TX Gov. Perry: Allow concealed handguns everywhere.

[patiently_waiting 0]

You should always treat a weapon as thought it is loaded until you can do a condition check and insure there is no live ammo in the chamber. Extreme caution is the best way to go!

You mean people shouldn't twirl them on their finger?

And now even kittens are 'arming up.'

LOL. Only if they are a cowboy in western movie.

[natty bumppo 297]

You should always treat a weapon as thought it is loaded until you can do a condition check and insure there is no live ammo in the chamber. Extreme caution is the best way to go!

You mean people shouldn't twirl them on their finger?

And now even kittens are 'arming up.'

LOL. Only if they are a cowboy in western movie.

Hollywood ... only in a hollywood western.

This one is hunting mice .... doesn't want to get its paws dirty.

[JayJay 4]

Wow - this thread really took off huh? No surprises there!

Seriously though, I dunno...with all of this: "I should be ALLOWED to carry a weapon" stuff going on, it makes me think of medieval Europe, where carrying a longsword in the market was commonplace, because in medieval times, it was quite commonplace for someone with a grudge against you to come along and stab you in the nuts, per se, or even challenge you to a dual. Thank goodness *she says with a wry smile* that we've moved on from that - about 1000 years on.

Now in my opinion - and this comes from a bloody long history over here of having the p*ss taken out of my being "British", I think that giving a gun to someone in Switzerland would pretty obviously not lead to more deaths, specifically because European people (and others) spent HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of years fighting the ####### out of one another before settling down and realizing, that actually, peace is a lot better than carrying your longsword in the market. (Which, when one thinks about it could result in a nasty foot wound if you miss your sheath.)

We here in the beautiful country of America (now that is NOT sarcastic - it IS beautiful over here - look at the mountains, deserts, canyons, lovely forests. It's a beautiful country.) are a YOUNG culture. There's no point being all teenaged about it (as a culture, that is) and saying "no we're not, we're an adult culture, we are!!". We're a young culture, and let's admit it - we don't have anything on some of the other countries in the world when it comes to the terrible outcomes of war - we just don't know. Sure, there have been wars America have been involved with, but believe me when I say that many of the countries in the rest of the world have been through thousands of times as much war as America has - that is simply fact. As a result their cultures have been changed and shaped. That's another fact.

Now let's get real - if we want to grow as a culture, we need to get LESS violent. I don't care how much money we have as a country (or national debt, for that matter), if we want to grow and get more civilized, the last thing we ought to be doing is making it easier for people to own things specifically designed to kill. A car, as others mentioned, is not specifically designed to kill.

Also let's look at it from this point of view: guns and death should be LAST resorts - not something dished out in bravado as part of some kind of game. It's not a game to kill someone, whether or not they are in your back yard when they shouldn't be. If you think you can kill burglar John and feel perfectly unaffected and fine afterward, you're wrong - taking that life will change your life, and affect you for the rest of your life. Ask any police officer - killing, even if it's perfectly legal, is not a simple thing. It's not the same as playing "James Bond" on your XBox. It's not like being in a movie. It's not like being in a battle of being a real life "Lord of the Rings" character.

Even people who have concealed weapons perfectly legally and know the capacity of gun violence ought to be able to see, intelligent as they are, that changing gun laws won't put us forward as a young culture - simply backward. We are a very young culture - decisions we make now, like the ones you and I made at school at the equivalent human age, will affect us the rest of our cultural days. And let us not forget that there are people with concealed weapons licenses who aren't good people, and who do end up killing others, "law-abiding" as they may seem on the surface.

[homesick_american 1]

You should always treat a weapon as thought it is loaded until you can do a condition check and insure there is no live ammo in the chamber. Extreme caution is the best way to go!

My dad's guns are usually loaded with a chambered round. I think he shouldn't do that, but it's not up to me.

[homesick_american 1]

Wow - this thread really took off huh? No surprises there!

Seriously though, I dunno...with all of this: "I should be ALLOWED to carry a weapon" stuff going on, it makes me think of medieval Europe, where carrying a longsword in the market was commonplace, because in medieval times, it was quite commonplace for someone with a grudge against you to come along and stab you in the nuts, per se, or even challenge you to a dual. Thank goodness *she says with a wry smile* that we've moved on from that - about 1000 years on.

Now in my opinion - and this comes from a bloody long history over here of having the p*ss taken out of my being "British", I think that giving a gun to someone in Switzerland would pretty obviously not lead to more deaths, specifically because European people (and others) spent HUNDREDS and THOUSANDS of years fighting the ####### out of one another before settling down and realizing, that actually, peace is a lot better than carrying your longsword in the market. (Which, when one thinks about it could result in a nasty foot wound if you miss your sheath.)

We here in the beautiful country of America (now that is NOT sarcastic - it IS beautiful over here - look at the mountains, deserts, canyons, lovely forests. It's a beautiful country.) are a YOUNG culture. There's no point being all teenaged about it (as a culture, that is) and saying "no we're not, we're an adult culture, we are!!". We're a young culture, and let's admit it - we don't have anything on some of the other countries in the world when it comes to the terrible outcomes of war - we just don't know. Sure, there have been wars America have been involved with, but believe me when I say that many of the countries in the rest of the world have been through thousands of times as much war as America has - that is simply fact. As a result their cultures have been changed and shaped. That's another fact.

Now let's get real - if we want to grow as a culture, we need to get LESS violent. I don't care how much money we have as a country (or national debt, for that matter), if we want to grow and get more civilized, the last thing we ought to be doing is making it easier for people to own things specifically designed to kill. A car, as others mentioned, is not specifically designed to kill.

Also let's look at it from this point of view: guns and death should be LAST resorts - not something dished out in bravado as part of some kind of game. It's not a game to kill someone, whether or not they are in your back yard when they shouldn't be. If you think you can kill burglar John and feel perfectly unaffected and fine afterward, you're wrong - taking that life will change your life, and affect you for the rest of your life. Ask any police officer - killing, even if it's perfectly legal, is not a simple thing. It's not the same as playing "James Bond" on your XBox. It's not like being in a movie. It's not like being in a battle of being a real life "Lord of the Rings" character.

Even people who have concealed weapons perfectly legally and know the capacity of gun violence ought to be able to see, intelligent as they are, that changing gun laws won't put us forward as a young culture - simply backward. We are a very young culture - decisions we make now, like the ones you and I made at school at the equivalent human age, will affect us the rest of our cultural days. And let us not forget that there are people with concealed weapons licenses who aren't good people, and who do end up killing others, "law-abiding" as they may seem on the surface.

Uh...ok. I don't agree with all of that.

Go to the York city center on any Thursday, Friday, or Saturday night and see how peaceful those people are who are beating the cr@p out of each other. Don't be naive and say that British people don't carry weapons around with them. They do. It's harder for Brandon McChav-erson to get his hands on a gun (it'd cost the entire week's giro) so he carries his mum Kylie's kitchen knife instead. Stab-tastic!

Don't take this personally, but very little irritates me more than the self-satisfied smugness of Europeans thinking they've somehow 'matured' and 'moved on' from war. I can't think of a continent that has fought more wars or soaked its soil in more blood or made more human beings absolutely, utterly miserable over stupid sh!t than Europe has. Europe's lack of tolerance and inability to hold its wad is why the United States exists.

Plus, the last major conflict involving western Europe only ended 60 years ago. I think it's a bit early for Europe to get too smug about finally shaking the war monkey off its back. Europe has had periods of peace and stability in its history longer than 60 years before war erupted again like a wart on the end of its nose...so let's not go counting our chickens, hmm? Also, if western Europe manages to avoid war for 60, 100, 200, etc. years it will be purely for economic reasons, not for something as lofty as peace. Europe, particularly the United Kingdom, took a long time to recover from World War II. In fact, in some ways, the UK was still recovering in the 70s and 80s, and the Brits rationed for nearly ten years after the war was over. There are people alive today who remember the deprivation and the hard times, which is the MAIN reason why you've avoided war up to now and why you'll continue to avoid it in the near future.

Also, Europe has continued to stick its nose in world affairs just like the US has, and some European countries that have an incomprehensible reputation for being pacifists have been involved in, and are still involved in, brutal oppression and wars around the world. More mature? Puh-leeze.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think that's a fair assessment. We did after all go in with the US on the Iraq war, which despite a lot of general opposition there must have been some fairly strong support for. Need only look at the UK tabloids to see not only the general nationalistic ranting that goes on, but that conflicts like WW2 are mythologised and even romanticised by a certain section of the population (thinking here of the photoshopped pictures of soccer players made up to look like WW2 soldiers that came out during Euro '96).

[homesick_american 1]

I think that's a fair assessment. We did after all go in with the US on the Iraq war, which despite a lot of general opposition there must have been some fairly strong support for. Need only look at the UK tabloids to see not only the general nationalistic ranting that goes on, but that conflicts like WW2 are mythologised and even romanticised by a certain section of the population (thinking here of the photoshopped pictures of soccer players made up to look like WW2 soldiers that came out during Euro '96).

Exactly. I'm not trying to bash Europe here...western Europe in particular is peaceful and prosperous, for the moment. Let's hope that continues, but let's also not kid ourselves. It's completely unrealistic to say that Europe is too 'mature' for war. No country is. Just look at what ancient Mesopotamia, i.e. Iraq, has become. That sort of shoots down the 'old civilizations are too mature/advanced for war' argument.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think that's a fair assessment. We did after all go in with the US on the Iraq war, which despite a lot of general opposition there must have been some fairly strong support for. Need only look at the UK tabloids to see not only the general nationalistic ranting that goes on, but that conflicts like WW2 are mythologised and even romanticised by a certain section of the population (thinking here of the photoshopped pictures of soccer players made up to look like WW2 soldiers that came out during Euro '96).

Exactly. I'm not trying to bash Europe here...western Europe in particular is peaceful and prosperous, for the moment. Let's hope that continues, but let's also not kid ourselves. It's completely unrealistic to say that Europe is too 'mature' for war. No country is. Just look at what ancient Mesopotamia, i.e. Iraq, has become. That sort of shoots down the 'old civilizations are too mature/advanced for war' argument.

Well historically speaking there were several quite different civilisations running things in that part of the world over the last several thousand years - it wasn't ever continuous. The lack of political stability in that part of the world is really the reason why many of the countries over there haven't moved on and modernised in the same way that Europe has, and is really the root cause of a lot of the current problems.

Incidentally the country that holds the record for the longest period of continuous civilisation is actually China.

[slim 1,533]

Forgive me for not reading all the posts. As a law enforcement officer I must say that I am apalled. (sp) Last thing I want is to have to be concerned about is if the person I am having contact with, or their family members that are present, having a concealed weapon. That could cost me my life. Not to mention that it would allow people who want to be "cops" to carry guns and who knows what they may actually do. This guys is nuts! I don't know what he is smoking, but it has really clouded his judgement. So many lives would be put at risk. How many poeple would mistakenly be given permits that shouldn't have? We already know that the system for gun permit checks doesn't work or VA Tech wouldn't have happened. This really blows my mind.

What kind of LEO are you? A parking meter attendant?

The VA shooter wasn't in the system for a "gun permit" check. He simply bought a gun from a gunstore. That's not even close to the same thing. I find it appalling (sp) that you, as a "LEO" would be against concealed carry "permits." Every credible study out there suggests that the only consequence of increasing the number of "legal gun permits" and those carrying guns "LEGALLY!" is a decrease in violent crime.

Don't take this personally, but very little irritates me more than the self-satisfied smugness of Europeans thinking they've somehow 'matured' and 'moved on' from war. I can't think of a continent that has fought more wars or soaked its soil in more blood or made more human beings absolutely, utterly miserable over stupid sh!t than Europe has. Europe's lack of tolerance and inability to hold its wad is why the United States exists.

When I first read through this, I thought; "what about Africa?" Then I got to the "over stupid sh!t" part, and started laughing in agreement. At least Africa has oil and diamonds (and timber, zinc, copper, and just about anything else you can think of that would make a greedy person kill millions of others) to blame for their wars.

[homesick_american 1]

Well historically speaking there were several quite different civilisations running things in that part of the world over the last several thousand years - it wasn't ever continuous. The lack of political stability in that part of the world is really the reason why many of the countries over there haven't moved on and modernised in the same way that Europe has, and is really the root cause of a lot of the current problems.

Don't tell the anti-American Europeans that; they think it's all our (the USA's) fault. Don't burst their bubble!

Incidentally the country that holds the record for the longest period of continuous civilisation is actually China.

Yep, I've heard that too. Too bad their government sucks.

[homesick_american 1]

When I first read through this, I thought; "what about Africa?" Then I got to the "over stupid sh!t" part, and started laughing in agreement. At least Africa has oil and diamonds (and timber, zinc, copper, and just about anything else you can think of that would make a greedy person kill millions of others) to blame for their wars.

Well, I think what Europe fights over is stupid anyway. The people doing the fighting might disagree.

[slim 1,533]

When I first read through this, I thought; "what about Africa?" Then I got to the "over stupid sh!t" part, and started laughing in agreement. At least Africa has oil and diamonds (and timber, zinc, copper, and just about anything else you can think of that would make a greedy person kill millions of others) to blame for their wars.

Well, I think what Europe fights over is stupid anyway. The people doing the fighting might disagree.

Yeah, they never fight over gold or oil or anything like that. (At least, not with each other.) They just slap each other with a gloved hand and say "I challenge you to a duel!"

[Otto 83]

What kind of LEO are you? A parking meter attendant?

Wondered the same thing...

[homesick_american 1]

When I first read through this, I thought; "what about Africa?" Then I got to the "over stupid sh!t" part, and started laughing in agreement. At least Africa has oil and diamonds (and timber, zinc, copper, and just about anything else you can think of that would make a greedy person kill millions of others) to blame for their wars.

Well, I think what Europe fights over is stupid anyway. The people doing the fighting might disagree.

Yeah, they never fight over gold or oil or anything like that. (At least, not with each other.) They just slap each other with a gloved hand and say "I challenge you to a duel!"

More like "You're the wrong religion/ethnic group. NOW YOU DIE!" Sectarian violence exists to this day in 'civilized' Europe.

[JayJay 4]

Oh, I do apologize... I had no idea I'd offended anyone by simply disliking guns. I didn't mean to insinuate that Europe was permanently at peace, like some uber-alien race - and I am not anti American - but funny you should say that, because in my experience, the moment you disagree with anything considered "intrinsically American" in this country, you get name called or worse.

I will sit here like a good little foreigner and be quiet now.

*had a bad day*