I-864: Unusual income situation; filing during tax season

[iwannaplay54 985]

13 hours ago, elgrandedoodel said:

Thanks @Boiler understood. I guess I meant that we'd be adding a joint sponsor halfway through the entire process. But sounds like that's not a problem.

You never mention a joint sponsor with the I130.  The two are different issues.

[ElGrandeDoodel 37]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:16 PM, pushbrk said:

For the bottom section the fellowship contract itself and a current pay stub are all you need. The contract explains the source and amount.  The pay stub evidences payment.  Keep it simple.

Hi @pushbrk, would appreciate your thoughts on the following which relates to your guidance quoted above. Thank you!

We're about to file the I-864, and are characterising the fellowship position as employment and the fellowship organisation as the employer.

 

The I-864 notes give the following examples of evidence of current income:
 

Quote

For example, you may include a recent letter from your employer, showing your employer’s address and telephone number, and indicating your annual salary. You may also provide pay stubs showing your income for the previous six months.

On this basis, we're proposing to provide a letter in the stated format and the pay stubs as evidence.

My question relates to the "paystubs". The fellowship income is not paid directly like a salary - Sponsor invoices the organisation, and those invoices are paid.

The thing most closely resembling a paystub is in the form below - this is a screenshot from the bill.com payment portal through which the payments are administered.

Do you think this will suffice as a "paystub" for NVC purposes? If not, should we provide something else in addition to the letter from the fellowship organisation?

Many thanks, as always, for your help.

 

  

[pushbrk 12,285]

If no federal taxes are withheld, it seems more like self employment.  Are you an employee or not?

 

Employees don't need both a letter and a recent pay stub (singular).  Just the recent pay stub will do.  The self employed demonstrate current income with a tax return.  This needs to be clear to me before I make a further recommendation.

[ElGrandeDoodel 37]

Thanks for the quick response @pushbrk, appreciate it.

11 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

If no federal taxes are withheld, it seems more like self employment.  Are you an employee or not?

No federal taxes are withheld on the payments.
Sponsor's status is more nuanced than simply employee vs self-employed:

• Sponsor is an employee of the company they founded on a zero dollar contact of employment.
• Current income is paid by the fellowship organisation by virtue of sponsor's fellowship.
• Sponsor is not an employee of the fellowship organisation.
• No federal income tax is withheld on payments from the fellowship organisation.

Quote

The self employed demonstrate current income with a tax return.

I had understood that tax returns were used to demonstrate past income, but that other evidence is used to demonstrate current income - is that not the case when it comes to self employed individuals? Given where we are in tax season, the most recent tax return available is nowhere near "current" because it pertains to the 2021 tax year.

[pushbrk 12,285]

3 hours ago, elgrandedoodel said:

Thanks for the quick response @pushbrk, appreciate it.

No federal taxes are withheld on the payments.
Sponsor's status is more nuanced than simply employee vs self-employed:

• Sponsor is an employee of the company they founded on a zero dollar contact of employment.
• Current income is paid by the fellowship organisation by virtue of sponsor's fellowship.
• Sponsor is not an employee of the fellowship organisation.
• No federal income tax is withheld on payments from the fellowship organisation.

I had understood that tax returns were used to demonstrate past income, but that other evidence is used to demonstrate current income - is that not the case when it comes to self employed individuals? Given where we are in tax season, the most recent tax return available is nowhere near "current" because it pertains to the 2021 tax year.

Yes, it's nuanced.  The sponsor is both employed and self employed but the bulk of the income is from self employment.  Therefore, their "current income" would come from the most recently filed tax return.  That tax return is 2021 today, but it is not too early to file the 2022 return.  You COULD claim the stipend as "current income" using the contract, but it would be a judgement call by a Consular Officer.  

 

On the other hand, if the "employee" income is sufficient, you're golden.  Sounds like it's not though.

 

For regular self employment, revenue is only revenue not income, until it appears on a tax return.

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by pushbrk

[ElGrandeDoodel 37]

Thanks for working through this with me @pushbrk.

 

1 hour ago, pushbrk said:

The sponsor is both employed and self employed but the bulk of the income is from self employment.  Therefore, their "current income" would come from the most recently filed tax return.

OK, let's ignore the "employee" income for now then. If we're filing on the basis that sponsor is self employed and "current income" comes from the most recently-filed (2021) tax return, how does that work in practical terms for the form? The current individual annual income figure under Part 6 Question 7 is the same as the Most Recent Total Income figure under Part 6 Question 24.a.? Yet another wrinkle here is that for tax year 2021, Sponsor was not self employed - all income for that year was as an employee.

 

1 hour ago, pushbrk said:

You COULD claim the stipend as "current income" using the contract, but it would be a judgement call by a Consular Officer.

Is there a reason you favour using the contract over using a letter from the fellowship organisation which confirms the appointment as fellow and the value of the stipend? My (admittedly ignorant) sense is that the letter is very simple - literally four sentences which succinctly explain the situation - whereas the contract is many pages long with the stipend value buried deep in there. I defer to your experience though.

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Another possible line of attack here is to rely on sponsor's assets rather than income. She has in excess of the minimum required to sponsor a spouse in a total household size of two people, which I believe is 3 times 125% of HHS Poverty Guidelines, so just under $70k. These are dollar-denominated cash assets held in savings accounts, so should satisfy the liquidity and ease of access requirements for sponsorship.

 

The guidance in the I-864 notes on proving cash assets are pretty scant. So, if we go down this route:

1. What documentation is customary to submit for evidence of assets held in cash in savings accounts? The guidance in the notes ("the owner of the asset must include a description of the asset, proof of ownership, and the basis for the owner’s claim of its net cash value") doesn't seem to apply to this class of asset.
2. If we're relying on assets in lieu of current income, should we leave the current income figure as zero? Or, as a belt and suspenders approach, include both current income on the basis we've been discussing above and the assets?  

 

[pushbrk 12,285]

3 hours ago, elgrandedoodel said:

Thanks for working through this with me @pushbrk.

 

OK, let's ignore the "employee" income for now then. If we're filing on the basis that sponsor is self employed and "current income" comes from the most recently-filed (2021) tax return, how does that work in practical terms for the form? The current individual annual income figure under Part 6 Question 7 is the same as the Most Recent Total Income figure under Part 6 Question 24.a.? Yet another wrinkle here is that for tax year 2021, Sponsor was not self employed - all income for that year was as an employee.

 

Is there a reason you favour using the contract over using a letter from the fellowship organisation which confirms the appointment as fellow and the value of the stipend? My (admittedly ignorant) sense is that the letter is very simple - literally four sentences which succinctly explain the situation - whereas the contract is many pages long with the stipend value buried deep in there. I defer to your experience though.

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Another possible line of attack here is to rely on sponsor's assets rather than income. She has in excess of the minimum required to sponsor a spouse in a total household size of two people, which I believe is 3 times 125% of HHS Poverty Guidelines, so just under $70k. These are dollar-denominated cash assets held in savings accounts, so should satisfy the liquidity and ease of access requirements for sponsorship.

 

The guidance in the I-864 notes on proving cash assets are pretty scant. So, if we go down this route:

1. What documentation is customary to submit for evidence of assets held in cash in savings accounts? The guidance in the notes ("the owner of the asset must include a description of the asset, proof of ownership, and the basis for the owner’s claim of its net cash value") doesn't seem to apply to this class of asset.
2. If we're relying on assets in lieu of current income, should we leave the current income figure as zero? Or, as a belt and suspenders approach, include both current income on the basis we've been discussing above and the assets?  

 

Yes, the simpler letter and the closest thing you have to a pay stub for the stipend will do nicely.  That combined with the liquid assets should do nicely in this situation.  I would file the 2022 tax return though now.  It will be needed by interview time anyway.