Senate resuscitates immigration bill

[poppscc 0]

What race baiting? Nobody said anything about race.

you've certainly referred hate and bigotry on a few occasions; what exactly were you referring to???

this is a forum, there is no need to present politically correct opinions or clever word play to avoid the topic. There's no reason to label people on this board as hateful just because they dont have the same opinion.

I'd like to see a discussion on this topic, but blanket labeling is getting a little out of control.

Edited June 27, 2007 by poppscc

[Jenn! 918]

There are people on VJ who want another Holocaust. They're just not on OT....

Will not take bait....will not take bait...

[mawilson 2,133]

Who said we had to? There would hardly be enough jobs for all of them either. I'm not exactly how you took my comment about no visa being available for unskilled workers to mean we have to open immigration for everyone and anyone.

As far as I care, the visa should be capped at the number of jobs that we have open in the US for that type of worker and or they should already have a contract to work when applying for the visa.

And what do you do with those who choose to ignore the visa caps and come here anyway?

Or will they magically disappear overnight as soon as a "guest program" is implemented?

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

I say simply round them up deport them and make them enter LEGALLY AFTER PAYING FINES AND PENALTIES FOR THEIR ACTIONS

who... all the illegals?? oh yea i've forgot that for you ALL illegals are thiefs, murders, rapists etc.. and no, I won't say some members of VJ are bigots.. but you ARE ONE of those hating bigots.. I won't forget those posts you wrote.. nope..

about the employent issue.. the conditions of workplaces didnt start when the illegals arrived to the USA.. it sure didn't help, but it wasnt the catalyst for it... read Fast Food Nation.. that started way before the illegals massively arrived, how the beef processing plants starting firing skilled workers for replaceable low payed Americans who just had to do 'simple labor' (of course, non-stopping simple labor).. so yea ET-US2004, this isn't Manchester.. but I still don't buy that without the illegals those plants are gonna pay more and treat them better.. they didn't do it before, I don't think they're gonna do it now..

I am not racist o r a bigot, I believe those who commit criminal acts should be made to pay the price, if their 1st act on USA soil is that of criminal defiance, or if their disregard of the border & immigration laws compromises the safety & Security of our nation resulting in terrorist activities , or if their Illegal presence lack of Health insurance, lack of contributing to School systems & Hospitals lowers safety and education standard of our community, or if they drive illegally without insurance jeapordising legal LAW ABIDING CITZENS/ RESIDENTS Then THEY SHOULD BE DEPORTED

AND THAT IS WHO I DIRECT MY COMMENTS. You break they LAw you pay tghe price.

Those who advocate Amnesty or think these Criminal Leeches should not have to face up to the crimes they commit should leave the USA because you do Not support nor advocate prosparity or security of our nation.

The $$ These ILLEGAL CRIMINALS Cost USA each year is upwards of 10 Billion, i will galdly pay more for strawberries or Lettuce in order to not have to pay for some Illegal that does n't carry health or Auto insutrance Contributes 0, NOTHIBNG to the systems they steal from, because we are already paying for it in supporting these Illegal; CRIMINAL LEECHES

[Dan J 277]

Who said we had to? There would hardly be enough jobs for all of them either. I'm not exactly how you took my comment about no visa being available for unskilled workers to mean we have to open immigration for everyone and anyone.

As far as I care, the visa should be capped at the number of jobs that we have open in the US for that type of worker and or they should already have a contract to work when applying for the visa.

And what do you do with those who choose to ignore the visa caps and come here anyway?

Or will they magically disappear overnight as soon as a "guest program" is implemented?

Thats where the rest of it comes in, enforcement. If there is a legal way to get in, and you don't use it, see ya.

I've never said enforcement isn't part of the solution, but as the only solution, its just like drug enforcement. It may be illegal, and we spend billions every year enforcing it, but you can still walk down the street and buy drugs. With immigration, I don't see how it would be any different.

[mawilson 2,133]

I am not racist o r a bigot, I believe those who commit criminal acts should be made to pay the price

Addie,

Even if you're not, your deliberate use of "screaming" capitalization

(FEDERAL ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALIENS, DRUNK DRIVING MURDERING THIEVING LEECHES)

conveys the emotionality of your messages which may be seen by others as an indication of hatred.

[natty bumppo 297]

Some things are just not a laughing matter.

The fact that you were lecturing Alex on the holocaust sure is...

Rey ...

there are others here who also have very strong feelings, personal ties, and extensive knowledge of that time period. Some people even have ties that go back to the late 1800’s … early 1900’s Russian pogroms. Many other people have had entire branches of their family tree obliterated.

I consider equating illegal aliens (invaders of a sovereign country) being denied amnesty and being returned to their home country nowhere near the atrocious nature of those Pogroms.

That was a bad choice.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who said we had to? There would hardly be enough jobs for all of them either. I'm not exactly how you took my comment about no visa being available for unskilled workers to mean we have to open immigration for everyone and anyone.

As far as I care, the visa should be capped at the number of jobs that we have open in the US for that type of worker and or they should already have a contract to work when applying for the visa.

And what do you do with those who choose to ignore the visa caps and come here anyway?

Or will they magically disappear overnight as soon as a "guest program" is implemented?

Thats where the rest of it comes in, enforcement. If there is a legal way to get in, and you don't use it, see ya.

I've never said enforcement isn't part of the solution, but as the only solution, its just like drug enforcement. It may be illegal, and we spend billions every year enforcing it, but you can still walk down the street and buy drugs. With immigration, I don't see how it would be any different.

That goes back to what said earlier. For all this talk of enforcement I'd be interested to know exactly 'how' we're going to go about identifying, investigating and prosecuting employers. Isn't to say its a bad idea - far from it - but people have to be realistic about the possibilities here. I just don't see how an amnesty in some form or another won't be inevitable.

Edited June 27, 2007 by erekose

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am not racist o r a bigot, I believe those who commit criminal acts should be made to pay the price

Addie,

Even if you're not, your deliberate use of "screaming" capitalization

(FEDERAL ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALIENS, DRUNK DRIVING MURDERING THIEVING LEECHES)

conveys the emotionality of your messages which may be seen by others as an indication of hatred.

Agreed. Its generally considered bad manners.

[mybackpages 0]

just thought ... without legal entry documentation ... how do you prove time of entry ?

Leases, school records, utility bills, things like this.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm sorry to fixate here, but I'm appalled that anyone can go around trumpeting about law-breaking who admits to having committed a serious crime that has killed so many people and does not seem to feel bad. It seems like your morals are based on not only what is legal but what is currently en vogue to be enforced. Your moral system does not extend beyond the laws of the US, does it?

With all due respect you have no idea what my moral system is. Even though it is none of your damn business I will tell you that I gave up drinking 25 years ago. I am not proud of the mistakes I made in my youth and they have not been repeated. I grew up. Seems that some here haven't.

But do you think you should be legally held to account for stuff you did 25 years ago?

That isn't the question and we are not going to take that detour. I have shown that most of them break laws every day while they are here. Instead of discussing that some here resort to personal attacks. I find that interesting.

So in case you missed my question to Steven I will ask it again.

Do you deny that working without EAD is a crime? Do you deny that evading federal and state income taxes is a crime? Do you deny that evading Medicare taxes is a crime? Do you deny that evading SS taxes is a crime? Do you deny that using a fake SSN is a crime? Do you deny that using a stolen SSN is a crime?

If you admit these are crimes then by your own words they should be prosicted. If you don't think they are crimes I invite you to ask the IRS about it.

They're not the 'same' crime though. You're an illegal immigrant once - unless you leave and come back the same way. Anything else you do is secondary, and therefore separate. BTW - not all illegals do those secondary things, and its been pointed out before that you can pay taxes without an SSN.

lets try it again.

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who

(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or

(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or

(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc...25----000-.html

Every day that goes by is a continuation of breaking that part of the law. It isn't a one time thing. Even without that working without EAD is also a crime that they commit every day they go to work.

I'm sure if you look harder you can find some specific caveats to that particular clause which don't rely on your subjective interpretation. The obvious question I would ask is where, exactly, are you likely to meet "immigration officers"?

No response to this I see...

[natty bumppo 297]

just thought ... without legal entry documentation ... how do you prove time of entry ?

Leases, school records, utility bills, things like this.

was it "really" the person? do you really need to be there to have these bills / records ?

[Dan J 277]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

I say simply round them up deport them and make them enter LEGALLY AFTER PAYING FINES AND PENALTIES FOR THEIR ACTIONS

who... all the illegals?? oh yea i've forgot that for you ALL illegals are thiefs, murders, rapists etc.. and no, I won't say some members of VJ are bigots.. but you ARE ONE of those hating bigots.. I won't forget those posts you wrote.. nope..

about the employent issue.. the conditions of workplaces didnt start when the illegals arrived to the USA.. it sure didn't help, but it wasnt the catalyst for it... read Fast Food Nation.. that started way before the illegals massively arrived, how the beef processing plants starting firing skilled workers for replaceable low payed Americans who just had to do 'simple labor' (of course, non-stopping simple labor).. so yea ET-US2004, this isn't Manchester.. but I still don't buy that without the illegals those plants are gonna pay more and treat them better.. they didn't do it before, I don't think they're gonna do it now..

I am not racist o r a bigot, I believe those who commit criminal acts should be made to pay the price, if their 1st act on USA soil is that of criminal defiance, or if their disregard of the border & immigration laws compromises the safety & Security of our nation resulting in terrorist activities , or if their Illegal presence lack of Health insurance, lack of contributing to School systems & Hospitals lowers safety and education standard of our community, or if they drive illegally without insurance jeapordising legal LAW ABIDING CITZENS/ RESIDENTS Then THEY SHOULD BE DEPORTED

AND THAT IS WHO I DIRECT MY COMMENTS. You break they LAw you pay tghe price.

Those who advocate Amnesty or think these Criminal Leeches should not have to face up to the crimes they commit should leave the USA because you do Not support nor advocate prosparity or security of our nation.

The $$ These ILLEGAL CRIMINALS Cost USA each year is upwards of 10 Billion, i will galdly pay more for strawberries or Lettuce in order to not have to pay for some Illegal that does n't carry health or Auto insutrance Contributes 0, NOTHIBNG to the systems they steal from, because we are already paying for it in supporting these Illegal; CRIMINAL LEECHES

Besides the fact that how you wrote that makes you look like what you say you not.

I support amnesty because i see it as the only way we can continue to prosper (removing them would likely have a negative economic effect) and bring better security to the nation, by making sure everyone here and everyone who comes in is documented (without getting too big brotherish).

Some illegal immigrants to pay taxes to a system that they will never benefit from. And no matter what, illegal immigrants still pay sales taxes in the states that have it. True, not all of them pay taxes, but there are also citizens who purposely avoid paying taxes or try to get away with paying less than the owe.

40 million American Citizens don't have health insurance, because its too expensive or they opt not to get it. You will also probably find that overall, the majority of those committing violent crime are also citizens or LPR's.

Although i doubt your cost figure is correct, since you haven't quoted any source. But we have spent over $400 billion in Iraq since we started the conflict there and what has that gotten us? A country much less stable than it was before we got there.

[mybackpages 0]

just thought ... without legal entry documentation ... how do you prove time of entry ?

Leases, school records, utility bills, things like this.

was it "really" the person? do you really need to be there to have these bills / records ?

Just like everything with immigration, you have to show evidence that proves your case to USCIS. I think its a matter of the totality of the documents not just having some documents.

[Dan J 277]

Who said we had to? There would hardly be enough jobs for all of them either. I'm not exactly how you took my comment about no visa being available for unskilled workers to mean we have to open immigration for everyone and anyone.

As far as I care, the visa should be capped at the number of jobs that we have open in the US for that type of worker and or they should already have a contract to work when applying for the visa.

And what do you do with those who choose to ignore the visa caps and come here anyway?

Or will they magically disappear overnight as soon as a "guest program" is implemented?

Thats where the rest of it comes in, enforcement. If there is a legal way to get in, and you don't use it, see ya.

I've never said enforcement isn't part of the solution, but as the only solution, its just like drug enforcement. It may be illegal, and we spend billions every year enforcing it, but you can still walk down the street and buy drugs. With immigration, I don't see how it would be any different.

That goes back to what said earlier. For all this talk of enforcement I'd be interested to know exactly 'how' we're going to go about identifying, investigating and prosecuting employers. Isn't to say its a bad idea - far from it - but people have to be realistic about the possibilities here. I just don't see how an amnesty in some form or another won't be inevitable.

Agreed.