Oklahoma targets illegal immigrants with tough new law

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Fact is, Prop. 200 required showing proper ID to register to vote, such as a State Issued ID card. the ACLU decided that people who (for whatever reason) could not get one ($12 at the MVD, and I believe EVERYONE should have 1!) or a Birth Certificate (should have one of these also, if not, whose fault is that?)

These were NOT special voter ID cards but merely State issuded ID cards.

On Sept. 20, the House approved H.R. 4844, the Federal Election Integrity Act. Starting in 2010, the bill would require all voters to present a photo identification card at the polls as proof of citizenship. The only form of photo identification that currently meets this requirement is a U.S. passport.

The bill also requires states to issue a new ID. It appears that many members of Congress believe states will do this by enhancing their driver’s license processes to allow for proof of citizenship.

Photo Voter Registration Cards?

The House bill encourages states to pass the requirement down to counties or any other local government that handles voter registration. It offers partial federal funding - but only if the ID cannot be used for any purpose other than voting. This would prohibit use of federal funds to issue a Real ID (see sidebar) and encourage states to require counties to take on the burden of determining the citizenship of everyone appearing on the voter rolls and issuing new photo voter registration cards.

While the bill does allow states or counties to charge a fee for issuing the new ID card, any such fee is capped at the "reasonable cost." Recent court decisions suggest that even such fees might be overruled as a poll tax in violation of the 24th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

States are required to issue the cards, free of charge, to anyone who signs an affidavit stating that they cannot afford it. The federal government will not pay for the cost of issuing cards to all voters, but may reimburse states for this cost. There is no guarantee of funding, which would be subject to annual appropriations by Congress.

Four Democrats and three Republicans crossed party lines on H.R. 4844 in a vote that otherwise split right down the aisle, given the partisan atmosphere of the final weeks prior to the November midterm elections.

NACo remained silent on whether photo identification should be required for voting, but sent a letter of opposition to H.R. 4844.

The letter pointed out that the Congressional Budget Office has determined that the bill creates an intergovernmental mandate with costs that far exceed the threshold in the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act. According to CBO’s figures, states or counties would incur approximately $570 million in costs to issue new photo identification cards to all voters without a current U.S. Passport by 2010, of which a maximum of $70 million would be reimbursable by the federal government.

http://www.naco.org/Template.cfm?Section=f...ContentID=21470

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

The idea that I as a U.S. citizen may have to prove my citizenship everytime I'm pulled over by a traffic cop is an infringement on my civil liberties. Not only that, it's making traffic cops in charge of immigration enforcement. Same with holding me prosecutable for my passenger's legal resident status.

Just another half-hearted attempt at trying to resolve a national issue on a local scale...without comprehensive, federal immigration reform, anothing less will be disasterous.

You're missing the boat on this one.

If you have a government issued driver's license from a state that doesn't issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens...then it is already a "given" that you are not an illegal alien. Have you ever refused to show a cop your driver's license when pulled over? Did you tell the cop he was infringing on your civil liberties? How far did that fly?

What is comprehensive immigration reform? Amnesty and a free ride for all the illegal aliens that broke into the USA already to clear the slate for the next 20 million to invade by passing more laws that won't be enforced?

Although I'm rightfully required to prove that I am driving legally in the state, I'm not required to prove to a traffic cop, my citizenship status.

When Jinky arrived here in CA, I looked into the state law requirements and found that she could legally drive here with her license from the PI until she established residency. I can imagine the legal quagmire we could have been potentially in if she had been pulled over by a traffic cop without any proof of legal residency while we were in AOS.

The pure fact that you are a liscensed Driver it is understood thast you had to prove legal residancy to pobtain the DL so of course there would be no question or need to inquire about you rimmigration status.

those who have a problem proving legal residancy Probably shouldn't be here in the first place.

I think our unifornmed Peace officers should be given juridiction in enforcing Immgration inter agnecy communication, round ups, Laws set in place such as OK making it a felony to employ or shelter illegal Aliens,

And denying socila services to those here Illegally are steps towrds the right direction.

Americans will not stand this invasion by these Illegal criminals who demand priviliages they Have no right to receive including Dl, Siocial services, medical coverage schooling ect..

I hop Ok sets a strong standard for other states to follow, change is coming so All those illegals who are hidng in the shadows, better pack your bags and be ready

ICE is on your tail.

Immigration enforcement

ICE

Border control

Border fence

Denial of all social services to anyone who can not prove legal status

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The idea that I as a U.S. citizen may have to prove my citizenship everytime I'm pulled over by a traffic cop is an infringement on my civil liberties. Not only that, it's making traffic cops in charge of immigration enforcement. Same with holding me prosecutable for my passenger's legal resident status.

Just another half-hearted attempt at trying to resolve a national issue on a local scale...without comprehensive, federal immigration reform, anothing less will be disasterous.

You're missing the boat on this one.

If you have a government issued driver's license from a state that doesn't issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens...then it is already a "given" that you are not an illegal alien. Have you ever refused to show a cop your driver's license when pulled over? Did you tell the cop he was infringing on your civil liberties? How far did that fly?

What is comprehensive immigration reform? Amnesty and a free ride for all the illegal aliens that broke into the USA already to clear the slate for the next 20 million to invade by passing more laws that won't be enforced?

Although I'm rightfully required to prove that I am driving legally in the state, I'm not required to prove to a traffic cop, my citizenship status.

When Jinky arrived here in CA, I looked into the state law requirements and found that she could legally drive here with her license from the PI until she established residency. I can imagine the legal quagmire we could have been potentially in if she had been pulled over by a traffic cop without any proof of legal residency while we were in AOS.

The pure fact that you are a liscensed Driver it is understood thast you had to prove legal residancy to pobtain the DL so of course there would be no question or need to inquire about you rimmigration status.

In the case of my wife, she could legally drive here with a Philippines DL, and could NOT get a license once her I-94 expired. She was at that point, Out of Status, although not here illegally, unable to prove with photo ID her legal status to a traffic cop, but driving with a legally recognized ID (her PI DL).

There is a clear distinction between proving legal ability to drive in a particular state and proving U.S. Citizenship. With the exception of a U.S. Passport, there really is now photo ID that someone can carry to prove legal status and in the case of someone like my wife, who was out of status, from June 1st until she received her Green Card on October 6th, she had no legal ID that a traffic cop could accept as proof that she is here legally.

[eau_xplain 2]

Some points of this law cause discomfort and unease. I'm not in OK but if such a law was introduced in NC, I'd definitely want to know the full details of the law and what the "implementing" procedures would look like.

First, proving citizenship/legal status. Right now I have my nice little green card to show proof that I am here legally. But, when I apply for and become a citizen, do I have to carry a copy of my certificate of citizenship with me all the time?

Secondly, does/will the law allow for proper education of those who are implementing/enforcing this law? A sorry experience we had with getting a student permit for our son at a local DMV office here in NC shows that these front-liners are not properly trained about immigration and yet they are expected to enforce it in the course of doing their work.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Some points of this law cause discomfort and unease. I'm not in OK but if such a law was introduced in NC, I'd definitely want to know the full details of the law and what the "implementing" procedures would look like.

First, proving citizenship/legal status. Right now I have my nice little green card to show proof that I am here legally. But, when I apply for and become a citizen, do I have to carry a copy of my certificate of citizenship with me all the time?

Secondly, does/will the law allow for proper education of those who are implementing/enforcing this law? A sorry experience we had with getting a student permit for our son at a local DMV office here in NC shows that these front-liners are not properly trained about immigration and yet they are expected to enforce it in the course of doing their work.

I agree. These are the issues that concern me as well. The potential legal quagmire that most of the foreign spouses here could be in, under certain situations makes me wonder why there seems to be a lack of foresight by many members here.

[no name 1]

The idea that I as a U.S. citizen may have to prove my citizenship everytime I'm pulled over by a traffic cop is an infringement on my civil liberties. Not only that, it's making traffic cops in charge of immigration enforcement. Same with holding me prosecutable for my passenger's legal resident status.

Just another half-hearted attempt at trying to resolve a national issue on a local scale...without comprehensive, federal immigration reform, anothing less will be disasterous.

You're missing the boat on this one.

If you have a government issued driver's license from a state that doesn't issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens...then it is already a "given" that you are not an illegal alien. Have you ever refused to show a cop your driver's license when pulled over? Did you tell the cop he was infringing on your civil liberties? How far did that fly?

What is comprehensive immigration reform? Amnesty and a free ride for all the illegal aliens that broke into the USA already to clear the slate for the next 20 million to invade by passing more laws that won't be enforced?

Although I'm rightfully required to prove that I am driving legally in the state, I'm not required to prove to a traffic cop, my citizenship status.

When Jinky arrived here in CA, I looked into the state law requirements and found that she could legally drive here with her license from the PI until she established residency. I can imagine the legal quagmire we could have been potentially in if she had been pulled over by a traffic cop without any proof of legal residency while we were in AOS.

The pure fact that you are a liscensed Driver it is understood thast you had to prove legal residancy to pobtain the DL so of course there would be no question or need to inquire about you rimmigration status.

In the case of my wife, she could legally drive here with a Philippines DL, and could NOT get a license once her I-94 expired. She was at that point, Out of Status, although not here illegally, unable to prove with photo ID her legal status to a traffic cop, but driving with a legally recognized ID (her PI DL).

There is a clear distinction between proving legal ability to drive in a particular state and proving U.S. Citizenship. With the exception of a U.S. Passport, there really is now photo ID that someone can carry to prove legal status and in the case of someone like my wife, who was out of status, from June 1st until she received her Green Card on October 6th, she had no legal ID that a traffic cop could accept as proof that she is here legally.

Her PI DL is not proof of her being in the USA legally.....?

My hubby carried his passport & a copy of his NOA1 until he received his green card. I believe everyone else should (HAS?) too, as proof of legal status. Including Jinky.

Edited November 5, 2007 by devilette

[natty bumppo 289]

The idea that I as a U.S. citizen may have to prove my citizenship everytime I'm pulled over by a traffic cop is an infringement on my civil liberties. Not only that, it's making traffic cops in charge of immigration enforcement. Same with holding me prosecutable for my passenger's legal resident status.

Just another half-hearted attempt at trying to resolve a national issue on a local scale...without comprehensive, federal immigration reform, anothing less will be disasterous.

You're missing the boat on this one.

If you have a government issued driver's license from a state that doesn't issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens...then it is already a "given" that you are not an illegal alien. Have you ever refused to show a cop your driver's license when pulled over? Did you tell the cop he was infringing on your civil liberties? How far did that fly?

What is comprehensive immigration reform? Amnesty and a free ride for all the illegal aliens that broke into the USA already to clear the slate for the next 20 million to invade by passing more laws that won't be enforced?

Although I'm rightfully required to prove that I am driving legally in the state, I'm not required to prove to a traffic cop, my citizenship status.

When Jinky arrived here in CA, I looked into the state law requirements and found that she could legally drive here with her license from the PI until she established residency. I can imagine the legal quagmire we could have been potentially in if she had been pulled over by a traffic cop without any proof of legal residency while we were in AOS.

The pure fact that you are a liscensed Driver it is understood thast you had to prove legal residancy to pobtain the DL so of course there would be no question or need to inquire about you rimmigration status.

In the case of my wife, she could legally drive here with a Philippines DL, and could NOT get a license once her I-94 expired. She was at that point, Out of Status, although not here illegally, unable to prove with photo ID her legal status to a traffic cop, but driving with a legally recognized ID (her PI DL).

There is a clear distinction between proving legal ability to drive in a particular state and proving U.S. Citizenship. With the exception of a U.S. Passport, there really is now photo ID that someone can carry to prove legal status and in the case of someone like my wife, who was out of status, from June 1st until she received her Green Card on October 6th, she had no legal ID that a traffic cop could accept as proof that she is here legally.

welcome to the world created by the illegal lovers. reap what you sow.

fortunately my wife and I have chosen a different route ... view my profile and it shows ... it is not the K1. We chose our route for many reasons ... this is one example.

[pedroh 21]

that's a good question.. once you're a citizen, how do you prove someone you're a citizen? there's no citizen card, and you don't have a green card anymore.. so how does it work? would a cop believe a furriner he/she is a citizen just by word?

[Cassie 8]

that's a good question.. once you're a citizen, how do you prove someone you're a citizen? there's no citizen card, and you don't have a green card anymore.. so how does it work? would a cop believe a furriner he/she is a citizen just by word?

We were talking about that last night. My friend is ticked off about this new law because it's starting us down the slippery slope -- how will anyone prove their citizenship now?

This law has already affected people we know. The Spanish church that was meeting in our church has disbanded because they are afraid to put our church at risk due to the new law -- some of their congregation are undocumented. Ironically, due to a lawyer's mistake, the pastor was denied citizenship (after years and years of keeping his paperwork in order and being in the country legally) and is now out of status here. He and his family will be moving.

[pedroh 21]

that's a good question.. once you're a citizen, how do you prove someone you're a citizen? there's no citizen card, and you don't have a green card anymore.. so how does it work? would a cop believe a furriner he/she is a citizen just by word?

We were talking about that last night. My friend is ticked off about this new law because it's starting us down the slippery slope -- how will anyone prove their citizenship now?

This law has already affected people we know. The Spanish church that was meeting in our church has disbanded because they are afraid to put our church at risk due to the new law -- some of their congregation are undocumented. Ironically, due to a lawyer's mistake, the pastor was denied citizenship (after years and years of keeping his paperwork in order and being in the country legally) and is now out of status here. He and his family will be moving.

I can't see a fair way to prove citizenship that will not violate the privacy rights to 'foreign-us citizens'

[natty bumppo 289]

that's a good question.. once you're a citizen, how do you prove someone you're a citizen? there's no citizen card, and you don't have a green card anymore.. so how does it work? would a cop believe a furriner he/she is a citizen just by word?

We were talking about that last night. My friend is ticked off about this new law because it's starting us down the slippery slope -- how will anyone prove their citizenship now?

This law has already affected people we know. The Spanish church that was meeting in our church has disbanded because they are afraid to put our church at risk due to the new law -- some of their congregation are undocumented. Ironically, due to a lawyer's mistake, the pastor was denied citizenship (after years and years of keeping his paperwork in order and being in the country legally) and is now out of status here. He and his family will be moving.

I can't see a fair way to prove citizenship that will not violate the privacy rights to 'foreign-us citizens'

as a legal "foreign-us citizen" what have you not already divulged ... you did complete the required documentation ... (all 10 kg of paperwork) ... yes

[Cassie 8]

from one of the local TV stations:

Immigration Law Questions Answered

KOTV - 11/1/2007 4:55 PM - Updated 11/1/2007 6:20 PM

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=138993

Oklahoma’s new immigration reform law took effect on Thursday, November 1. Opponents of immigration reform are protesting, claiming local law enforcement now cannot be trusted. Police and Sheriff's deputies say the fears are unfounded, and only illegal immigrants doing illegal things need worry about the law. The News On 6’s Emory Bryan reports there has been so much misinformation about what will happen, some of it out of fear, some just plain confusion, because the law has not been clarified by the courts.

Employment opportunity is the big draw for immigrants, who can usually earn more in America than their home country. The new immigration law requires employers verify a new employees citizenship. That employer verification takes effect in July. After that, government agencies and private firms doing government work will have to verify their employees have a valid Social Security number. Existing federal law already says employers cannot knowingly hire illegal immigrants, but the state law requires the extra step of verification.

The new law requires an immigration status check on people who are under arrest. Some Hispanics worry anytime they encounter law enforcement they are subject to an immigration check, but police say only people without a drivers license need to worry. During a traffic stop, drivers without a license are typically arrested, and illegal immigrants are no exception. Law enforcement authorities say they will not check immigration status for routine matters like reporting crimes or helping police with information.

Some have questioned if a citizen could be arrested for simply driving an illegal immigrant in their car. The new law makes it a state crime to knowingly transport illegal immigrants, but it was already against federal law. The law does not apply to public transportation or to situations where the status is unknown. Lawyers say the law is intended to stop human trafficking and is likely to be enforced only against people trying to hide illegals.

That brings up the point of housing for illegals, some of whom claim they are being evicted from apartments because of the new law. The new immigration law prohibits sheltering illegal immigrants, but landlords are bound by federal laws that prohibit discrimination based on national origin. Even lawyers studying the issue say it is unclear who would enforce this section of the law by checking records of landlords.

The police and Sheriff's Office both said Thursday that nothing changed overnight in the way they enforce the laws, but some Hispanics worry about round ups and roadblocks, which deputies and police say is not going to happen.

[natty bumppo 289]

from one of the local TV stations:

Immigration Law Questions Answered

KOTV - 11/1/2007 4:55 PM - Updated 11/1/2007 6:20 PM

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=138993

The police and Sheriff's Office both said Thursday that nothing changed overnight in the way they enforce the laws, but some Hispanics worry about round ups and roadblocks, which deputies and police say is not going to happen.

if the person is legal ... what's the worry? legal persons do carry identification with proper documentation ... yes?

if you're not legal ... now is the time to leave.

[pedroh 21]

from one of the local TV stations:

Immigration Law Questions Answered

KOTV - 11/1/2007 4:55 PM - Updated 11/1/2007 6:20 PM

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=138993

The police and Sheriff's Office both said Thursday that nothing changed overnight in the way they enforce the laws, but some Hispanics worry about round ups and roadblocks, which deputies and police say is not going to happen.

if the person is legal ... what's the worry? legal persons do carry identification with proper documentation ... yes?

if you're not legal ... now is the time to leave.

is not about being legal or illegal.. but it's well known that the first people cops will pull are hispanics..

[Caladan 19]

from one of the local TV stations:

Immigration Law Questions Answered

KOTV - 11/1/2007 4:55 PM - Updated 11/1/2007 6:20 PM

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=138993

The police and Sheriff's Office both said Thursday that nothing changed overnight in the way they enforce the laws, but some Hispanics worry about round ups and roadblocks, which deputies and police say is not going to happen.

if the person is legal ... what's the worry? legal persons do carry identification with proper documentation ... yes?

if you're not legal ... now is the time to leave.

I do not normally carry my birth certificate with me, no. I am going to go to the gym right now and I won't have any ID on me at all.

pedroh's right that in practice this will lead to the assumption that 'Hispanic' equals illegal. And while VJ seems to use the 'won't bother me, I'm not Hispanic and neither is my spouse' standard, I'm not sure that stands up under the law.