"In following Jesus' example, I could not have fired my weapon at another human being, even if he were shooting at me"

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

It's not as if this guy was a conscript that was drafted into combat against his will.

Maybe he should have chosen a different career other than the military in the first place?

Maybe all he wanted was the government to pay for his education ... then quit when it became time to pay for the education.

Free West Point education and he suddenly objects when he's in a combat zone. How convenient. The Army kills people. Even Jesus knew that.

[natty bumppo 297]

It's not as if this guy was a conscript that was drafted into combat against his will.

Maybe he should have chosen a different career other than the military in the first place?

Maybe all he wanted was the government to pay for his education ... then quit when it became time to pay for the education.

Free West Point education and he suddenly objects when he's in a combat zone. How convenient. The Army kills people. Even Jesus knew that.

like I said ... schmuck

[Ban Hammer 14,582]

meanwhile ... taxpayers paid for his education ...

oh he'll get a surprise soon enough - a bill for that education.

he graduated from West Point in 2004 - so i think he's got a few more years of committment to pay off.

[natty bumppo 297]

meanwhile ... taxpayers paid for his education ...

oh he'll get a surprise soon enough - a bill for that education.

he graduated from West Point in 2004 - so i think he's got a few more years of committment to pay off.

I hope so .. and I hope he brought vaseline ,,, schmuck

[Saddle Bronc 124]

It's not as if this guy was a conscript that was drafted into combat against his will.

Maybe he should have chosen a different career other than the military in the first place?

Maybe all he wanted was the government to pay for his education ... then quit when it became time to pay for the education.

Free West Point education and he suddenly objects when he's in a combat zone. How convenient. The Army kills people. Even Jesus knew that.

Also notable that Jesus told soldiers certain codes of conduct--which did not include leaving the army because it has to do violence against nation's external enemies

Luke 3:14 (NIV) Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?" He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely—be content with your pay."

[DeadPoolX 9]

It's not as if this guy was a conscript that was drafted into combat against his will.

Maybe he should have chosen a different career other than the military in the first place?

Maybe all he wanted was the government to pay for his education ... then quit when it became time to pay for the education.

Free West Point education and he suddenly objects when he's in a combat zone. How convenient. The Army kills people. Even Jesus knew that.

It simply amazes me when some people willingly join the military and then are either surprised by the fact they may have to go into a combat zone or attempt to escape it! It's the damn military! You know... the place with tanks and jets and missiles? What do you think that stuff is for? Parades?

This actually reminds me of a debate my brother got into with a female friend of his. She said to him, "If we really cared about our soldiers, we wouldn't ask them to go to war." So my brother replied, "What would we ask them to do then? Paint houses?"

Sometimes I think a lot of guys go into the armed forces for only two reasons:

1. College tuition.

2. They think the uniform will "attract the chicks."

Having never been in the military, I can't say if #2 works or not (I'd say it depends on the woman), but I know quite a few people do join for #1. However, that wasn't the case in this situation. This guy was a commissioned officer -- he went to West Point! That is not an easy place to get into, so he had to have some idea of what he was signing up for when he said, "Yes, I want to be an officer in the U.S. Army."

I would hope he would've had some idea. West Point isn't your "average" four-year liberal arts university. When you get out, you don't go into the workforce or on to graduate school/medical school/law school (or possibly whatever else). You have the task of leading men and women through dangerous situations in equally dangerous places.

[Fandango 1,440]

If he found Jesus after he joined, well the army SHOULD let him out.......but he should reimburse the gov't for his education and every fricken dime we spent on him.

That education was conditional....not free.

[DeadPoolX 9]

If he is required to stay in the Army, then couldn't he transfered to some other position or post that wouldn't conflict with his apparent newfound religious ideals? For instance, some sort of "desk job" where his most dangerous weapon might be a stapler, instead of an M-16. He'd still be serving the U.S. Army (and therefore, the United States) in some capacity, just not on the front lines.

[Kevin and 10]

Just because Jesus said love your enemy, that doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. Religous people people would have to agree that Life is the greatest gift from god (which ever one). So wouldn't He/She want you to protect it?

[Caladan 19]

Religious people also believe in just wars and following your conscience. Iraq is not a just war, according to religiously-developed just war theory. If he believed he'd be liberating Iraqis and instead sees Abu Ghraib and hired mercenaries, he might wonder whether a Christian could serve in an institution engaged in an unjust conflict.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just because Jesus said love your enemy, that doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. Religous people people would have to agree that Life is the greatest gift from god (which ever one). So wouldn't He/She want you to protect it?

I think there's a difference between defending your life and shooting at a designated enemy.

In the recent Ken Burns documentary, an WW2 veteran described going into a building they had just bombed to find a German soldier injured on the floor, but sitting up. The German was speaking to the GI in German and raising his hand out to him...then he began to reach into his coat pocket. The GI instinctively struck the wounded German with the butt of his rifle, causing the arm of German to fling into the air along with some photos. The German soldier was going to show the GI pictures of his wife and family.

Edited October 17, 2007 by Mister Fancypants

[natty bumppo 297]

If he is required to stay in the Army, then couldn't he transfered to some other position or post that wouldn't conflict with his apparent newfound religious ideals? For instance, some sort of "desk job" where his most dangerous weapon might be a stapler, instead of an M-16. He'd still be serving the U.S. Army (and therefore, the United States) in some capacity, just not on the front lines.

Maybe latrine officer on the North Pole ??

[BJZags 17]

They say in combat many people find Jesus in the foxhole. Sounds like this guy was a little quicker and found Jesus before digging the foxhole. I'm all for religious conviction, but the timing of his "come to Jesus moment" is a little too convenient to pass my BS-test.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Religious people also believe in just wars and following your conscience. Iraq is not a just war, according to religiously-developed just war theory. If he believed he'd be liberating Iraqis and instead sees Abu Ghraib and hired mercenaries, he might wonder whether a Christian could serve in an institution engaged in an unjust conflict.

How can someone claim "this war is just; that war is not just" as if it's a factual statement? It seems to me it's based on opinion and on a wider scale, culture, norms, values, etc. What we each think is "just" or "right" may differ (sometimes dramatically so) depending on who we are, where we are and what we're doing at the time.

For anyone to claim there's such a thing as only one type of "just war" is ludicrous.

Just because Jesus said love your enemy, that doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. Religous people people would have to agree that Life is the greatest gift from god (which ever one). So wouldn't He/She want you to protect it?

I think there's a difference between defending your life and shooting at a designated enemy.

In the recent Ken Burns documentary, an WW2 veteran described going into a building they had just bombed to find a German soldier injured on the floor, but sitting up. The German was speaking to the GI in German and raising his hand out to him...then he began to reach into his coat pocket. The GI instinctively struck the wounded German with the butt of his rifle, causing the arm of German to fling into the air along with some photos. The German soldier was going to show the GI pictures of his wife and family.

So... what is this example supposed to show us? The German soldier made a dumb move. If the enemy has you in his sights, the very last thing you want to do is make a move that may be interpreted as a "hostile gesture." I'd say the German soldier was lucky the GI didn't shoot him.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Just because Jesus said love your enemy, that doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. Religous people people would have to agree that Life is the greatest gift from god (which ever one). So wouldn't He/She want you to protect it?

I think there's a difference between defending your life and shooting at a designated enemy.

In the recent Ken Burns documentary, an WW2 veteran described going into a building they had just bombed to find a German soldier injured on the floor, but sitting up. The German was speaking to the GI in German and raising his hand out to him...then he began to reach into his coat pocket. The GI instinctively struck the wounded German with the butt of his rifle, causing the arm of German to fling into the air along with some photos. The German soldier was going to show the GI pictures of his wife and family.

So... what is this example supposed to show us? The German soldier made a dumb move. If the enemy has you in his sights, the very last thing you want to do is make a move that may be interpreted as a "hostile gesture." I'd say the German soldier was lucky the GI didn't shoot him.

War is sh!t...period. In some cases it may be necessary, but it's never easy, clean, or black and white.