Practical Reality for K1's to receive UNCONDITIONAL perm residency is *4* Years?!?

[TinTin and Samby 11]

Hello to All!

After reading for several weeks about the AOS process for K-1s, I have the following thoughts. Can anyone validate this or help me understand the faultiness of my analysis? Thanks!

K1 visa is issued and beneficiary travels to USA (Day 1). Wedding occurs, as required, within 90 days. Let's say it is on Day 60 for this example. Newlyweds file for AOS 15 days later, Day 75. The entire sequence of events for AOS follows (biometrics, medical/Immunization, interview, name check, etc). AOS is finally approved 20 months later (longer than some, earlier than others) and Permanent Residency card ("Green Card") is issued (Day 683). Since the "Green Card" is issued less than 2 years after the marriage, it is issued as a CONDITIONAL Permanent Residency card. Now, starts another 2 year clock (actually 1 year, 9 months) that will require the couple to return once again to file to have conditional status removed. Conditions removed and (non conditional) Permanent Resdency is granted (Day 1413). 1413 days / 365 days per year = *3.9* YEARS!!!!!!

The whole problem with this situation lies in the 2 year wait that is required to remove the conditional nature of an **ISSUED** Conditional Permanent Residency card. This is another example of the government not taking responsibility for impacts to customers (us!) for their inefficiencies and processing backlogs.

So, now onto my main point:

If the INITIAL Permanant Residency Card ("Green Card") is issued 24 months or more from the date of the marriage, then that INITIAL "Green Card" will be issued without conditions. Hence, no need to later file for removal of conditions.

Given this and the pragmatic reality of processing times and delays (Name Check, FBI Clearance, normal backlog, etc), wouldn't the more prudent course of action be to WAIT to file the AOS until one is reasonably certain that 2 years from the date of Marriage will have elapsed by the time the AOS is approved and the Permanent Residency card is issued. Using the above example again, marriage occurs on Day 60, but AOS is not filed until 6 months after the wedding (Day 243). The AOS is processed (using same 20 month timeframe as the above example) and the initial (and only) Permanent Residence card is issued on Day 851, 851 days / 365 days per year = *2.3* Years.

It seems to me this is analogous to the AGING OUT problem of K2/K4 children due to extended delays in processing by INS. The solution there was to implement a change to use the age of the child at date of application, not at date of issuing the visa. I do not understand why in this situation, if an initial Conditional Permanent Residency card was issued, the date of the Marriage is not used to determine when application can be made to remove the conditional status. As it stands now, it is the date of the initial issued Conditional Permanent Residency card that is used, which due to delays in processing time, could be well more than 24 months after the wedding, causing the K-1 beneficiary to be in CONDITIONAL Permanent Residency status longer than the 2 years "advertised" by the INS.

The only downside I can see to waiting to file the AOS is that because there is no EAD, there would be no possibility of working (for wages - of course, volunteering is still available for the social and cultural benefits) for the beneficiary during the waiting time between marriage and the filing of the AOS (or 3-4 months after filing to allow for processing time of the EAD).

I certainly am no expert!!! Like all of us, I am just trying to learn as much about these processes as possible so my sweetheart and I can make the best choices for us. Your sharing of thoughts, experiences and knowledge in this VJ forum have been and will continue to be crucial for our continuing journey! Thanks to all!

-Samby

[Dr_LHA 3]

Err... where did you get the 20 month figure for AOS exactly? Sure some people can take that long, but that's far from the norm. The current average according to the VJ stats page is 140 days, so less than 5 months.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

So if you wait 6 months before filing for AOS in the hope that you will be married for 2 years + at the time of the interview... what will you do if you are approved without interview after just 3 months???? or you are approved at interview within 5 - 6 moths.....

If you wanted to be sure to get a 10 year greencard you would have to wait about 1 year and 8 months after your wedding to file for AOS.... would you really want your wife/husband to be out of status for that long... not being able to work because of no EAD and having nothing to prove thay are here legally??? not being able to travel out of the US even in an emergency??? Health insurance may ask for evidence of legal status... you would have none... unable to have a state ID or drivers license because you have no evidence of legal status...

if you dont want to have to file to remove conditions then maybe a K1 is not the visa for you.... maybe you should get married abroad and then wait about 18 months and file for a K3 or IR1....

My entire AOS took 181 days.... and it is faster now than it was then....

Kez

Edited July 15, 2007 by Niagaenola

[Dr_LHA 3]

if you dont want to have to file to remove conditions then maybe a K1 is not the visa for you.... maybe you should get married abroad and then wait about 18 months and file for a K3 or IR1....

[misa 2]

If you wanted to be sure to get a 10 year greencard you would have to wait about 1 year and 8 months after your wedding to file for AOS.... would you really want your wife/husband to be out of status for that long... not being able to work because of no EAD and having nothing to prove thay are here legally??? not being able to travel out of the US even in an emergency??? Health insurance may ask for evidence of legal status... you would have none... unable to have a state ID or drivers license because you have no evidence of legal status...

Some (housing) rental agencies also require proof of immigration status even if the immigrant is only listed as an occupant.

Don't some border states also have checkpoints where they check people's IDs and immigration status (if applicable)?

[Minya's wife 24]

Since the "goal" for most immigrants is (or should be) Naturalization, i.e. citizenship, then the 4 years to reveive unconditional permanent residency should does not matter much in the long run. If you get residency in 4 years, then only one year later, you're eligible to apply for citizenship....still right on track.

[Dr_LHA 3]

Since the "goal" for most immigrants is (or should be) Naturalization, i.e. citizenship, then the 4 years to reveive unconditional permanent residency should does not matter much in the long run. If you get residency in 4 years, then only one year later, you're eligible to apply for citizenship....still right on track.

I'm not sure why the goal of people getting LPR should be citizenship. Not everyone wants US citizenship, I know plenty of people here as permenant residents who have no interest in citizenship. I myself have mixed feelings about the idea, as I don't necessarily plan on being in the USA for the rest of my life and if I'm not I certainly don't want to burden myself with the necessity of filing US tax returns for the rest of my life despite where I might be living.

[GabachaYucateca 0]

The only reason our goal is citizenship is because we don't want to remain in the US forever. I don't want to go through all of this, decide to go back to Mexico, and then have my husband lose his residency because of abandonment. I can't imagine not having the option to return for vacation or retirement with my husband.

[Magnolia31 0]

Hello to All!

After reading for several weeks about the AOS process for K-1s, I have the following thoughts. Can anyone validate this or help me understand the faultiness of my analysis? Thanks!

K1 visa is issued and beneficiary travels to USA (Day 1). Wedding occurs, as required, within 90 days. Let's say it is on Day 60 for this example. Newlyweds file for AOS 15 days later, Day 75. The entire sequence of events for AOS follows (biometrics, medical/Immunization, interview, name check, etc). AOS is finally approved 20 months later (longer than some, earlier than others) and Permanent Residency card ("Green Card") is issued (Day 683). Since the "Green Card" is issued less than 2 years after the marriage, it is issued as a CONDITIONAL Permanent Residency card. Now, starts another 2 year clock (actually 1 year, 9 months) that will require the couple to return once again to file to have conditional status removed. Conditions removed and (non conditional) Permanent Resdency is granted (Day 1413). 1413 days / 365 days per year = *3.9* YEARS!!!!!!

The whole problem with this situation lies in the 2 year wait that is required to remove the conditional nature of an **ISSUED** Conditional Permanent Residency card. This is another example of the government not taking responsibility for impacts to customers (us!) for their inefficiencies and processing backlogs.

So, now onto my main point:

If the INITIAL Permanant Residency Card ("Green Card") is issued 24 months or more from the date of the marriage, then that INITIAL "Green Card" will be issued without conditions. Hence, no need to later file for removal of conditions.

Given this and the pragmatic reality of processing times and delays (Name Check, FBI Clearance, normal backlog, etc), wouldn't the more prudent course of action be to WAIT to file the AOS until one is reasonably certain that 2 years from the date of Marriage will have elapsed by the time the AOS is approved and the Permanent Residency card is issued. Using the above example again, marriage occurs on Day 60, but AOS is not filed until 6 months after the wedding (Day 243). The AOS is processed (using same 20 month timeframe as the above example) and the initial (and only) Permanent Residence card is issued on Day 851, 851 days / 365 days per year = *2.3* Years.

It seems to me this is analogous to the AGING OUT problem of K2/K4 children due to extended delays in processing by INS. The solution there was to implement a change to use the age of the child at date of application, not at date of issuing the visa. I do not understand why in this situation, if an initial Conditional Permanent Residency card was issued, the date of the Marriage is not used to determine when application can be made to remove the conditional status. As it stands now, it is the date of the initial issued Conditional Permanent Residency card that is used, which due to delays in processing time, could be well more than 24 months after the wedding, causing the K-1 beneficiary to be in CONDITIONAL Permanent Residency status longer than the 2 years "advertised" by the INS.

The only downside I can see to waiting to file the AOS is that because there is no EAD, there would be no possibility of working (for wages - of course, volunteering is still available for the social and cultural benefits) for the beneficiary during the waiting time between marriage and the filing of the AOS (or 3-4 months after filing to allow for processing time of the EAD).

I certainly am no expert!!! Like all of us, I am just trying to learn as much about these processes as possible so my sweetheart and I can make the best choices for us. Your sharing of thoughts, experiences and knowledge in this VJ forum have been and will continue to be crucial for our continuing journey! Thanks to all!

-Samby

We filed for AOS in April and in June after finding out my husband got orders to go to Iraq, we went to an infopass appointment to get things expedited. A week after this infopass apointment (June 12), we received our appointment letter for biometrics (July 5) ... On June 22, we received out AOS interview date for July 11. I received my letter in the mail on friday stating I got approved and would get my green card within a few weeks.

Where are you getting these long time frames from? LOL

Now in the past, it took a long time to get a GC but so much has changed. When I did a renewal in 97, it took me a year and a half to get my new card. However, I did have a temporary one that they allowed me to use until the one came. Incase you are confused LOL, I was a previous GC holder. I left the US for 4 years though so now had to start from scratch.

[Magnolia31 0]

So if you wait 6 months before filing for AOS in the hope that you will be married for 2 years + at the time of the interview... what will you do if you are approved without interview after just 3 months???? or you are approved at interview within 5 - 6 moths.....

If you wanted to be sure to get a 10 year greencard you would have to wait about 1 year and 8 months after your wedding to file for AOS.... would you really want your wife/husband to be out of status for that long... not being able to work because of no EAD and having nothing to prove thay are here legally??? not being able to travel out of the US even in an emergency??? Health insurance may ask for evidence of legal status... you would have none... unable to have a state ID or drivers license because you have no evidence of legal status...

if you dont want to have to file to remove conditions then maybe a K1 is not the visa for you.... maybe you should get married abroad and then wait about 18 months and file for a K3 or IR1....

My entire AOS took 181 days.... and it is faster now than it was then....

Kez

Just wanted to say one thing: Not all states require legal status in order to get insurance or a state ID. I got my ID about 2 weeks ago and they never asked me if I had legal status. I showed them my German passport and birth certificate, as well as my SSN.

With health insurance, once we were married, that was all they were concerned about. :-)

[Magnolia31 0]

If you wanted to be sure to get a 10 year greencard you would have to wait about 1 year and 8 months after your wedding to file for AOS.... would you really want your wife/husband to be out of status for that long... not being able to work because of no EAD and having nothing to prove thay are here legally??? not being able to travel out of the US even in an emergency??? Health insurance may ask for evidence of legal status... you would have none... unable to have a state ID or drivers license because you have no evidence of legal status...

Some (housing) rental agencies also require proof of immigration status even if the immigrant is only listed as an occupant.

Don't some border states also have checkpoints where they check people's IDs and immigration status (if applicable)?

Really? I never heard of that. No one ever questioned me in the past when I got an apartment. All of my employers in the past never asked to see my GC either. I guess they all assumed I was American. Strange!

As for the border states .... well, I remember in 2000 we drove from El Paso Texas to Ruidoso, New Mexico for a weekend trip. They had a checkpoint right on the border and they did ask to see my ID. This happened on the way there and on the way back. I found it weird because New Mexico and Texas are both in the same country LOL.

[Dr_LHA 3]

The only reason our goal is citizenship is because we don't want to remain in the US forever. I don't want to go through all of this, decide to go back to Mexico, and then have my husband lose his residency because of abandonment. I can't imagine not having the option to return for vacation or retirement with my husband.

A fine reason for citizenship. I'm just taking issue with the idea that getting Citizenship must be the ultimate aim for all people applying for Green Cards.

However you say you don't want to stay in the USA forever, however did you know that if you become a US citizen you will be required to file taxes every year with the IRS, regardless of whether you live in the USA. The USA is the only first world country to have this requirement of its citizens.

[Magnolia31 0]

Since the "goal" for most immigrants is (or should be) Naturalization, i.e. citizenship, then the 4 years to reveive unconditional permanent residency should does not matter much in the long run. If you get residency in 4 years, then only one year later, you're eligible to apply for citizenship....still right on track.

I'm not sure why the goal of people getting LPR should be citizenship. Not everyone wants US citizenship, I know plenty of people here as permenant residents who have no interest in citizenship. I myself have mixed feelings about the idea, as I don't necessarily plan on being in the USA for the rest of my life and if I'm not I certainly don't want to burden myself with the necessity of filing US tax returns for the rest of my life despite where I might be living.

I agree with you there. When i did leave the US in 2002, it was a good thing that I was not a US citizen because I would have never received all the wonderful benefits that you get in Germany. My daughter's father abandoned us back then and I did not receive any help from the government here in the US because of me being a German citizen and not having enough working quarters. I was basically forced back to Germany. Being that I don't know with 100% certainty what my future holds, if I were to return back to Germany because I have no other choice, I would still want to get my benefits. This isn't the only reason but I just feel a bit unsure about becoming naturalized.

[Magnolia31 0]

The only reason our goal is citizenship is because we don't want to remain in the US forever. I don't want to go through all of this, decide to go back to Mexico, and then have my husband lose his residency because of abandonment. I can't imagine not having the option to return for vacation or retirement with my husband.

A fine reason for citizenship. I'm just taking issue with the idea that getting Citizenship must be the ultimate aim for all people applying for Green Cards.

However you say you don't want to stay in the USA forever, however did you know that if you become a US citizen you will be required to file taxes every year with the IRS, regardless of whether you live in the USA. The USA is the only first world country to have this requirement of its citizens.

Ugh, my brother is going through that! He is American but lives with my mom in Germany. He works over there but has to pay taxes to the Germans and the US. Crazy.

[Dr_LHA 3]

Ugh, my brother is going through that! He is American but lives with my mom in Germany. He works over there but has to pay taxes to the Germans and the US. Crazy.

I read an article about US citizens who had moved permenantly to the UK recently. Apparently a large number of them have actually forfeited their US citizenship because of this. An amazing step really, but the ridiculous situation of double taxation made it hard for them to make ends meet.

The US expects foriegners working here to pay taxes, it should not expect its citizens living abroad to have to pay double.