New Jersey Attorney General: Cops must ask suspects for immigration status effective immediately

[Ban Hammer 12,878]

"Don't worry, nervous rich people. We ask if the criminals are here illegally. Don't worry, victims. We won't arrest you for being illegal if you call us because you saw a shooting or your husband was beating your kid."

What does a person's economic status have to do with whether they should be concerned about crime by illegals, or crime in general? Do you have an issue with people who make more than you?

don't you know that poor people don't get nervous about crime?

[Caladan 19]

"Don't worry, nervous rich people. We ask if the criminals are here illegally. Don't worry, victims. We won't arrest you for being illegal if you call us because you saw a shooting or your husband was beating your kid."

What does a person's economic status have to do with whether they should be concerned about crime by illegals, or crime in general? Do you have an issue with people who make more than you?

don't you know that poor people don't get nervous about crime?

In my experience, the people most vocally worried about the immigrants invading seem to be upper middle class people who have little contact with actual immigrants and conclude that because they're poor or brown or Hispanic, they're criminal/going to outbreed white America/are the reason that the housing market failed/their dog died.

It seems that making a big deal about enforcing a pretty basic rule (check someone's ID when booking them on murder) is meant to appeal most to the law & order crowd, which tends to skew white, male, and well-off. It's a politician making an announcement -- you think it's not targetted to a specific base?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Don't worry, nervous rich people. We ask if the criminals are here illegally. Don't worry, victims. We won't arrest you for being illegal if you call us because you saw a shooting or your husband was beating your kid."

What does a person's economic status have to do with whether they should be concerned about crime by illegals, or crime in general? Do you have an issue with people who make more than you?

I think you're taking that statement rather more seriously than was intended...

In context however - specifically the shooting deaths in an area of known economic deprivation I think the point is fair... How many of you guys live in an area like Newark? Not too many I'd imagine... Yet whose voice of outrage has been the loudest on this issue... and indeed in these threads? People who live in deprived inner city areas or Suburban types who are least likely to encounter gang crime?

Edited August 23, 2007 by Number 6

[Ban Hammer 12,878]

"Don't worry, nervous rich people. We ask if the criminals are here illegally. Don't worry, victims. We won't arrest you for being illegal if you call us because you saw a shooting or your husband was beating your kid."

What does a person's economic status have to do with whether they should be concerned about crime by illegals, or crime in general? Do you have an issue with people who make more than you?

don't you know that poor people don't get nervous about crime?

In my experience, the people most vocally worried about the immigrants invading seem to be upper middle class people who have little contact with actual immigrants and conclude that because they're poor or brown or Hispanic, they're criminal/going to outbreed white America/are the reason that the housing market failed/their dog died.

It seems that making a big deal about enforcing a pretty basic rule (check someone's ID when booking them on murder) is meant to appeal most to the law & order crowd, which tends to skew white, male, and well-off. It's a politician making an announcement -- you think it's not targetted to a specific base?

interesting, white well off males tend to be law and order. i learned something new today. lemme pass those findings on to the enron crowd

[Caladan 19]

And in context, we had the head of Newark reassuring a mostly poor populace that they were more interested in crime than immigration status. I'd be willing to bet that outside of Newark, this was met with shock and alarm, so the AG reassures the suburbs that they check papers.

[GaryC 7]

I guess next time there's a shooting in Newark involving someone with a dodgy immigration history, people can blame ICE for failing to follow up on a tip rather than the local PD?

I trust noone missed the part where you have to have already committed the crime for your immigration status to be called into question...?

Indeed. Hasn't this already been policy, to check the immigration status of suspects in serious crimes? (If not, it seems to magically appear on the news all the time...)

No it wasn't. Thats how you get illegals with a long rap sheet. This is a good reaction to the mayor of Newark telling his police officers to not cooperate with immigration. This is something we have wanted. When someone is arrested to ascertain that persons status and then notify ICE if they are found to be illegal. It's a good first step. It magically appears on the news all the time because you get a repeat offender do something horrific before they find out what their status is. The average drunk driving or burglary arrest does not get media attention so their status isn't broadcast or found out by someone other than the cops.

[Caladan 19]

"Don't worry, nervous rich people. We ask if the criminals are here illegally. Don't worry, victims. We won't arrest you for being illegal if you call us because you saw a shooting or your husband was beating your kid."

What does a person's economic status have to do with whether they should be concerned about crime by illegals, or crime in general? Do you have an issue with people who make more than you?

don't you know that poor people don't get nervous about crime?

In my experience, the people most vocally worried about the immigrants invading seem to be upper middle class people who have little contact with actual immigrants and conclude that because they're poor or brown or Hispanic, they're criminal/going to outbreed white America/are the reason that the housing market failed/their dog died.

It seems that making a big deal about enforcing a pretty basic rule (check someone's ID when booking them on murder) is meant to appeal most to the law & order crowd, which tends to skew white, male, and well-off. It's a politician making an announcement -- you think it's not targetted to a specific base?

interesting, white well off males tend to be law and order. i learned something new today. lemme pass those findings on to the enron crowd

It's totally true. Basic demographics. White, upper class males tend to vote for candidates who are tough on crime and wax poetic about law and order. (Hence Guiliani's appeal, demographics on who watches 24, that sort of thing.)

That they don't care about crimes that people THEY know commit really doesn't change that basic fact about rhetorical appeal.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And in context, we had the head of Newark reassuring a mostly poor populace that they were more interested in crime than immigration status. I'd be willing to bet that outside of Newark, this was met with shock and alarm, so the AG reassures the suburbs that they check papers.

Indeed. Going out on a limb here and guessing that someone who lives in a high-crime areas (like Newark) is probably more interested in general law and order than illegal immigration. Like most things - your priorities tend to be dictated by your circumstances. Nothing wrong with appealing to priorities of people who live in a specific area. Also no suprise that this is met with scorn and derision by people with differing priorities...

[Logres 0]

[in my experience, the people most vocally worried about the immigrants invading seem to be upper middle class people who have little contact with actual immigrants and conclude that because they're poor or brown or Hispanic, they're criminal/going to outbreed white America/are the reason that the housing market failed/their dog died.

I think in fairness anyone who pays income tax in the US has a right to be vocal about illegal immigrants. I don't confess to know the figures, but I should think that the money spent in schooling/incarcerating illegal immigrants is rather large....... having said that I am male, white and from a middle class background

[Caladan 19]

[in my experience, the people most vocally worried about the immigrants invading seem to be upper middle class people who have little contact with actual immigrants and conclude that because they're poor or brown or Hispanic, they're criminal/going to outbreed white America/are the reason that the housing market failed/their dog died.

I think in fairness anyone who pays income tax in the US has a right to be vocal about illegal immigrants. I don't confess to know the figures, but I should think that the money spent in schooling/incarcerating illegal immigrants is rather large....... having said that I am male, white and from a middle class background

I do, too. But if we're talking about who an AG appeals to when they talk tough on crime, it's the upper classes. When they talk about community policing and building networks within the community, that's aimed towards people who aren't sure they can trust the cops.

[almaty 19]

the cost of incarceration of anyone in this country is large..close to $30,000 a year in tax payer $$$....

i do not have any issue with anyone getting an education here.....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I guess next time there's a shooting in Newark involving someone with a dodgy immigration history, people can blame ICE for failing to follow up on a tip rather than the local PD?

I trust noone missed the part where you have to have already committed the crime for your immigration status to be called into question...?

Indeed. Hasn't this already been policy, to check the immigration status of suspects in serious crimes? (If not, it seems to magically appear on the news all the time...)

No it wasn't. Thats how you get illegals with a long rap sheet. This is a good reaction to the mayor of Newark telling his police officers to not cooperate with immigration. This is something we have wanted. When someone is arrested to ascertain that persons status and then notify ICE if they are found to be illegal. It's a good first step. It magically appears on the news all the time because you get a repeat offender do something horrific before they find out what their status is. The average drunk driving or burglary arrest does not get media attention so their status isn't broadcast or found out by someone other than the cops.

I guess it depends on what constitutes a 'serious crime' for someone to have their status called into question.

Also I believe the only thing that the mayor said is that its not the responsibility of the police to do immigration enforcement work. He didn't explicitly tell his officers "not to cooperate". Which assumes of course that ICE and INS work well with local law enforcement to begin with..

[Caladan 19]

I guess next time there's a shooting in Newark involving someone with a dodgy immigration history, people can blame ICE for failing to follow up on a tip rather than the local PD?

I trust noone missed the part where you have to have already committed the crime for your immigration status to be called into question...?

Indeed. Hasn't this already been policy, to check the immigration status of suspects in serious crimes? (If not, it seems to magically appear on the news all the time...)

No it wasn't. Thats how you get illegals with a long rap sheet. This is a good reaction to the mayor of Newark telling his police officers to not cooperate with immigration. This is something we have wanted. When someone is arrested to ascertain that persons status and then notify ICE if they are found to be illegal. It's a good first step. It magically appears on the news all the time because you get a repeat offender do something horrific before they find out what their status is. The average drunk driving or burglary arrest does not get media attention so their status isn't broadcast or found out by someone other than the cops.

I dunno. A friend of mine got in a car crash and they were able to learn pretty quickly that the woman was illegal and driving without a license and insurance, so I'm gonna guess that the cops figured out her immigration status. There's a question of what they do with that information, but figuring out who the person is often means figuring out whether they're illegal.

[Logres 0]

I do, too. But if we're talking about who an AG appeals to when they talk tough on crime, it's the upper classes. When they talk about community policing and building networks within the community, that's aimed towards people who aren't sure they can trust the cops.

I wasn't commenting on whether politicians are aiming their policies at certain demographics, I was merely pointing out that middle class white people have genuine reasons to feel strongly about illegal immigrants in their own country.

As for your point on whether politicians tell people what they want to hear...... I would think that is intrinsic in any representative deomcracy. Agreed.

[thesnowman 1]

I do, too. But if we're talking about who an AG appeals to when they talk tough on crime, it's the upper classes. When they talk about community policing and building networks within the community, that's aimed towards people who aren't sure they can trust the cops.

I wasn't commenting on whether politicians are aiming their policies at certain demographics, I was merely pointing out that middle class white people have genuine reasons to feel strongly about illegal immigrants in their own country.

As for your point on whether politicians tell people what they want to hear...... I would think that is intrinsic in any representative democracy. Agreed.

I agree that anyone who pays there taxes has the right complain and feel strongly about illegal immigration. However I feel that middle white America would be more scared of those nasty immigrants that some white business man doing some financial fiddling and ruining thousands of peoples lives (ie Enron).

Illegal immigration is a problem, and having spent a significant amount of time and money getting over here and feel that just as much as other people on this boards. I also agree with Gary that if you are arrested and they have any suspicion of being in the country illegally they should notify INS. In fact most of the information is out there, its just in different databases, its just needs to be linked up.

However in saying that I think this immigration problem is smaller than people make it out to be. The media pounce on it and then only show news stories about it. There are more pressing concerns for this country than try to demonize immigrants (legal and illegal). We have genocide happening in Africa, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, collapsing housing market, failing health care system and increasing poverty in this country. Its all smoke and mirrors, fixate on a problem in one area so that no one realizes there is something more important going on elsewhere.

As Bill Hicks use to say "we are the puppet people, we see it on our tv its true"