they're in the hospital let alone even hold it. If they're lucky enough to be locked up on a facility that allows contact visits, they can hold their baby if someone brings it to visitation. If they are not in a contact visit facility, they will see their baby through glass.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

What I said: Seems quite clear that illegal aliens do not routinely pose a serious risk to society so they shouldn't be treated as if they do.

Whether they are nice people or not is irrelevant to law and order.

Well, law and order are two very different things. Laws clearly do not lead to order; they're just rules that in theory can be enforced. Laws are not necessarily based on ethics, morals, popular opinion, or welfare of society at large. Would be that they were.

Opinion differs so much on the matter of immigration because many people feel that the supposed immigration laws are, in a word, a joke. Equating people who enter the country illegally to work and vicious criminals is absurd and does not further the argument.

[peejay 327]

What I said: Seems quite clear that illegal aliens do not routinely pose a serious risk to society so they shouldn't be treated as if they do.

Whether they are nice people or not is irrelevant to law and order.

Well, law and order are two very different things. Laws clearly do not lead to order; they're just rules that in theory can be enforced. Laws are not necessarily based on ethics, morals, popular opinion, or welfare of society at large. Would be that they were.

Opinion differs so much on the matter of immigration because many people feel that the supposed immigration laws are, in a word, a joke. Equating people who enter the country illegally to work and vicious criminals is absurd and does not further the argument.

So you are saying that it is moral, ethical, popular, and good for America for illegal aliens to enter our country illegally, work illegally, and use identity theft, fraud, and counterfeit documents to do so?

Yes...they are not vicious criminals...they are merely common criminals. In your scenario anarchy clearly does not lead to order. The only joke going on is on the American people who, at the rate this going, will soon find ourselves living in a banana republic.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think we should stop reading things into people's statements that simply aren't there...

Also if people are really that that offended by people playing the "race card" on this issue, it would probably help to avoid using terms like "Banana Republic" (i.e. a grotesque stereotype) that does nothing for your legitimate arguments.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The second catch is supposed to constitute a felony, but at some ports of entry, an illegal has to be caught 15 times before they're punished and jailed. Tell me, what felony could a legal commit 14 times before they're punished. Don't try to tell me there's not a separate justice system for illegals. There undoubtedly is. How often do we get to choose what crime is a real crime and which is not, based on your nationality?

Anyone who thinks that women with children shouldn't be separated from their children naturally applauds when the children, American born or not, are sent back to the old country along with mom, no?

Not true.

I'm not sure which part of my post you don't believe to be true, so I will addres them both.

The part about "Catch and release" up to 15 times is true. This is a blurb from whitehouse.gov regarding the practice.

2. The Administration Will Maintain The Policy Of "Catch And Return" For Illegal Aliens Apprehended At The Border. For years, limited detention space forced the release of many illegal border crossers from nations other than Mexico with nothing more than a Notice to Appear for a hearing before an immigration judge. Many aliens ignored these notices and instead blended into U.S. society. The Administration has ended this practice and instituted a policy of "catch and return," ensuring that all removable aliens caught trying to cross the border illegally are held until they can be removed.

"Catch and release" is a practice that is acknowledged by border authorities when dealing with illegals at the border areas. They have been allowed to catch and release the same illegals up to 15 times before detaining them as a felon. That is in addition to the fact that illegals ordered deported are released on bail never to appear for deportation or deportation hearings. It is also in addition to those who serve time for criminal activity, and because of santuary policies, are released back into the population, not turned over to ICE.

The question about applauding native children being deported with their parent(s) is rhetorical, meant to present the contradictions in the argument from illegal lovers that preach keeping families together as part of their amnesty agenda.

Besides, daily women criminals are forced to give up their babies to go do time. How are illegals being treated differently? Women who are locked up and pregnant are taken to the hospital for delivery while handcuffed to the delivery table and never allowed to even hold their baby or see it again after the delivery while they're in the hospital let alone even hold it. If they're lucky enough to be locked up on a facility that allows contact visits, they can hold their baby if someone brings it to visitation. If they are not in a contact visit facility, they will see their baby through glass.

Illegals are being treated differently in that they are being released when legals are not due to pressure by illegal lovers and the soft hearts of those who don't believe illegal entry into the country makes a person illegal. The artcle says to "avoid jailing" nursing mothers, it does not say they shouod be jailed, then allowed to pump milk and have visitations with their babies.

I said early on in this thread that if they do this for ALL detainees and not ony for illegals, I didn't see that as a problem.