N400 RFI - US Born Parent

[chiggins82 88]

Hi there, It's been a while since I've posted anything, but I've run into a snag with my N400 and curious of any similar experiences or advice:

 

I applied for N400 and had my interview. In the interview, I was asked if my parents were both born in Canada (where I was born) and always lived in Canada - My dad was born in the US, so I replied: My father was born in the US, he never applied for US Citizenship for himself. he never held a US passport and he is now deceased.

 

The interviewer said that he couldn't approve me because he thought I might be entitled for citizenship through my dad. He said to give him a little time and he would update. 

 

I just received an RFI for my father's birth certificate and marriage certificate.

 

Everything I have read on USCIS and here tells me I do not qualify to become a US citizen through my parent because he did not request it before I turned 18 and because he did not meet the residency requirement (he moved when he was a child).

 

I think I might be able to get the birth certificate, but I do recall him looking into this once long ago and saying that he could only get a birth certificate if he knew where he was baptized and he dropped it. I don't know if I can acquire a marriage certificate and frankly don't get why it's applicable?

 

I'm planning to call in and see if I can get more info, but what do I do if I can't get these items? I need to get my response in by June 3 and very worried it's not possible to even acquire the docs at all let alone in that time.

 

 

[OldUser 6,878]

It sounds like you need to convince USCIS you're not a US citizen by descent.

 

Perhaps a lawyer can help building the response? You need some proof your dad moved to Canada as a child, attended school etc and wasn't eligible to transfer citizenship to you.

[chiggins82 88]

I'm really hoping I don't have to get a lawyer involved, but I might have to. 

 

I don't have a way that I can think of to prove my father doesn't meet the residency requirements. He's deceased and I don't have any of his records from his childhood. Even in looking to see if I can get his birth certificate according to the New York State health department, I may not be entitled to it either. 

 

They're asking for his marriage certificate and I have no idea if I can get that either. I don't even get why that would be applicable here at all.

 

The crazy thing about it is when I had my interview the interviewer said I would get approved no matter what. He just had to double check that I could naturalize on this path (his words). Now I feel like I might get denied because I can't meet the RFI requirement. 😭

[OldUser 6,878]

2 hours ago, chiggins82 said:

I'm really hoping I don't have to get a lawyer involved, but I might have to. 

 

I don't have a way that I can think of to prove my father doesn't meet the residency requirements. He's deceased and I don't have any of his records from his childhood. Even in looking to see if I can get his birth certificate according to the New York State health department, I may not be entitled to it either. 

 

They're asking for his marriage certificate and I have no idea if I can get that either. I don't even get why that would be applicable here at all.

 

The crazy thing about it is when I had my interview the interviewer said I would get approved no matter what. He just had to double check that I could naturalize on this path (his words). Now I feel like I might get denied because I can't meet the RFI requirement. 😭

Well, unfortunately it's not an easy case. You actually have to do some legwork and get the documents required. Besides looking at website, did you do anything else to get the paperwork? I'm surprised you're not entitiled to get documents pertaining your deceased father. You're an immediate relative after all. What about your mother? Is she still alive? Can she help with any of this paperwork?

Edited May 1 by OldUser

[chiggins82 88]

6 minutes ago, OldUser said:

Well, unfortunately it's not an easy case. You actually have to do some legwork and get the documents required. Besides looking at website, did you do anything else to get the paperwork? I'm surprised you're not entitiled to get documents pertaining your deceased father. You're an immediate relative after all. What about your mother? Is she still alive? Can she help with any of this paperwork?

 

I'm checking with my mom. They divorced 20 years ago, so she isn't sure what she has, but she said she remembers that he didn't have a birth certificate when they got married and they used a baptismal certificate instead and she is certain she wouldn't have that. The thing is I didn't apply to become a citizen through my dad, I married a US citizen and moved on a K1 and have been a permanent resident for 9 years. My father never held a  US passport, and doesn't meet the residency requirement (5 years residing in US, 2 years after the after of 14) and I'm over 18. With the birth certificate I need to have a valid reason to request it and the reasons to provide don't include immigration or child requesting, but I'll pick something that's close enough and fax them my RFE as evidence. 

 

I'm waiting to hear from a tier II person on this, because even if I get these documents (which I don't know if I can), my bigger worry is they deny my N400 through marriage/residency and say I have to apply as a child of a US parent and then it's denied because of the reasons above. Got to love that they were fine to approve my K1, Green Card, etc. My dad's country of birth is on my birth certificate and the application.

 

 

[OldUser 6,878]

Your father having or not having US passport doesn't change the fact he was a US citizen. Because he was a US citizen, USCIS is trying to establish whether your should go N-400 or N-600 route. The fact you got visa, Green Card doesn't mean USCIS won't doubt their prior decisions. They may be thinking you were granted your visa and GC in mistake, whereas you may be already a citizen.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this but the burden of proof is always on you whenever seeking any immigration benefit from US government.

[OldUser 6,878]

9 minutes ago, chiggins82 said:

 

My father never held a  US passport, and doesn't meet the residency requirement (5 years residing in US, 2 years after the after of 14) and I'm over 18.

That's pretty much what you need to prove documentally to get N-400 approved. Otherwise, USCIS will think you should go N-600 route (which you also need to prove). If you cannot prove either, you cannot get US passport.

[Family 4,025]

You can obtain a copy of dad’s birth certificate without any issue. Just send in  your original birth cert , his original death certificate and follow instructions in link for NY.

 

Same applies to getting his Social Security Earnings Record ( will show no record found ) a DOS FOIA ( will show no US passports ) .

 

As his records from Canada , do a quick google search , though I am confident you will be able to get his marriage cert and other paper trails of his existence . Add that to details /letters from family , friends that pinpoint his life in Canada from childhood 
 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/services/birth-death-records-birth.page

[OldUser 6,878]

15 minutes ago, chiggins82 said:

Got to love that they were fine to approve my K1, Green Card, etc.

USCIS always revisits prior decisions when granting new benefits. Just because something was approved before doesn't mean it will get easily approved later in the process. Cases similar to yours is the reason I always shake my head whenever somebody says N-400 is the easiest part of becoming a US citizen.

Edited May 1 by OldUser

[chiggins82 88]

7 minutes ago, Family said:

You can obtain a copy of dad’s birth certificate without any issue. Just send in  your original birth cert , his original death certificate and follow instructions in link for NY.

 

Same applies to getting his Social Security Earnings Record ( will show no record found ) a DOS FOIA ( will show no US passports ) .

 

As his records from Canada , do a quick google search , though I am confident you will be able to get his marriage cert and other paper trails of his existence . Add that to details /letters from family , friends that pinpoint his life in Canada from childhood 
 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/services/birth-death-records-birth.page

I got stuck here: 

 

None of these apply to me and these are the acceptable forms to prove I can be sent the document....I tried clicking through but I get stopped because Child isn't on the list when it asks my relationship to the person. I'll have to call and find out because I agree it seems like I should be entitled to this?

 

6 minutes ago, OldUser said:

USCIS always revisits prior decisions when granting new benefits. Just because something was approved before doesn't mean it will get easily approved later in the process. Your case is a reason I always shake my head whenever somebody says N-400 is the easiest part of becoming a US citizen.

 

I hear you there, it was relatively smooth sailing until now. Even the officer who interviewed me made it seem like it was no big deal, he just wanted to "double check" I wasn't already a citizen. He said to give him a day or two. 2 months later...

 

Hopefully the Tier II calls me and we can sort it out, I just worry that they won't listen to me.

[Family 4,025]

Well, get unstuck . The link clearly shows your relationship to the deceased qualifies. Print out the forms , include originals , read instructions carefully….usually a prepaid postage return envelope is required/

 

Hopefully , you get in a better mindset…toll up your sleeves and do the work. Process is not a waste of time , rather in place to insure some extraordinary benefits .

 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/services/birth-death-records-birth.page

The following relations can request the birth certificate of a deceased person:

• Spouse
• Domestic partner
• Parent (if the deceased was 18 or younger) 
• Child
• Sibling
• Niece/Nephew
• Aunt/Uncle
• Grandchild
• Grandniece/Grandnephew
• Great grandchild

To request the certificate, submit:

• A Birth Certificate Application (PDF)
• A Family Tree/Link to Decedent (PDF)
  Other Languages:  Español | Русский | 繁體中文 | 简体中文 | Kreyòl ayisyen | 한국어 | বাংলা | Italiano | Polski | ײִדיש | العربية | Français | اردو
• If the person died in NYC, a copy of the death certificate or the death certificate number
• If the person died outside NYC, the original death certificate
• A check or money order payment of $15 for each copy of the certificate
• A legible copy of your valid, unexpired photo identification

Orders can only be made by mail.

[chiggins82 88]

1 minute ago, Family said:

Well, get unstuck . The link clearly shows your relationship to the deceased qualifies. Print out the forms , include originals , read instructions carefully….usually a prepaid postage return envelope is required/

 

Hopefully , you get in a better mindset…toll up your sleeves and do the work. Process is not a waste of time , rather in place to insure some extraordinary benefits .

 

https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/services/birth-death-records-birth.page

 

The following relations can request the birth certificate of a deceased person:

• Spouse
• Domestic partner
• Parent (if the deceased was 18 or younger) 
• Child
• Sibling
• Niece/Nephew
• Aunt/Uncle
• Grandchild
• Grandniece/Grandnephew
• Great grandchild

To request the certificate, submit:

• A Birth Certificate Application (PDF)
• A Family Tree/Link to Decedent (PDF)
  Other Languages:  Español | Русский | 繁體中文 | 简体中文 | Kreyòl ayisyen | 한국어 | বাংলা | Italiano | Polski | ײִדיש | العربية | Français | اردو
• If the person died in NYC, a copy of the death certificate or the death certificate number
• If the person died outside NYC, the original death certificate
• A check or money order payment of $15 for each copy of the certificate
• A legible copy of your valid, unexpired photo identification

Orders can only be made by mail.

This is New York City, My dad was not born there (NY State is separate). the screen shot above doesn't say parent and when I try to apply, it requires I select from a list for my relationship to the person and child is not there. I picked father instead in case I read that wrong and the next screen it pre-filled my info as my dad's father..... so.... yeah I online form is indicating I cannot order it. Like I said above I'll have to call.

 

 I don't know why you would assume I just don't want "roll up my sleeves". My previous post stated that I already tried to order the birth certificate and the site stopped me indicating I'm not eligible and my family doesn't have it. So far I haven't seen that I am entitled to order copies of marriage certificates either.

 

They have all the evidence for my N400, the problem is the officer who interviewed me thought I might qualify for N600 and now wants evidence for that, but I don't qualify for.

[OldUser 6,878]

8 minutes ago, chiggins82 said:

They have all the evidence for my N400, the problem is the officer who interviewed me thought I might qualify for N600 and now wants evidence for that, but I don't qualify for.

Officer is not going to investigate your eligibility. As nice and polite as he may have sounded on the day of interview, I can bet $10 he's not going to do anything. RFE was issued and if you do not reply in time your case will go towards denial. Do as much as you can - call places, go to relevant institutions in person and speak to people, hire attorney if needed, work with mother. Get and submit as much evidence as you can. Do not think what is the bare mininum. Think what is the maximum you can get.

It's your case after all. Good luck and keep us updated!

Edited May 1 by OldUser

[Family 4,025]

50 minutes ago, chiggins82 said:

This is New York City, My dad was not born there (NY State is separate). the screen shot above doesn't say parent and when I try to apply, it requires I select from a list for my relationship to the person and child is not there. I picked father instead in case I read that wrong and the next screen it pre-filled my info as my dad's father..... so.... yeah I online form is indicating I cannot order it. Like I said above I'll have to call.

 

 I don't know why you would assume I just don't want "roll up my sleeves". My previous post stated that I already tried to order the birth certificate and the site stopped me indicating I'm not eligible and my family doesn't have it. So far I haven't seen that I am entitled to order copies of marriage certificates either.

 

They have all the evidence for my N400, the problem is the officer who interviewed me thought I might qualify for N600 and now wants evidence for that, but I don't qualify for.

Not everything can be done online . ..send in request by mail

. 

Having a copy of such request and email of correspondence w relevant government entities ( US and Canadian) will give you the opportunity to get an extension of RFE if delays beyond your control . 
 

I get you are frustrated..but it’s misplaced . 
 

Worst case scenario, you reapply for N-400 when you have gathered docs .

Still less expensive than paying attorney to slam dunk on first try

 

[JKLSemicolon 414]

3 hours ago, chiggins82 said:

I got stuck here: 

 

None of these apply to me and these are the acceptable forms to prove I can be sent the document.

One option on that list is going through an attorney, which as @OldUser said in the first reply could be useful anyway given the nature of the situation.